What's the best contact cement

[rdagger]

I bought a can of Weldwood neoprene contact cement.  It is the non-flammable water-based type.  After laminating a few practice pieces, I am not very happy with the stuff.  It take a lot longer to dry then the 30-40 minutes claimed.  Also the laminate tends to come apart unless you hold it down for a while.  Also it tends to have an inconsistent holding strength.  As far as being water-based I've already ruined to paint brushes.

Does the flammable stuff work better?

[DrewKaree]

I bought a can of Weldwood neoprene contact cement.  It is the non-flammable water-based type.  After laminating a few practice pieces, I am not very happy with the stuff.  It take a lot longer to dry then the 30-40 minutes claimed.  Also the laminate tends to come apart unless you hold it down for a while.  Also it tends to have an inconsistent holding strength.  As far as being water-based I've already ruined to paint brushes.

First things first, are you putting the cement on both pieces?  It sounds like a stupid question, but I gotta ask just in case.

Does the flammable stuff work better?

It definitely works better IMO, but since you've got the stuff already, give it a go with a foam roller.  They may have said to use a brush, but you get less consistent coverage with one.  Another thing, are you working inside or outside, and is it damp?  Those factors will change your "open" times and how long it takes for a good bond to set up.

One last thing, did you pick up a J-roller?  If you have a rolling pin at home you can use that instead, but after putting the two pieces together, it's a good practice to go over the entire piece you laminated to ensure a good bond.  Just putting a stack of books on the piece may work, but then again, it may not.  It'll be a hit or miss proposition that way.

Hope that all helped, or post more questions.

[rdagger]

It definitely works better IMO, but since you've got the stuff already, give it a go with a foam roller.  They may have said to use a brush, but you get less consistent coverage with one.  Another thing, are you working inside or outside, and is it damp?  Those factors will change your "open" times and how long it takes for a good bond to set up.

One last thing, did you pick up a J-roller?  If you have a rolling pin at home you can use that instead, but after putting the two pieces together, it's a good practice to go over the entire piece you laminated to ensure a good bond.  Just putting a stack of books on the piece may work, but then again, it may not.  It'll be a hit or miss proposition that way.

I put it on both sides with a brush.  I had trouble applying the cement because if I took too long the cement would start to peel up into little balls.   Despite all the problems it looks like the laminate is holding.  I think I will get a can of the flammable stuff before I do the actual sides, because I don't want to take any chances of ruining the laminate.

[Xphile]

agree with what DrewKaree said.. I use contact cement at work occasionally (cabinet making:-) and the waterbased is just a real PITA to work with.. get a small 3" short nap roller

http://www.houseoftools.com/product.htm?pid=198041

and after you pour the contact cement on the surface, try not to roll it so much as push it around with the roller at first - roll it for the even-spreading pass, but the more times you pass the roller over a surface that already has CC on it the more it will ball up on you..

use a little more than enough and you can always squeegee it off the edge onto a rag with the roller, but if you use too little you'll end up adding CC after the primary application is begining to set up and it'll ball up on ya.

Make sure you have good ventilation..that stuff takes brain cells quick..:-)

[Ken Layton]

Get the 3M brand contact cement. It has the best qauality and strong bonding.

[JAMMA Guy]

Titebond "Fast Dry" contact cement is probably the best ....

The smell will put you through the roof if your working inside with it. (drying time is more like 4-5 minutes ... super fast ... but it's less forgiving ... as soon ascontact is made ... that's it ... it's not going anywhere unless a propane torch is applied to it)


My personal favorite is Titebond "Post-Forming Neoprene Plus" contact cement.  

Cleans up easily with water ... should you get any on your laminate ... a damp rag will clean it off.

No smell ... you can work with it anywhere and not worry about being fumed to death.

Allows a little bit of movement should you accidently touch the other piece ... takes a little longer to setup (8 - 10 minutes) .... but not that much longer and holds extremely well.

Plain and simple ... its just more pleasant to work with than the "Fast Dry"  

As for applying it ... a 3" foam brush works extremely well (just small enough to still dip into those quart sized cans   )

[rdagger]

My personal favorite is Titebond "Post-Forming Neoprene Plus" contact cement.  

I bought the Weldwood neoprene contact cement and it is terrible.  I didn't think brand would make a difference.  Plus I think it is the only water based that my Home Depot carries.  The stuff just is very slow to bond.  It take several seconds of pressure for the adhesion to take place.  I had to clamp the edges because they kept peeling up.  I followed all the directions, but it was just a pain.

As for applying it ... a 3" foam brush works extremely well...  

Isn't a 3" brush too small for a cab side?  With the Weldwood it starts to dry quickly and if you run the brush over a dry section it balls up.  Ill head down to the corner hardware store and see if they have any of the Titebond.

[Ken Layton]

All of the pool table recovering guys around here swear by the 3M stuff. I've used the 3M stuff myself and I like it, but as usual have plenty of ventilation and NO SMOKING around this stuff!

[rdagger]

I just went to my local hardware store and all they have is the water-based Weldwood brand.  The guy there told me it's garbage, but that they can't sell the good stuff, because the AQMD has banned it in California.  He told me that the store could get fined for selling the flammable type.  I went to a local lumberyard and it was the same story.  All they had was a different brand of the water-based contact cement made by Liquid Nails.  I guess I'll try a few more stores and see if anyone has any of the flammable stuff left in stock.

[JAMMA Guy]

Titebond Post-Forming Neoprene Plus

Where I get mine from ... I don't buy anything local because all they carry locally is second rate garbage.  Titebond makes a high quality product ... I've never bought any of there products that didn't perform exactly as stated on the label.  

Anyway ... let me clue you in on something about the Neoprene type ...

Once you have your wood dowels laid onto the cabinet piece to be laminated ... and you've laid the laminate onto of the wood dowels and have aligned it correctly so there's excess overhanging all the edges.

Take the edge of the laminate and touch it to the edge of the cabinet piece ... it if sticks .... then its ready to be rolled on .... if it comes back up ... then your trying to apply it to early and you need to what a few more minutes before trying again.

Also ... don't let it dry completely either ... that is a huge mistake and makes rolling it on that much more work.  Let it get tacky to the touch but no contact cement ends up on your finger either or very little (it's better to roll it on a little to wet than it being a little to dry ... I learned that the hard way)

Don't coat it on very heavy either ... that makes the waiting time that much longer .... smooth it out somewhat thin ... it should look green.  If it looks blue you've gone a little overboard and will have to wait a bit longer before it sets up.

Weather and humdity make a big difference too ... so take that into account.  On a hot and low humidity day ... it will stick almost as soon as your done applying the contact cement to both pieces.

On a high humidity and cool day ... it will take twice as long before you can roll it on.

As for the 3" foam brush being to small ... I've done two cabinets with it so far ... and they worked out perfectly ... by the time you finish both pieces ... it's almost ready to be rolled on with very little waiting time ( this will also save you from getting into a hurry and making a big mistake).

[rdagger]

I couldn't find the Titebond, but I did find a pint of the DAP flammable kind.  Probably not as good as the Titebond, but I tried 5 stores and they all had the non-flammable types.  The flammable works much better than the non-flammable.  I bought a 4" foam roller which works great too.   I think one of the problems is that I live in a hot dry windy climate and you need to get the cement on fast or else it starts to bubble, peel or form web-like strands when you're brushing it on.

[JAMMA Guy]

if that's the case ... get a friend to coat the laminate while you coat the cabinet piece ... by the time you both get finished ... it should be ready to roll on  

[rdagger]

I'm done with one side and very happy with the results.  The flammable stuff is the only way to go.  Plus even though I was working outside in a breeze, I still got a good high from the fumes.  

[DrewKaree]

I'm done with one side and very happy with the results.  The flammable stuff is the only way to go.  Plus even though I was working outside in a breeze, I still got a good high from the fumes.  

Welcome to lamination!  I've found that even the next day or two I'll get a little loopy!  Glad that worked for you.  I didn't know you were in CA...the EPA standards will taint everything VOC related...maybe make a trip to a neighboring state if you're close enough, otherwise, take a look online for recommendations.  

Now that you've had some practice and some mistakes to learn from, make sure you let someone else know about it if they ask    Now post some pix for us to see your work!

[rdagger]

Now that you've had some practice and some mistakes to learn from, make sure you let someone else know about it if they ask  

I made every mistake.  Here is a list of mistakes:
1. Bought the non-flammable cement.
2. Ruined 2 good paint brushes.
3. Put wet laminate in the house and stunk up the place.
4. Pushed to hard while drilling through laminate with a forstner bit and ripped out a big hole.
5. Didn't support the laminate enough while using a jigsaw and the laminate split.
6. Tried to join the laminate to the MDF before it was dry.
7. Applied laminate to slow and it started to peel and ball up.
8. Left wet sheet of laminate outside on a sawhorse and the wind carried into the flower bed.
9. Cut laminate to close to the size of the piece, not leaving enough to route.
10. Cut laminate to big and pressed the j-roller to close to an edge overhang of the laminate and it cracked.

I'm laminating more than most on my cab (Front, Back, Sides, Top, Kick plates).  Even with all the mistakes, I was able to reuse most of the laminate.  Hope this helps.