Sad day...

[tbombaci]

While reading Usenet (RGVAC), I saw a post referring to the Galaxian sideart that I posted to the vector library. Someone else chimed in with this:
http://www.classicarcadegrafix.com/cgi-bin/store/checkout.pl?product=GGROUP&cart_id=6801171.15980

I know he is using my file(s) due to an error caused by distortion of my original pics.

It really turns my stomach to the point of not contributing any longer.

-Tom

[Generic Eric]

That is such a shame.

I shall boycott that site.  I will not buy from them.

I am sorry to see that you will not be vectorizing for public consumption any longer.

 

[whammoed]

Wow, that doesn't seem right.  I would think they would contact you to advertise it on their site like that.  Your email is right there.  Would you have had a problem with it if they had asked first?  Or would you like a cut of profit for its use? Or not want it used like that at all?  Just curious.
Anyway, please do not stop contributing.  I don't know what I would have done without some of your work for my most recent project.  I and many others appreciate what you have done.

[patrickl]

Even the thumbnails are exact copies from the vector libray (identical file size anyway).

It seems they (he?) are just charging the standard print prices for custom work. A custom artwork print of full sideart is $220 and a custom single (kickplate) sized piece costs $55. So it wouldn't be much different from people sending in your file and having them print it. Of course it's pretty rude of them not to contact you first or acknowledge your work in some way

Did you contact them about this?

[tbombaci]

I haven't contacted them at all.  I probably will not. No point really.

All they had to do was credit localarcade.com as the source for the art.  I am not looking for any kind of spotlight or anything. I did contribute the files for anyone to use. We all have. It is not technically illegal, just immoral.

May the Karma train de-rail at his station.

I will probably get over it sooner than later. It just really set the tone for a cruddy day.

-tom

[sirwoogie]

Granted this is a little shifty, they do give the following item at the bottom:

All images and contents of this website are copyrighted by either site owner or their respective owners and may not be copied or distributed in any way.

While I agree that origination of the artwork should be identified on the image selection, they're not charging for the rights of the artwork, just the printing.

On the flipside, localarcade does make a stipulation:


1. The art here is available for your personal non-commercial use.

Given that, what classic is doing is actually against the rules. This is all a shade of grey. All I can hope is that the contributors to the library continue, and that anybody using their hard work makes the appropriate reference to the original authors. Keep in mind  the reproductions are being made of original artwork too, but I don't know situation around the copyright/tm rights on those either.

[mahuti]

Please don't stop contributing. People are jerks. I personally knew this would happen, but I don't create stuff hoping that EVERYone will be altruistic... I just hope plenty of non-abusers get some good out of it, and I KNOW from the responses of people  that PLENTY have.

One thing that recently hurt my feelings a bit were some negative comments from the peanut gallery at RGVAC. Only a few people complained, but still. Some of them were talking about my site hurting the efforts of reproduction manufacturers because my making this art accessible for people with home printers was making it too easy to ignore companies that make repros. Their argument was that if those companies efforts to make a profit on the big names (Defender, Galaga, Centipede, Pac-man) then they would never have the money to make investments on doing less popular & rarer games. I think that's a bit off-base, but they have a right to their opinion. I posted a rebuttal, but my comments, and the complainants comments were all removed, without so much as a mention. It really irked me because someone there said that the defender side art stencils were stolen from arcadeshop.com! something like "and they stole the defender stencils from arcadeshop.com, Shameful!"  I PERSONALLY traced those defender stencils, and it took me a few days to do so. What a kick in the pants. It made me have some second thoughts for a few days too, but the positive response is so great that it makes it still worth it.

Every time I see something new up on localarcade.com, it makes me feel good.. to know that it might make someone elses day. At the end of the day, that's why I do it.

Just for the record, I just want to thank you and Zorg, and the Mametrix Reloaded, and all the other guys that have posted and contributed, and thanks for the tons of people that have sent me scans too. Basically thanks for helping me give something back to a group that helps me relive my misspent youth ever day.

Anyway, perhaps I will talk to them and ask for a mention. Mamemarquees now has a link to us on their custom page. Perhaps I can get them to give you (or localarcade) a credit as well. I've ordered from them in the past, and they've seemed very reasonable. Maybe it is a concession they will be happy to make.

[Nannuu]

If it makes you feel any better, now more people are able to restore their old cabinets and enjoy the classics.  I assume that everything in the library is going to get ripped off but I'm still helping byoacers and a new generation enjoy what I got to.  That is the way I try to look at it anyway.

[fredster]

I think all involved in the vector art lib should be very proud of themselves and the wonderful job they have done. You have contributed one way or another to the continuation of lots of games.

I have used the artwork on the site, it's top notch and takes a lot of work.  I'm sure it's a labor of love.

It's bound to happen.  It's kinda pushing it keeping those great artworks on the net.  The pacman side art is owned by Namco. Some people make a living printing that stuff and they don't like it at all when people give it away for free.

They are busting pinball sites for posting the manuals too.  From their point of view, posting free artwork takes bread off their table.  

And consider this, if you have made the art and somebody is using it for it's intended purpose, you both have won.  You know you did the work, we all know.

[DarkKobold]

Tom : Please don't stop! I used that Joust overlay you made... it looks amazing. I've been meaning to take pictures to show you how your art looks, and to thank you. It is at home now, so I can't. But you are appreciated.

Thank you.

[Floyd10]

 

[bwest]

Maybe the community should email bomb him and communicate our disgust!

[mahuti]

MMMMM... nooo.

Usually communication, without the bombing part is a good policy.

You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

[Ad_Enuff]

Personally, if you knew that teh artwork contained a flaw and that the original artwork files can be authenticated to be original and created by tbombaci, I would seek legal advice.

The least they can do is give tbombaci a percentage of the profits made from the sales.

Of course MIDWAY themselves might also object to profiteering from non licensed artwork!

Its worth considering.........I feel very sorry for tbombaci. His work has been fantastic.

I too wish him to continue.....I wish I had his skills.

[mahuti]

Whoa... legal advice? I don't think so. This is a courtesy issue.... that's about it.

We should give them the benefit of a doubt... perhaps it was just an oversight.

[patrickl]

The least they can do is give tbombaci a percentage of the profits made from the sales.

Apparently they are not charging extra for the artwork, only the printing costs.

This whole thing does indeed bring up the issue how the original copyrightholders are gonna react to the art library over time.

[Ad_Enuff]

This whole thing does indeed bring up the issue how the original copyrightholders are gonna react to the art library over time.

I have to agree, though no money has changed hands I can see some lawyer being an ass eventually.

With Retro arcade games becoming more and more popular due to MAME, I see the the database of artwork increasing in number of newer arcade titles which eventually will be its downfall.

We need to realise that point, and stick to early classics only. Marvel vs CAPCOM etc are still in production in some form or another and legailty issues of copyright must be heeded.

Though we also must be aware of things like TAITO's re-releasing SPACE INVADERS etc as new. This artwork would be fantastic in the Arcade Art Library, but would we breaching some copyright issue with it being re-released?

It does raise some issues.

[Wade]

I love the local arcade library and try to contribute in my own small ways (I can't vectorize images) with basic image uploads.

I hate to say this, but it is inevitable that either others use the artwork (like classicarcadegraphix) OR some of the original copyright holders take issue with some of the images.

I think the only way to battle this, is eventually the site will have to be private.  It will require a validated username and password for those who contribute or who are trusted personally.

As far as classicarcadegraphix...  Although I think they are sleazy anyway, I will give them the benefit of the doubt in this case.  It could be, that someone sent the images to be printed for their own cabinet.  Classicarcadegraphix doesn't necessarily know where they came from.  The buyer could have lied and said he created it.  What I'm saying is it may be someone else's fault that Classicarcadegraphix got their hands on the image.

But more than likely, Classicarcadegraphix was tipped off to the vector image library...

Wade

[tbombaci]

I found this ad in the California Extreme program book.  _EVERY_ piece of art in their ad was from the vector library. Kind of like rubbing salt in a wound!



They also "donated" a load of artwork for the raffle. It makes me fell good to say that the quality of the printout is less than stellar!!

I guess I am over it for now.

PS, I am working on PolePosition Side art.

-Tom

[Laurent]

Question: Do you think a lot of people will actually buy the marquee from him? Not that the vectorization is bad, you did a FINE work, but because people are IMHO tempted in customizing their cabinet, make it more personnal...

I know I will (CUSTOMIZE MY CABINET WITH MY OWN WORK)!

[tbombaci]

I didn't do the marquee.  

If you are going to buy from them, so be it. I am certainly not going to try and stop anyone from buying anything from anyone. Just wanted to mention he is using the Galaxian side art file from localarcade.com and not crediting the site.

I did see examples of their work and I was not impressed at all. The Centipede bezel colors were not even close to the original. I am not some sort of stickler for originality by any means, but it was so far off that it was hard to look at.  You may want to request a small sample from them. I dont see why the wouldn't send you one.

-Tom

[Laurent]

If you are going to buy from them, so be it.

I would NEVER do such a thing! I haven't implied to do so... When I said

[SirPeale]

Might want to read the message from Mahuti above regarding these guys.  They're claiming that they did the trace themselves by scanning the art in piece by piece.

[mahuti]

They're claiming they don't trace at all. They take high-res scans & piece them together and color correct them (which I've done myself in my past life in printing when working with wood flooring)

[tbombaci]

I find that hard to believe, sorry. When you print to a high end inkjet printer, a jillion dpi image will not look any better than an image at 200 dpi at 100%. I do this all day.

Besides, I think his ad is proof enough he is using art from localarcade.com.

Also, how the heck do you scan the side of a cabinet on a small scanner? Please...

Now I am angry.

-Tom

[patrickl]

If he really does use scans only then that he would need to use the vector library images to create that ad yes. You can't do that from scans. So yeah I would assume he used the vector library for that ad. I'm not sure if that's an issue, but it's not really non-commercial use.

I also have to say that you can very clearly detect a vectorized image. The edges are way to sharp to look like real screenprinted artwork. That would suggest scanning might be used in this business. So it's not so unlikely that he uses scans.

He claims he constructed the image from many scans. That does sound a bit unlikely, but then I did the same (be it at a much smaller scale) with some of the pieces of art that I have. It worked fine.

So I can believe his story, but I do still have a gut feeling something is going on.

[mahuti]

Well, I did what I could. I don't think I can add anything additional to this.

I'm sorry that you have been put in an uncomfortable position. You do incredible work, and I thank you for your time and contibutions. We don't do it for them, we do it for us, and that's enough. At least he's been made aware of the issue. Regardless of anyone else's ethics or approach, I think the arcade community has been made better through your contributions.

Thanks again.