Vector mame

[rchadd]

just seen http://www.zektor.com/zvg/zvg_vmame.htm

wondering  if anyone has built a purely vector based mame system?

i see you can get a graphics card to drive a vector monitor.

might be my next project after the cocktail is completed

it would be awesome to be able to play starwars, asteroids, tempest, battlezone as they were meant to be seen.

are there any other vector games worth playing?

[SirPeale]

I always wanted to, but the lack of a very expensive vector monitor stopped me.

[rchadd]

that was going to be my next question...

where to get colour vector monitors and how much?

can't imagine they are easy to get these days as no new vector games been made in the last 20 years

being in the UK will definitely not help either

[SirPeale]

You'd either have to get them from an old game or from someone who's parting an old game.  And no, it wont' be cheap.  Unless you get lucky.

[ChadTower]

I am about to build one, actually... based on Doc's modular panels, sort of.  I have a Space Duel cab that I'm going to use to do it with a brilliant, fully shopped monitor.  I'm just waiting for my finances to clear up a bit so I can afford the ZVG board.  I already have the Star Wars yoke ready to be converted...

[JustMichael]

I personally love vector games on a pc monitor set at a minimum resolution of 1024x768.  The only real difference is no super bright pixels (like the shots in Asteroids).  I can also adjust the line width and brightness to match the each game as I remember them.

[ChadTower]

I have never seen a CRT monitor that could come close to matching a fully working, top condition color vector monitor.  Not even one that was marginally close.

[RayB]

A word of caution to any one using vector monitors:

They burn-in VERY fast. In Star Wars for example, there is a diagnostic mode where you can view the game graphics in slow step by step. It is not recommended that you ever leave the screen on one image (especially the bright death star explosion). Burn-in happens extremely quickly.

I know this through hear-say.  

~Ray B.

[ChadTower]

I'll take that into consideration.  Not really reason to refrain from using the appropriate monitor for a vecmame cabinet, though.  

[Edgedamage]

A word of caution to any one using vector monitors:

They burn-in VERY fast. In Star Wars for example, there is a diagnostic mode where you can view the game graphics in slow step by step. It is not recommended that you ever leave the screen on one image (especially the bright death star explosion). Burn-in happens extremely quickly.

I know this through hear-say.  

~Ray B.

True that's why they have a "spot killer" circut in the monitors.

[ChadTower]

True that's why they have a "spot killer" circut in the monitors.

What's a "spot killer"?

[Edgedamage]

Spot Killer Indicator
  A spot killer circuit is used to blank the CRT under a
  no signal condition. When the spot killer is active,
  the CRT will be extinguished and LED D504 will light
  indicating spot killer operation.

Ganked from wells gardner site.

[Witchboard]

I saw a astroids cocktail that had a little spot burned in the center of the monitor.  Is this what would happen to a monitor without a spot killer?

I had the chance to buy an Astroids Deluxe at an auction.  Wish I would have went a few bucks higher on it.  

[ChadTower]

Spot Killer Indicator
  A spot killer circuit is used to blank the CRT under a
  no signal condition. When the spot killer is active,
  the CRT will be extinguished and LED D504 will light
  indicating spot killer operation.

Ganked from wells gardner site.

Yeah, but burnin isn't caused by a no signal condition... it's caused by a signal that doesn't change, right?

[rchadd]

on ebay i've seen somebody demonstrate a tempest board was in working order by using a oscilloscope.

no really an option for a cab though

could use an old vectrix console if you can find one

any recommendations on which make of vector monitor is desirable? either color or mono

can you get them new?

[ChadTower]

on ebay i've seen somebody demonstrate a tempest board was in working order by using a oscilloscope.

no really an option for a cab though

could use an old vectrix console if you can find one

any recommendations on which make of vector monitor is desirable? either color or mono

can you get them new?

They don't make them anymore but you can nearly complete one from new parts, and then take a couple old parts from broken monitors.  I forget which is which, though, but if you do a search there was a thread in the monitor forum on exactly this recently.

Vectrexes aren't hard to find, I have three and am sitting 2 feet from one in my cube right now.

[rchadd]

just seen this - pity its not colour!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3945&item=6112064159&rd=1

[ChadTower]

If the price stays right, it's worth picking up anyway and you can just swap in a color monitor when you get one.

[paigeoliver]

The best option if you want to do vectormame is to buy a complete and working Space Duel, Black Widow, or Gravitar. The black and white monitors won't make you happy, and Star Wars and Tempest cost too much money.

Although the PROBLEM with the whole vectorMame idea is that there is no ideal set of controls.

We have.

Buttons, Asteroids, AD, Space War/s, Space Duel, Gravitar, Rip Off, Star Castle, Armor Attack, Barrier, Demon, Eliminator, Solar Quest, Space Fury, Sundance, WoTW


Dual joy 8-way. Black Widow, Starhawk, maybe others,

Analog joys (assorted types) Red Baron, Star Wars, Empire, Lunar Lander, Tailgunner 1 and 2,

Spinner - Boxing Bugs, Tempest, Cosmic Chasm, Speed Freak (sort of), Major Havok, Omega Race, Star Trek, Tac/Scan, Zektor,

Trackball - Quantum

You would pretty much have to go with a Space Duel + spinner layout, which would unfortunately keep you from playing some really great games.

[NoOne=NBA=]

I'd still love to try out Laser MAME.

It plays MOST of the vector games; but uses a laser projector, and can be projected onto anything that is available (wall, building, clouds, etc...).

[ChadTower]

The best option if you want to do vectormame is to buy a complete and working Space Duel, Black Widow, or Gravitar. The black and white monitors won't make you happy, and Star Wars and Tempest cost too much money.

Although the PROBLEM with the whole vectorMame idea is that there is no ideal set of controls.

We have.

Buttons, Asteroids, AD, Space War/s, Space Duel, Gravitar, Rip Off, Star Castle, Armor Attack, Barrier, Demon, Eliminator, Solar Quest, Space Fury, Sundance, WoTW


Dual joy 8-way. Black Widow, Starhawk, maybe others,

Analog joys (assorted types) Red Baron, Star Wars, Empire, Lunar Lander, Tailgunner 1 and 2,

Spinner - Boxing Bugs, Tempest, Cosmic Chasm, Speed Freak (sort of), Major Havok, Omega Race, Star Trek, Tac/Scan, Zektor,

Trackball - Quantum

You would pretty much have to go with a Space Duel + spinner layout, which would unfortunately keep you from playing some really great games.

This is all true.  I have a Space Duel that I am going to convert.  I have a Star Wars yoke.

I am going to use a swappable panel scheme similar to Doc's, only I will be swapping in whole panels.  Here you can take advantage of the fact that although you need lots of controls, there are really only a few different layouts to play all of the games.  

I am also going to add full vectrex emulation to it, with controllers and 3d glasses.

Yes yes, this will be sweet as hell.  As soon as I get some clear funds for the ZVG.

[rchadd]

how much is the ZVG is it expensive?

[ChadTower]

$239, plus $15 for a premade monitor cable if you don't want to make one yourself, which I don't if I don't have to.

[Kremmit]

I'd still love to try out Laser MAME.

It plays MOST of the vector games; but uses a laser projector, and can be projected onto anything that is available (wall, building, clouds, etc...).

That is the coolest thing I have seen in a long time.

[ChadTower]

Pity it hasn't been updated since 2002.  

[rchadd]

awesome

i wonder how much the hardware for laser mame costs?

[hunky_artist]

if you read the website and not just look at the pictures it says about 4,000 to 5,000 for a basic one colour set up, and 15k to 20k for a bigger, brighter faster setup.

...and OMG do i want one of them, lol

[rchadd]

yes i found it...

As far as cost, it depends on how large of a surface you wish to project on, and whether or not full-color projection is desired. As far as the base cost (not including the PC), a pair of scanners, vector output hardware, a laser, and a method of quickly switching the laser on and off are needed. For a small, minimalist, monochrome setup (perfect for games like Asteroids which only use one color) that can be used on a moderately-large white wall of a darkened room, expect to pay at least $4K-$5K. If running a full-color setup, a color-selection crystal is needed to provide instantaneous color-modulation, costing from roughly $1K-$4K depending on the strength of the laser used. The price of the laser is usually the largest determining factor, ranging from a few hundred dollars for laser-pointer strength output up to tens of thousands of dollars for full-color, high-power output appropriate for Darien Lake, or projection on the side of a six story building. A professional setup, including all proper housings, mountings, power supplies, and other small-but-necessary items, a base price of $20K-$30K is fairly average.

[ChadTower]

Of course, that's all dependent on the product still being available and ever having been completed.  That website hasn't been updated in two years.

[pocketbikez]

other than the high cost of building a vector mame cab i am most worried about the monitor. even if i get a decent vector monitor on ebay i would worry how reliable it will be. i would have nightmares of constant vector monitor problems and always having to watch for another super high priced vector monitor to appear on ebay.

im hoping one day wells gardner will make replacement vector monitors. i would pay $600-$700 for a brand new high quality vector monitor and the peace of mind knowing i could buy another exact replacement 10 years down the road if needed. i imagine the big cab builders like ultracade would buy a bunch of em and start building commercial vector cabs.

we should all email wells gardner monthly and request they start production on replacement WG6101 Color vector monitors. or even a 27" vector  

i just emailed my request to the vice president of operations:

aalexander@wellsgardner.com

[ChadTower]

A fully shopped vector monitor should be nicely reliable... plus, you can fit in the LV2000 retrofit and it should be as reliable as a raster.