2 Random tips before starting your project

[grumble]

Hi,

I wanted to share my pseudo-tips with everyone. After reading the faqs and tutorials, and hundreds of project sites,
I got the idea to have my tivo start recording episodes of 'This Old House' and 'the New Yankee Workshop' on HGTV. I've been watching for last couple of months and have found it to be an immensely useful resource. They demonstrate almost every woodworking technique you can imagine at some point or another. As a woodworking newbie I was eager to see how some of it was done. I don't know it just made a lot of sense. Of course they have almost every professional tool known to man, but I think it makes a nice supplement to the tips and techniques you'll find on this site and others.

Also I've found Microsoft OneNote to be a very handy program for taking notes and designing my cabinet. It makes it very easy to mix text, drawings, url's, sound clips, links to files, whatever into a virtual notebook. My arcade notebook contains screenshots of features I want to have, useful links, pro and con lists of various materials and controls, measurements of my doors and the room my cab is going to live in, etc. It's a lifesaver!!

[Mameotron]

Yep.  Norm really knows his stuff, and is a true craftsman.  If you're a true woodworking novice, you're probably going to borrow someone's tools for your first project.  If you're thinking of buying tools, I suggest you follow Norm's advice:  The first tool you should buy is the highest quality table saw you can afford.

[patrickl]

I found my router to be the most important tool. I was sceptical for ages, but after I bought one I wondered how I ever did without one.

[Landstander]

Another show to look for is called The Router Workshop. As you can tell by the name it focuses on how to do stuff with a router.

I got the idea to have my tivo start recording episodes of 'This Old House' and 'the New Yankee Workshop' on HGTV. I've been watching for last couple of months and have found it to be an immensely useful resource. They demonstrate almost every woodworking technique you can imagine at some point or another.

[fogman]

Black and Decker Sandstorm- 3 in 1 Sander.  Very handy when it comes down to either painting or sanding the wood putty flat...a very chep and handy tool!

[Pieman2004]

I'll have to look into that OneNote program. I've been trying to keep some sort of log of what I'm doing with my cab, but it just isn't very organized in notepad. The visuals would be useful as well. And as for tools my grandpa loved working with wood so my dad has all of his tools. Maybe I'll take some to my house one of these days so I don't have to go there to work.

[IG-88]

Here is a free 60 day trial:

http://www.microsoft.com/office/onenote/prodinfo/trialoffer.mspx

Looks pretty cool.

[Mameotron]

Ok, I was going to start a thread about tips for new woodworkers, but I think my ideas fit here.  I'd like to address 3 things that seem to be issues when people build their cabinets.

1.  Material Selection
2.  Drill Bits
3.  Glue & screws

I don't want a huge post, so I'll just discuss material selection first.

It seems like a lot of people are buildng cabinets using MDF.  I understand that it is easy to cut, rout, etc., but the stuff is really heavy, doesn't hold screws well, and is subject to deterioration from water and humidity.  I can't imagine building a cabinet that I wanted to last a long time out of MDF.

I suggest that you use MDO plywood.  This is a plywood with a paper covering.  Man, you just can't beat this when you are ready to paint.  The paper surface is really smooth so you don't need to sand it, and you don't even need to prime it.  The paper keeps the wood from soaking up the paint.
Like all other plywood, it is a little more difficult to work than MDF, but it makes up for that in every other aspect.  Someone wrote in to Norm Abrams (master carpenter for This Old House and The New Yankee Workshop) asking about using MDF to build a corner cabinet for his dining room.  This is what Norm said.
(The carcass is referring to the outside housing of the cabinet).

"Making carcasses from MDF would be challenging. The carcass would be heavy and the material doesn't hold screws very well and would have to be painted very well to avoid humidity problems.
MDO (medium density overlay) is a tough paper covered plywood product well suited for the corner cabinet. It can be fastened with screws, nails, glue etc.
MDO is a quality plywood product designed for the outdoors. Sign-makers use this stuff to make weatherproof signs.  It may be found in some home centers and lumber yards, (if they don't have it they can order it). You're more likely to find it at a plywood dealer.  A perfectly reasonable alternative to MDO would be good quality AC fir plywood."

Now, I know that many of you have built cabinets with MDF and have had great experiences with it.  I'm not saying you're wrong, I believe that whatever works best for you is the right material to use.  If you would rather use MDF because it is easier to work, and you're not concerned with the moisture related problems, I say go for it.

But I would advise someone who has never built anything before to go with MDO plywood.  I think you'll be happier with the results, and hopefully this will keep you going in this hobby.

[cbmeeks]

Norm really knows his stuff, and is a true craftsman

Yeah, Norm is king.  Unlike that pansey Bob Villa.  Have you ever noticed Norm (or Nam) gets right to it and works while Bob Villa just talks about it and watches other people work?  I swear, I have seen about 1000 Bob Villa shows and I have yet to see him actually pick up one of his tools and use it.  Hell, even his Sears commercials show OTHER people using the tools he is selling.

lol

[shmokes]

You know...I always thought the button holes were supposed to be the same size as the joystick holes, and the Visio templates support that claim.  But now that I've drilled my panel I realize that I should have used a smaller bit for my button holes.  The lip on my buttons will barely cover the hole if it was drilled perfectly.  If the bit jumped around when starting the hole, even by a tiny fraction of an inch, the button lip will somtimes not cover it all.  The shaft of the button, though, would fit easily into a much smaller-diameter hole.

[SirPeale]

Dang, shmokes, what size bit are you using?  I've always used a 1 1/8" saw, and it's nice and snug.

[patrickl]

You know...I always thought the button holes were supposed to be the same size as the joystick holes, and the Visio templates support that claim.

I've seen that before yes, but doesn't that depend on the joystick (throw, handle width) and mounting depth? I mounted my Ms Pac/Galaga reunion stick with something like a 7/8" hole for the handle. Far less than the 1 1/8"for the button holes. Maybe not an issue if you put the dust washers on top of the CP, but if you plan to hide those then the hole size should be as small as possible.

BTW probably the best random tip is to think before you implement. Better try new ideas out on (scrap) pieces of wood before you commit them to your cab. I see way too many threads that fill the pattern: "I did <fill in destructive act> to my cab and I really shouldn't have, please help me fix it".

[grumble]

Norm really knows his stuff, and is a true craftsman

Yeah, Norm is king.  Unlike that pansey Bob Villa.  Have you ever noticed Norm (or Nam) gets right to it and works while Bob Villa just talks about it and watches other people work?  I swear, I have seen about 1000 Bob Villa shows and I have yet to see him actually pick up one of his tools and use it.  Hell, even his Sears commercials show OTHER people using the tools he is selling.

lol

Totaly   . Did you ever see that sticom, Home Improvement? The Tim and Al characters are based on Bob and Norm down to the beard, plaid shirts and glasses on Al. Pretty funny stuff.

So I'm curious.. Where did those of you who consider yourselves to be competent woodworkers learn your stuff? Was it just trial and error, a teacher? a class? books? tv? what. Are there any good resources beginners could use to learn more?

[foomench]

So I'm curious.. Where did those of you who consider yourselves to be competent woodworkers learn your stuff? Was it just trial and error, a teacher? a class? books? tv? what. Are there any good resources beginners could use to learn more?

This will answer your question, but may not help: I learned a little bit in a shop class in high school, but most of what I learned I picked up from my dad. I helped him build my desk, a loft structure, a wall unit, and a host of other things. It started with me just helping, to me designing and both of us building, to him helping me a little, and now I'm on my own making things these days.

I strongly second the "try things out on a scrap" technique. Maybe a pro doesn't need to do this, but I always do if it is something new and different.

-foomench

[patrickl]

I actually started out building a microcab PocketGalaga just to teach myself some woodworking and painting skills. Also to see if I was even able to build something at all since I never did any woodworking before. After that I did a standalone CP. From those two experiments I learned an incredible lot. Most importantly the standalone CP tought me I had some designflaws in my upright cab plans so I'm working on correcting those.

But even still, I try to mount a new joystick or new trackball on a scrap bit of wood first.

[DougHillman]

So I'm curious.. Where did those of you who consider yourselves to be competent woodworkers learn your stuff? Was it just trial and error, a teacher? a class? books? tv? what. Are there any good resources beginners could use to learn more?

Do they still teach shop class in Jr. High?  Mine was 20 something years ago.    Didn't take anything in High School (I was working with computers only then.  Woulda taken the shop classes if I'd known I was gonna end up with a hobby that combined the two.  )  

I'm of the "read a whole lot about it, and then jump right in" school.  I picked up some woodworking books from the library (mostly tool how-to type books), woodworking magazines, and watched the woodworking shows on PBS.   I then went to work on the project I was wanting to do.  (A jewelery box for my then girlfriend.)   I screwed things up a coupla times and had to redo stuff, but it was the best way to learn.  

As you go, you're going to learn what works & what doesn't.  What tools are really useful (ROUTER!) and what aren't as imperative (table saw) to an amatuer woodworker.  

Building a cabinet is actually a pretty decent choice for a first project.  In general, it's not overly complicated and doesn't need to be 100% perfect to the smallest detail.   The best suggestion is to take your time, plan things out ahead of time, take some more time, think about things, and not sweat it too much if you screw up.  Nearly every mistake you could make can be rectified somehow.  

And ask lots of questions.  You probably know some people who are decent woodworkers.  And there's a whole forum full of them here.

 

[shmokes]

Dang, shmokes, what size bit are you using?  I've always used a 1 1/8" saw, and it's nice and snug.

I'll ltry to remember to look at the size of the bit next time I'm at work (I've got a garage at my work where I'm building my cabinet.  Shhh....nobody there knows -- I clean up after myself very well).  After I drilled the holes and mounted some buttons I wondered if I was drilling too big, but my bit matches the visio stencils EXACTLY.  It's fine on the joysticks, of course, cos of the dust washers, but the lip on my buttons barely covers a perfectly drilled hole.  If it were any worse I'd redo it.  If I did it again, I'd use a smaller bit.

[Chris]

You know...I always thought the button holes were supposed to be the same size as the joystick holes, and the Visio templates support that claim.  But now that I've drilled my panel I realize that I should have used a smaller bit for my button holes.  The lip on my buttons will barely cover the hole if it was drilled perfectly.  If the bit jumped around when starting the hole, even by a tiny fraction of an inch, the button lip will somtimes not cover it all.  The shaft of the button, though, would fit easily into a much smaller-diameter hole.

Are you using the smaller Nintendo buttons instead of the standard buttons?

--Chris

[rchadd]

1. wear a mask when working with mdf

2. mdf is nice to work with but very heavy, in hind sight i think i should have used plywood.

[grumble]

I found another tip out the hard way last night. Be very careful when buying clamps at home depot. My girlfriend took one of the long (4ft) metal clamps off the shelf. The one behind it fell on the floor and the one behind that fell on my head. Trust me. Getting wanged on the head with a big metal clamp is no fun at all.

[shmokes]

I went back and took a second look.  It's my mistake.  I thought I was supposed to use the same size bit for the joystick and the buttons.  My bit does match up exactly with the button stencil in Visio, but it matches up with the outer ring, rather than the inner ring.

So, there's my tip:  Don't do that.

[DrewKaree]

My bit does match up exactly with the button stencil in Visio, but it matches up with the outer ring, rather than the inner ring.

So, there's my tip:  Don't do that.

Here's my tip.  Have shmokes over to help build your cabinet.  He's done it already, so knows what he's doing, and he can show you in person what NOT to do.  I plan on doing this (but I'm a-gonna have to save up a bunch of money for plane tickets and "carpenter payroll expenses")  

[Xiaou2]

 "MDF dosmt hold screws well"    

  Actaully, MDF does hold screws - but you need the right type of screws.   You need coarse thread screws and not fine thread.  

  The fine threads tear the material up - and as you can see... that once the material gets broken up, it chips, flakes, and turns to dust particales.

  The course threads are spaced far enuff appart that they do not break the material up... and they actually compress the material a bit, so that its grip is even stronger.  

  I also recomend coarse threads in any other wood instance where strength is needed.  (I havnt worked with hardwoods.. so maybe fine threads would be ok with them)

  Yes, mdf is heavy...but then again,  its the cheapest stuff to buy and is pretty damn strong.   If you have the money tho... plywood is the way to go... as its corner strong and much lighter.

[shmokes]

It actually turned out fine.  I'm in the process of making my control panels now.  When I figured out my mistake I hadn't laminated them yet.  So I put a bunch of masking tape around the inside of the button holes to make them smaller, so when I used my router with a flush trim bit to cut the button holes in the laminate they are a bit smaller so the button lip covers them completely.  

Phew....that was close.

[Tailgunner]

My advice would be to forget the screws altogether and buy/rent a pin nailer and air compressor. You'll find a ton of uses for compressed air once you have a convienent source of it, so I'd buy the compressor and rent the nailer.

Adding onto Xiaou2's advice, they actually make specific screws for MDF. Course thread drywall screws work almost as well, though it's easier to snap the head off of a drywall screw.

In either case, you should support your cabinet's joints with reinforcement blocks and glue everything together.