4p control panel questions.

[Sir Auros]

I want to build a 4p control panel from scratch, players 1 and 2 would have 6 buttons each and players 3 and 4 would have 4. Not interested in adding a trackball or spinner, but I might add a single 4-way for older games.

What I had wanted to do was take apart 4 USB gamepads that had enough inputs to suit my needs, but I don't know if ghosting or something similar would occur with that setup. Would that work ok, or should I just get an encoder?

Any estimates as to how much it would cost to build a cp from scratch with the specifications I've described? Surely less than the $200-$500 I see similar control panels going for online.

I was also wondering if there are any places or individuals who make setups like this for reasonable prices. I don't really consider the fugly X-arcade or the the non-fugly Slikstik control panels reasonably priced.

[monkeybomb]

I'm not a slik stik fan because I don't like the placement of the spinner or the 4-way, but if you add up what it would cost you to make a slik stik classic you might find that it's not that unreasonable.   Of corse you don't want all that stuff.  

The is also the Dvestator II  400
http://www.treyonics.com/

Or the stinger 500
http://www.gamecabinetsinc.com/stinger.shtml

They are all probably more than you want to spend.  The Hot Rodd is cheap (100) and uses real happs controls.  It's a great stick but small.

http://www.hanaho.com/products/HotRodJoystick/overview.html

The x-arcade uses far east knock off parts and I wouldn't go anywhere near it unless I had to use a playstation AND I could afford to change out the joysticks and buttons.


Of course none of these have four player in mind.  I always wonder why people want a four player pannel.  I usually play with one or two people at most and there aren't many games for us all to play at the same time.  Are you really going to use the 4 player pannel that much?

I would also high reccomend against all that USB hacking.  If you can go the ps/2 route try the keywiz.  35

http://groovygamegear.com/Page5.html

 

[Sir Auros]

Most of my favorite games are 4-player and I do occasionally have enough of my friends over who'd be up for playing 4-player games.

[Industen]

I think the SS panels are priced very close to a piece build. Getting a 4 player the way you want it could be a problem. since all their panels are pretty much template based. I'm sure they can make one to your liking. Although you'd be the first in taking away things rather then adding. I really never understood the 7 button layout on 3/4 player but their are a few SNES games that used a multitap so I use it for that. I love my 4 player cabinet, so many people enjoy it during parties and such. If you have tons of people over it's priceless.

[Sir Auros]

I love my 4 player cabinet, so many people enjoy it during parties and such. If you have tons of people over it's priceless.

Yep, exactly why I want to go for that.

[foomench]

Any estimates as to how much it would cost to build a cp from scratch with the specifications I've described? Surely less than the $200-$500 I see similar control panels going for online.

I was mentally pricing a 4P CP in my head. Controls should be under $100 for four sticks and 4x8 buttons (6 games buttons plus coin and start per player). I'm planning on the Happs Competition since they come in colors, receive reasonable reviews, and are relatively inexpensive. I'd quote an exact price, but therealbobroberts.com seems to be down. Someone in another thread mentioned this and had a different URL. Search.

On top of that, add a I-PAC4 USB for $69 plus shipping. Yes, I'd go with an encoder. How much are those gamepads going to cost, and how much time is that going to take?

Now add on plywood, and some means to cover, such as laminate, lexan, etc., and T-molding for the edge.

Then there are tools that you need to buy, but hey, you'll need those for something else.

Anyway, I think you'll most likely spend more than $200 unless you've got a stocked shop with some scrap lying around. But you can certainly do much better than $500.

-foomench

[GGKoul]

WoW!! Newbie's helping Newbies....

A couple of things.  I have a 4 player panel as well and I recommend the following for you.

2 - T-Slik Plus joysticks for player 1 & 2.  These are 4/8 joysticks that will save you the hassle of adding a single 4 way.

While your getting a 2-T-Slik Plus from www.ultimarc.com get a IPAC4.  Unless you have 4 gamepads sitting around, getting an IPAC4 will make your life simpler.

2 - Competition or Super Joysticks for player 3 & 4.

6 buttons for Player 1 & 2

4 buttons for Player 3 & 4

Regarding the tools, if you don't have to tools.  That's not an issue, as you can pay Home Depot or someone else to cut the wood for you.

[Sir Auros]

Home Depot would cut it all to my specs.? If so, then that's definitely the way I'll go. I was just considering renting what I didn't have to work on it.

The reason I was thinking about not getting the 4/8 ways and just going with straight 8-ways was A - I would kind of like to have a balltop 4-way for aesthetics and B - I don't know how the switching between directions works for the T Stik Pluses or similar joysticks. Is there a way you could change the way the stick operates without having to open the cp?

I definitely want 6 buttons for players 1 and 2 for the Capcom fighters and 4 buttons for players 3 and 4 for games like Dungeons and Dragons.

[foomench]

Home Depot will make straight cuts (4-way ), usually two free per board, and charge you after that. Costs after that vary per store, as do the number of free cuts and precision, although I've not heard anyone report that HD would do angled cuts. If you need any of those, you may need to find a more local oriented store or shop.

The T Stik Plus can be changed from 4 to 8 way from the top of the panel. No need to open up the CP (or reach underneath).

Me, I'm also hoping to have a separate 4-way with a ball top.

-foomench

[SpamMe]

The reason I was thinking about not getting the 4/8 ways and just going with straight 8-ways was A - I would kind of like to have a balltop 4-way for aesthetics and B - I don't know how the switching between directions works for the T Stik Pluses or similar joysticks. Is there a way you could change the way the stick operates without having to open the cp?

A) Me too. When I bought my t-stiks, they hadn't released a ball top for it at the time. They have one now, though.
B) With the t stik plus, you lift the joystick, twist and release to switch between 4 and 8 way. GroovyGameGear also offers a switchable 4/8 way joy that you don't need to open the CP for (also with or without ball top).

[Sir Auros]

Another thing I kind of wanted to ask (without having to start a thread in the FS forum) was, "Would anyone here build a control panel to someone's general specs. and sell it for a price that's not ridiculously above cost?"

It's certainly something I would think could be lucrative selling on a site like this. Pricing the parts, the setup I'd want couldn't cost more than $200 and even if someone sold that at, say, a $50-$75 markup, they'd still probably get a lot of business considering there are places charging $600+ for simple, 4-player control panels.

I'd probably be willing to pay someone to make one, but I wouldn't pay an arm and a leg for it, opting to just learn how to make one and make it myself.

[b3atmania]

Another thing I kind of wanted to ask (without having to start a thread in the FS forum) was, "Would anyone here build a control panel to someone's general specs. and sell it for a price that's not ridiculously above cost?"

It's certainly something I would think could be lucrative selling on a site like this. Pricing the parts, the setup I'd want couldn't cost more than $200 and even if someone sold that at, say, a $50-$75 markup, they'd still probably get a lot of business considering there are places charging $600+ for simple, 4-player control panels.

I'd probably be willing to pay someone to make one, but I wouldn't pay an arm and a leg for it, opting to just learn how to make one and make it myself.

$50-$75 isn't much of a profit considering you will have at least a full days work on it. It would have to be some-one who's not in it for the money I guess...

[Mameotron]

I guess it really depends on how you look at this.  If someone likes woodworking and really enjoys building cps and things, being paid $50-$75 dollars above cost would seem pretty good.

I am that type of person.  I am building my 3rd cabinet right now, and I've been toying with the idea of offering my woodworking services to the members of BYOAC.  I love building these cabs, I just don't have the space, or the need, for making any more for myself.

I think your idea is a pretty good one.  Unfortunately, I don't have the time right now.  I have a lot of crap at work, a new baby at home, so maybe this fall when things are less hectic I could take a stab at it.

Sorry, I know you're not gonna wait around until this fall, but just to let you know I would like to pursue this idea.

[Sir Auros]

Sorry, I know you're not gonna wait around until this fall, but just to let you know I would like to pursue this idea.

Actually, I have no problem waiting for a while since it's going to be quite some time before I can really get my project started. I figured there'd be some people out there who do this as a hobby but do run out of projects to work on for themselves.

[ThePaul]

It is so much more rewarding to design and then build your own.

[Sir Auros]

It is so much more rewarding to design and then build your own.

Undoubtedly. However, I have absolutely zero experience with woodworking and not much with design. I'm looking more to find someone who could help make a control panel with my specifications. Basically, I'm looking for something wide enough for four people, has 6 buttons for the first two players, 4 for the other two and no trackball or dedicated 4-way joystick to clutter things up. If I can't find someone who's interested, I'd probably take the project to my father in law and work on it with him since he has all the necessary tools and woodworking/design experience.

[Silverwind]

Here is my 4player CP.
http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=6037;start=msg42344#msg42344

not quite finished yet.. i'm thinking about maybe making it a little smaller.. it is pretty large..  
the width is fine.. but the depth is a little large..

I'm not going to do anything until I get the rest of the cab though.. will mount it and see how it looks.. then make alterations..

I used 6 buttons for each player.. mostly for a uniform look..  and if you have a few really big fellas playing.. you can put them on the outside controls to play street fighter/mortal kombat/etc.

(edit:  I am using an I-PAC4 USB and happ controls)

[paigeoliver]

You CANNOT hack 4 identical gamepads. If you do that, you will find that they will switch positions randomly on each bootup.

Secondly. don't hack gravis gamepads EVER. They ghost, one of the few gamepads that have that problem.

Just buy an I-Pac 4, cheaper than buying 4 gamepads anyway.

[Trimoor]

Here is a much cheaper 64 input keyboard encoder:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13718&item=6112110192&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

If you don't want to bid on ebay, send an email to
WarriorWolfSpike@aol.com
and he will sell you one directly for $35.00 plus $5.50 shipping

[Sir Auros]

Yeah, should've mentioned that I've thrown the gamepad idea out the window due to the cost.

That encoder looks interesting and the price is right, but...

A - Do you really get what you pay for?
B - Are the inputs labelled like the I-Pac's?

[Trimoor]

I just ordered it yesterday, so I don't know.
Try emailing the guy and ask him.

[Mameotron]

Hmmm... I was about to buy Hangstrom's KE-72 for my latest cp.  Please let us know how this works out.

[Tiger-Heli]

Yeah, should've mentioned that I've thrown the gamepad idea out the window due to the cost.

That encoder looks interesting and the price is right, but...

A - Do you really get what you pay for?
B - Are the inputs labelled like the I-Pac's?

I only heard about that encoder a couple of day ago.  From what I can gather from the E-bay ad -

Question A - Yes, you get a 64-input encoder, probably no ghosting.  That's the Pro's.  The Con's - These are non-programmable AFAIK.  Not bad for MAME, but if you want to play NES or ZSNES emu's that don't let you re-map keys and that key isn't one of the 64 - you're out of luck.  You're also out of luck if you want Button 1 to be one key for one emu and something else for another emu.  The other drawback is you are dealing with Molex connectors rather than screw terminals.  The final drawback is that I think there are about 40 of these left from a production run in the late 70's, so if yours breaks, or you want to build another panel for a friend, you're back to square one.

Question B - No but that really doesn't matter - You get a keymap with the encoder.  If you want Button 1 to be Left Alt and Left Alt is Connector 4 Input 4 on the KeyMap, that's where you wire Button 1.  It is direct mode so you have a ground and wires to each button which is good (direct mode from a wiring standpoint, I suspect the CPU is multiplexed).

Your best option for a 4P CP is the I-PAC/4, but if cost is a major concern, you can do what you want with the KeyWiz from www.groovygamegear.com (or KeyWiz ECO if you don't mind soldering), but you will have to share some inputs.  See my reply to CobraTracker in this thread for details.

http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=21870;start=msg177854#msg177854

[Bgnome]

Yeah, should've mentioned that I've thrown the gamepad idea out the window due to the cost.

That encoder looks interesting and the price is right, but...

A - Do you really get what you pay for?
B - Are the inputs labelled like the I-Pac's?

I only heard about that encoder a couple of day ago.  From what I can gather from the E-bay ad -

Question A - Yes, you get a 64-input encoder, probably no ghosting.  That's the Pro's.  The Con's - These are non-programmable AFAIK.  Not bad for MAME, but if you want to play NES or ZSNES emu's that don't let you re-map keys and that key isn't one of the 64 - you're out of luck.  You're also out of luck if you want Button 1 to be one key for one emu and something else for another emu.  The other drawback is you are dealing with Molex connectors rather than screw terminals.  The final drawback is that I think there are about 40 of these left from a production run in the late 70's, so if yours breaks, or you want to build another panel for a friend, you're back to square one.

Question B - No but that really doesn't matter - You get a keymap with the encoder.  If you want Button 1 to be Left Alt and Left Alt is Connector 4 Input 4 on the KeyMap, that's where you wire Button 1.  It is direct mode so you have a ground and wires to each button which is good (direct mode from a wiring standpoint, I suspect the CPU is multiplexed).

Your best option for a 4P CP is the I-PAC/4, but if cost is a major concern, you can do what you want with the KeyWiz from www.groovygamegear.com (or KeyWiz ECO if you don't mind soldering), but you will have to share some inputs.  See my reply to CobraTracker in this thread for details.

http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=21870;start=msg177854#msg177854

i agree with you on the most part but i am pretty sure zsnes allows for custom control mapping.  most of the emulators i plan on using do.  as for the molex, i think i will be bypassing them completely and soldering wires and connecting to screw terminals.
if anyone wants the keymap, i can post it.  one thing i noticed tho, is that it is slightly off..  the map shows that pin 1 on each bank is assigned to a keycode, when in fact it isnt.  pin 1 and pin 10 are grounded, so each key on the keymap is off by 1 pin.
its a big board too, like cd case size..

[Trimoor]

Could you post the keymap?
I just bought one and would like to prepare.

Also, what type of molex connectors are they?
Is it .1" pin spacing? (same as ide cable)

[Bgnome]

the pins fit in my ide cable so i guess it is that standard spacing.  there are 8 banks with 10 pins each.  the first and last pin in each bank is ground.  remember, the first pin is ground so the key for CN1-1 is actually pin CN1-2 and so forth.  there is also a 5 pin header, CN9, for the keyboard connector.  it comes with an AT type connector.  if you want to connect to a ps/2 connector you must make the following connections, (or buy the adapter):

CN9 (keyboard connector header) > PS/2 plug (standard pin numbers)
1 > 3
3 > 4
4 > 5
5 > 1

Key Map for Two Bit Score 64-key Encoder by Lupine Systems
Pin            Key      Pin            Key
CN1-1   1      CN5-1   F9
CN1-2   2      CN5-2   F10
CN1-3   Q      CN5-3   F11
CN1-4   W      CN5-4   F12
CN1-5   A      CN5-5   A
CN1-6   S      CN5-6   E
CN1-7   Z      CN5-7   F
CN1-8   X      CN5-8   G
CN2-1   3      CN6-1   F1
CN2-2   4      CN6-2   F2
CN2-3   E      CN6-3   F3
CN2-4   R      CN6-4   F4
CN2-5   D      CN6-5   F5
CN2-6   F      CN6-6   F6
CN2-7   C      CN6-7   F7
CN2-8   V      CN6-8   F8
CN3-1   5      CN7-1   -
CN3-2   6      CN7-2   ]
CN3-3   T      CN7-3   L ALT
CN3-4   Y      CN7-4   [
CN3-5   G      CN7-5   L CTRL
CN3-6   H      CN7-6   ‘
CN3-7   B      CN7-7   `
CN3-8   N      CN7-8   ENT
CN4-1   7      CN8-1   9
CN4-2   8      CN8-2   0
CN4-3   U      CN8-3   O
CN4-4   I      CN8-4   P
CN4-5   J      CN8-5   L
CN4-6   K      CN8-6   ;
CN4-7   M      CN8-7   .
CN4-8   ,      CN8-8   /