Decent MAME Spinner?

[Fozzy The Bear]

I have it figured like so:

1" knob with 1" wheel = 1:1 rotation
1" knob with 10" wheel = 10 encoder wheel rotations per 1 knob rotation.

No Craig.... The encoder wheel is on the same shaft as the knob..... There's no gear ratio to calcluate here. 
1" knob with 1" wheel = 1:1 rotation
1" knob with 10" wheel = 1:1 rotation
1"knob with 200foot wheel still =1:1 rotation.

and in reply to your other question, No the mouse board I found to be a good one had no manufacturer marks on it. Although I still have the box for it and that just says PC Compatible classic scroll mouse PS2.  You might be able to get the manufacturer from the technical support address they included on the box. http://technical.philex.com   also try:  http://www.philexproducts.com/mice_and_accessories.html

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[spystyle]

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[RandyT]

I have it figured like so:

1" knob with 1" wheel = 1:1 rotation

1" knob with 10" wheel = 10 encoder wheel rotations per 1 knob rotation.

Craig, you are off base here, or at least are presenting your thoughts in a very misleading way.  1 revolution of the knob always equals one revolution of the encoder wheel.  The sizes, more likely than not, have more to do with the ability of an individual (or laser cutter) to create the number of "teeth" in the selected medium and do it accurately.  If the minimum size aperture you can create is .100" , then it stands to reason that a 72 aperture encoder will need to have a circumference of (72 x 2) x .1 or 14.4".  If I still remember my geometry, that comes out to a diameter of a little over 4 1/2".

However, if you use the same pitch on a larger diameter, you will obviously be increasing the resolution of the wheel, and sending more data per revolution.  But the ratio will always be 1:1.

The problems come when you use very fast movements with slow mouse circuitry, or exceed the original aperture count (resolution) of the mouse encoder.  If you are looking for mice to hack, look for ones that claim to be "high-resolution", and stick with newer ones rather than some very old junker from the dark ages.

And while projects like this one can be fun, unless you have a lot of time on your hands and very little money, you may find that end result is a little disappointing based on the effort required to do it.  Those who place value on their time will likely want to look for a different solution.

FWIW,
RandyT

I see Julian also chimed in.  Too slow again

[spystyle]

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[RandyT]

Thanks for helping with the math!

No problem.

This project is in keeping with the spirit of the forum.

Absolutely.  And FWIW, I wasn't even suggesting my own products.  eBay is a great source for usually inexpensive spinners that can be used with MAME with the proper interface / mouse hack.  At minimum wage, the do-it-yourself spinner would probably cost $35 in labor plus parts.  For not too much more than that, one can get a well-used, but functional true arcade spinner, which would probably be much nicer at the end of the day.  It won't be up to par with some of the latest commercial offerings, but still better than homebrew.

There are also less time-intensive ways to make encoder wheels than trying to cut one by hand.  Laser transparencies and so on.  Even using the original encoder from the mouse could be a far better solution.  The mouse encoder will normally be higher res than you can cut by hand and take up much less space.  It will also already be the right size for the geometry of the sensor layout.  One of the most interesting methods I saw for doing this was drilling a hole centered in the end of the spinner shaft that was just large enough for the shaft of the mouse encoder to go into. 

and you don't yet offer an "eco" spinner

I'll have to think about that one.  I have seen at least one person put the ceiling at $40, so I'm not sure what can be done there.  People tend to expect far more in terms of durability and performance from a commercial product than one they build themselves, so it may not be possible to do it in a way to make people happy with the result.

RandyT

*edit to address your edit*

BTW: It is not admirable to dissuade people from "building their own arcade controls" in a forum called "build your own arcade controls"

I'm not trying to "dissuade" anyone from anything.  But I do know the quality of the end results from these endeavors because I have done every one of them myself.  I wasted a lot of time on these types of projects and was never happy with the results.  Even when done well, they are mostly sub-par performers when finished.  It's important that this is noted when presenting this type of project (especially one as ancient in premise) so that new individuals do not have unreasonable expectations on the return for the time they invest and walk away from the hobby in frustration. 

As I said, it can be a fun project to do just for sake of doing it.  But there are other methods of getting from A to B that may have a better return for far less investment.  And that does not automatically mean you have to purchase a "plug and go product" either.

[spystyle]

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[RandyT]

Why bother building anything at all when you can buy it?

That is a perfectly reasonable question to ask when

A:  The quality is much higher

and

B:  The cost is comparable.  (Note that costs are not always associated only with cash)


But I will answer your question with a few of my own:

How many here build their own joysticks?  Do you?  Why not? 

Does that mean you didn't "build your own arcade controls" because it uses IL joysticks?  Does it also mean that you did not build the spinner because you purchased every one of the items that make it up and used it in a different way than it was intended?

My take may not be the same as others, but this site has primarily been about making control panels from whatever was readily and reasonably available in order to best duplicate the arcade experiences we remember.  Six years ago, when that PDF was published, we had to do an awful lot of McGuyvering to get the job done.  Technology marches on in spite of the methods of the past, and what was a good idea 6 years ago looks entirely different today.  To ignore this is to become quagmired and places an artificial ceiling on the quality of the end result.

However, In the spirit of "roll your own", let me make this suggestion; buy a trackball booster kit from my website and base your homebrew spinner on that.  The encoders are laser cut from stainless steel, have 50% higher resolution than the dremeled ones and are a lot smaller.  Plus you'll have an extra to give as a present to a friend.  BTW, I don't build them myself, and the company that cuts them for me doesn't smelt their own metal.  But that doesn't mean the we both didn't contribute significantly to their existence.

RandyT

[spystyle]

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[RandyT]

*sigh*

It is unreasonable to build your own spinner because Randy sells them.

If this is all you took from my comments, then that is all you were looking to take from them.  Which is odd, as I never once stated nor alluded to this ideal.  I'm only encouraging people to do it better, lest they go through what I did when I went down this path.  OSCAR used to sell his encoder wheels separately so people could make a better homebrew spinner and I offered the same.  If I was only interested in selling spinners, that would have been the last thing I'd have done.

Your comments are unfair / single sighted and you have made no attempt to speak to the points I have raised.  But I will speak to yours (again)

In the future he may sell CNC cut arcade cabinets - at that time it will become unreasonable to build an arcade cabinet using a jigsaw and wood because it's quality will be "subpar" to what can be purchased.

This is ludicrous.  You are comparing aesthetic construction with mechanical efficiency.  They aren't even similar.

RandyT

[spystyle]

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[Kaytrim]

Ok fighters, return to your corners.    This was an interesting argument and not entirely pointless.  IMHO you can interpret BYOAC to be either Build Your Own or Buy Your Own.  It is all a matter of taste, skills and cash.  Personally I own an Oscar Vortex spinner that I have hacked into a mouse.  In that regard I am of both camps.

  I will say that I like the idea of using Randy's encoder wheels to build your own spinner.  I might even do that to build the CP for my FE.  Using a spinner to page through the games list sounds like a good idea and one that I am currently working on.

[patrickl]

A guy tries to share some information and he has to put up with all this? What a drag! You are relentless!

It is so obvious that you are trying to discourage people from building things that you sell.

I think he is just warning people might be disappointed by the result you get from building your own spinner. To be honest I would agree with that. A spinner with a tooth count of 40 will only be usable for a few games at best.

The spinners that are sold by GGG and Ultimarc (and probably others) are far superior to anything you could build yourself.

There is a difference from discouraging people from building stuff themselves altogether and pointing out that some parts of a cabinet are better bought.

For instance, you could start molding your own pushbuttons and creating your own switches from aluminum foil or something. On the other hand just buying a few pushbuttons with switches (micro or leaf) will give you a much better endresult and save loads of time. I doubt many people would consider making their own buttons.

Of course spinners are very expensive so it makes more sense to build one of those yourself and of course you will have some fun with it. On the other hand if people are seriously interested in spinner games it makes sense to warn them ahead that it will cost them a lot of time while the result might not have been worth all the effort.

With regards to the BYO name joke, I think the site has been more about "Build Your Own Arcade Cabinet" than about building the controls for years now.

[spystyle]

Well, the bottom line is -

This spinner cost $10 and takes 2 hours to build. It plays Tempest just fine (I just got done playing a round). Does it compare to a $70 commercial spinner? I would imagine not! But I don't have a commercial spinner to compare it to.

Naturally, whenever you can - buy the very best.

But if you can't afford that - or maybe you're like me and would rather spoil your child with toys than yourself - here is a spinner that costs $10 and works fine.

It's better than no spinner at all.

Happy gaming,
Craig