minipac questions

[megashock5]

I'm considering buying a minipac when I start build my cabinet (very soon) but had a couple of questions.

Do joysticks take up more than one input on the encoder since they replicate multiple keystrokes?

I'm counting 25 buttons on the CP I'm planning, two 8-way sticks, one 4-way stick, plus trackball and spinner.

Will all this fit on a minipac?

thanks in advance!

[Knoxximus]

I have a minipac, and each joystick will take up 4 inputs, since each direction is an input.  So right now, your total button count is more like 20 (minus the trackball and spinner 'cause those are a different type of input).  If you're planning on havin' some buttons to go with your controls, ya better look into the IPac-2/4 and an Optipac.

OIC, you mean you have 25 buttons to go with the afore mentioned controls?....get a I-Pac4 and Opti-Pac....DEFINATELY.

[Bgnome]

each joystick requires 4 inputs, 1 for each direction.  the only difference between a 4-way and an 8-way is that a 4-way isnt supposed to let you hit 2 at a time, (diagonals).

assuming the 4-way is mapped to the same inputs as one of the 8- ways, you will need 8 inputs for your joysticks alone.  that only leaves you with 20 other inputs on the minipac..  you may consider using the shift function or change your plans if you still want to use one.

[megashock5]

Hmm. I was *very* intrigued by how much easier this one seems like it would be as far as hooking it all up. On Ultimarc's site it says, "Can be paired in any combination to increase the total number of  inputs."

Any idea what that means?

Also does this thing come with all the wires and stuff that you need to hook up the controls? It looks like it has a lot of wires in the picture...

thanks again!

[Knoxximus]

Yeah, it does.  It's kind of messy, though.  It comes with a wiring harness, and you're gonna hafta play operation and crimp every wire from the controls to every wire on the harness (this is experience talkin' ).  No nice screw in connectors like the I-Pac2/4.  But once you do all that, it works as advertised.

[Bgnome]

you hafta pay extra for the wiring harness.  but it does come crimped and ready to go.

"pairing for more inputs" means that you can connect multiple minipacs/ipacs together.  this, however, is not as intuitive as it seems if you read a recent minipac thread..

[megashock5]

Man, this is getting so confusing  

I was trying to follow the Project Arcade book. They mention having mouse buttons near the trackball as well as a couple of other administrative buttons - are these something that could be done with this "shift" funtion? (you'll have to pardon me, I don't really know how that works.)

I looked at the minipac diagram on Ultimarc's site - looks like it supports up to 8 buttons per player and I'm only going to have 6. I would assume that I could use the extras for things like pinball flipper buttons?

Also, is the regular iPac easier to hook up? You sounded like the screw-in type terminals were easier to deal with. I just don't know how much wire to buy or what kind of connectors, which is why the minipac looked so attractive. Plus the cost of an iPac *plus* the Optipac worries me.

My other problem is that my trackball is out of an old Centipede machine and I still don't know if I can hook it up to this.

Thanks so much for your help, everybody. I'm excited about this but I keep getting down about how hard this is going to be - never done any wiring in my life.

[Knoxximus]

you hafta pay extra for the wiring harness.  but it does come crimped and ready to go.

"pairing for more inputs" means that you can connect multiple minipacs/ipacs together.  this, however, is not as intuitive as it seems if you read a recent minipac thread..

Naw, you only pay extra for the longer wires....it comes with the standard wiring harness.

[Knoxximus]

Man, this is getting so confusing  

I was trying to follow the Project Arcade book. They mention having mouse buttons near the trackball as well as a couple of other administrative buttons - are these something that could be done with this "shift" funtion? (you'll have to pardon me, I don't really know how that works.)

I looked at the minipac diagram on Ultimarc's site - looks like it supports up to 8 buttons per player and I'm only going to have 6. I would assume that I could use the extras for things like pinball flipper buttons?

Also, is the regular iPac easier to hook up? You sounded like the screw-in type terminals were easier to deal with. I just don't know how much wire to buy or what kind of connectors, which is why the minipac looked so attractive. Plus the cost of an iPac *plus* the Optipac worries me.

My other problem is that my trackball is out of an old Centipede machine and I still don't know if I can hook it up to this.

Thanks so much for your help, everybody. I'm excited about this but I keep getting down about how hard this is going to be - never done any wiring in my life.

I never did any wiring wither, and when I first got my cab and looked at that bird's nest, I almost lost hope.  But once you start doing it, it's not that bad.  Kinda like how a music studio soundboard looks like a bunch of buttons and knobs, but once you learn that each "strip" is the same thing, it all makes sense.  I got confused when you said the 25 buttons thing.  If allyour gonna have is 2-joys, 6-8 buttons per player,a 4-way (that can "share" inputs) and the trackball and spinner, then you should be okay with the MiniPac.

Screw in terminals are better because if you hafta change an input or if you wire something wrong (which, as a 1st timer, you WILL), all you have to do is unscrew and re-screw, instead of clipping the wires to make already short wires shorter, and re-crimping them.

As far as buying wires, if your cab is used, the controls will already have wires hanging from them (hence, the "bird's nest").  If not, I think it's like 18-22 gauge wire will do the trick.

Shift function lets you use one button for 2 functions.  Like, if I hold down my Player-1 Start button and press player-1 button 1 (weak puch, so to say), I will "drop quarters" into the game.

Centipede trakball should work fine....minipacs use standard arcade trackball interfaces.

[Bgnome]

Mini-PAC standard. Board only. Handles 28 switch inputs. with PS/2 keyboard cable $29       
Mini-PAC standard, with 28 switch harness plus ground harness and PS/2 cable. $46

that, to me, does not seem like the wiring harness is actually "included" when you purchase a minipac.  there seems to be a $17 difference there.. correct me if im wrong.

if you look at the wiring schematic, you will notice that there are 2 dedicated mouse buttons that do not count towards your number of inputs.
a shifted function allows you to press 2 buttons, the shift button (p1 start i think it is) and another button, to get a 3rd input like the shift button on a scientific calculator.  people generally use these as admin functions since you dont normally use them and it allows for less buttons on the cp.  there is also a way to wire a dedicated button to hit both the "shift" and an input to give you your shifted input, but this tends to get complicated and will shift any other button pressed as well.
so basically, with the minipac, you are looking at 8 inputs for joysticks, 2 inputs for player start, 2 inputs for player coin, 12 inputs for play buttons (6 per player or a 7th that is one of these doubled up, which is what the standard seems to be), and 4 admin buttons, not including the 2 mouse buttons.  if this does not suit you, nor do any variations on this theme, then the minipac is not the right choice for you.

[Knoxximus]

Really though, who except OEM folks are gonna order the board only version?  This is a noob here.....he's gonna want the harness.  So, that being said, it's not like you have to order it separately because when you order that particular bundle (I have the USB myself), it is included.

[Bgnome]

i understand your point, but i think you are underestimating people here.  when i considered ordering the minipac, i was going to order it without the harness and wire it with an IDE connector.  i know that many others have already done the same.  $17 is not an insignificant amount.  i never said the harness had to be ordered separately, i just said you pay more for it.
there is no difference between the options available at the moment except for the wiring harness and the connection cables.  hence why i believe it to be optional.  it boils down to cost vs convenience.  without the harness, it is one of the most cost-effective options out there.

[microwrx]

Dude

If you have a 2 player control panel with 6 buttons each player plus player 1 & 2 start, that's 22 inputs in total.  Leaving you with 6 inputs for your admin buttons (if you really think you need them, shift works just fine), coin buttons and trackball buttons (mouse buttons).  No additional wiring or crimping will be required.

However, adding the 4 way will mean you'll need to wire up it's input's to the same wires as the 8-way player 1 stick (and if you have it in the middle of your panel and have seperate buttons for it then you will wire those buttons to the same corresponding player 1 buttons also).  Flipper buttons usually use the same input as player 1's buttons so you won't need additional inputs for those either.

So the only additional wiring you will need to do is for those buttons that share inputs and if you do it smart (y cables with a single male connector at one end and your 2 or 3 female ones at the other) you will not need to make any changes to the Mini-PAC harness at all, even if you stuff up you shouldn't have to change anything on the Mini-PAC harness as the connectors just pull off/push on.

For those discussing the pro's/con's of getting the Mini-PAC with/without the harness (which is the only difference in the price).  I purchased mine with the standard harness but decided to make my own with an IDE cable and save the harness it came with for my next project.  The reason was I have used mine in a 4 player cab (for player 3&4, player 1&2 utilise a J-PAC) and the standard harness just wouldn't reach between players 3&4 even with the long cables.  I'll save that harness for a 2 player project I have in mind for the future.

[megashock5]

Hmm. Well, that was part of my problem (the pinball flippers) but if they can share with buttons that are already being used, it might be doable. What about a pinball plunger button, does that use a key already being used as well?

Also, for those who have the minipac, are the standard wires it comes with long enough for a 2-player panel? Again, I'm using the project arcade plans (just for reference).

Thanks everyone for all the input!  I just don't want to order the wrong thing for what I need.

[Knoxximus]

Yeah, the're long enough....you will just need to make sure that the wires coming off of the controls are long enough to reach them and still have some slack, that's all.  But like I said, when everything is finally laid out in front of you, it will make a lot more sense.

[megashock5]

Okay, so my original plan was for two 8-way sticks and one 4-way. Sounds like the 4-way will map to the same as one of the 8-ways. Six buttons per stick. Two pinball flippers and one plunger. P1 and P2 credit and start buttons. The rest were for quit, pause, reset and mouse buttons, etc.

someone said something about separate inputs on the minipac for mouse buttons. I could probably get by with accessing the quit, pause, reset stuff with the shift function.

For those who have a minipac, does this sound like it could work with it? Also, how hard is it to connect two controls to one terminal? (two sticks sharing inputs, and I think someone mentioned the flipper buttons sharing with other buttons too).

thanks!!!