what software do you use to design and modify the design for your cabs?

[hunky_artist]

Hi guys... starting my first (and probably only) cab within the next few months hopefuly.. i'm in the process of making a list of everything i'll need, and sorting out as many details as I can before I start.

I was initially thinking about making to-scale paper cut outs, of things like the monitor, and the sides of the cab... so i could figure out what needed to go where, and what angles, distances etc...

but i thought. hang on, i'm fairly computer literate... there must be a software way of doing that, one that will let me move an outline of the monitor around in the cab to let me see what fits where... and maybe even print it out when i'm done.

What software do any of you guys use? ...do you USE software even?

thanks

Darren

[NoOne=NBA=]

I used Freehand and Photoshop for the initial design, but would still recommend cardboard mockups, if you are doing a custom cab design.

That will let you tweak what you see on the screen, in real-life, before you commit to wood.

I had some minor changes I made during this phase, that made everything fit me perfect.

[bdsjake]

 I used pencil, paper, brain.    


seriously though, when I was marking out the cab on my 4x8 plywood sheet, I put the monitor on it and moved it around till it was in the correct place.  not precise but good enough for one scratch built cab.

[Minwah]

I used paper & pencil for a LONG time, trying designs etc.  This is good but you have no idea of scale - once you have some measurements, make a model (be it with paper/card on on a PC)...

My mate Mylo modelled my machine for me in Solid Works.  I wouldn't have a clue how to do it but the program looks great

[PixelCloud]

well Autocad is always a good choice, but it has a slight learning curve.

Solid edge is a cad program which models stuff in 3d, GREAT program if you can get your hands on a copy

[ericball]

Paper and pencil for 2-D, POV-Ray (free!) for 3-D renders.  Don't forget to also do a design of your material usage.

[PiNPOiNT]

I use alias wavefront's Maya all day at work so i know it inside out, so i used that to build it and texture it all in 3D before i built the real thing, and i could make all the adjustments ,and measurements before hand.

[RayB]

His is a great question, but I thought I'd narrow it down to what do you guys use for Control Panel design, since if printing an overlay, you need precise placement of the button holes...?

I've heard of people using Visio.

[foomench]

I was hoping to use Visio, not because I think it is the great solution, but because I have it and it should work. But when I tried the stencils available here (http://www.arcadecontrols.com/arcade_downloads.shtml#JackVisio and http://www.arcadecontrols.com/arcade_downloads.shtml#JasonVisio), Visio 2000 reported it couldn't open those files. Are the files bad, or is this just a version problem?

If anyone has stencils for Visio, I'd like to get them.

I'd think Illustrator would be a decent tool as well, and would make an easy transistion from layout to graphics. But I don't have Illustrator on my current computer.

-foomench

[RayB]

Illustrator? 30 free trial download from Macromedia.

[foomench]

Adobe Illustrator is what I was thinking, but hey, they have a 30 day trial too!

Note that this is not a trivial program to use. At least it didn't used to be. I used v. 3 and 4 on a Mac years ago. But it can be very precise. And once you have your layout, you can design graphics and even drive a vinyl cutter.

-foomench

[spriggy]

I use a simplified 2D CAD based program called 'DeltaCAD' for dimension based compilations.  It's very good and easy to use/learn, when comparing to higher end CAD programs like AutoCAD.

I can usually draw quicker with DeltaCAD than drawing it by hand/protractor/ruler etc..

[MonitorGuru]

Modify the design?   Ummm.... circular saw, jig saw, hand saw, orbital sander....

I'm a software developer by profession.  We don't need no steeiinkin designs!  Just hack it!  



Seriously... I only do a few sketches and do a ton of measurements before I start cutting.  I just cant cut straight so the orbital sander helps fix the problems, but I have never significantly changed designs other than erasing lines on wood that didn't look right.

[hunky_artist]

yeah but i need to figure out the size and shape of the cab sides depending on where the monitor can be placed... im not using any pre-made cab plans (lusid etc). So it's either software or scale paper cutouts..... i just figured software would be more... 21st century, lol

i'll look into some of the options above. thanks guys

[Sylentwulf]

I used visio, and I used those templates and they loaded up fine. You can get an older version of the final I used from my webpage at:
http://www.electricquarter.com/Wulfpanel.vsd

I don't know how much that will help, but you can probably pull the buttons, joysticks, and trackball templates off of mine and drag it onto yours, or just use mine, or modify it, whatever.
The only thing to remember on mine is that it's labeled a 3" trackball, but it's actually sized for a 2.25" trackball, I just never got around to editing the label on the template.

[paigeoliver]

I drew mine on a piece of wood using a marker, 2 foot level and a tape measure.

Came out OK I think.



Obviously isn't done yet.

[foomench]

I used visio, and I used those templates and they loaded up fine. You can get an older version of the final I used from my webpage at:
http://www.electricquarter.com/Wulfpanel.vsd

I downloaded your file and it opened fine in my version of Visio. Thanks!
-foomench

[ras2a]

AutoCAD 2004! Good proggie if you can get it.  Would have used Solid Works but don't have time to learn a new package at present

[pointdablame]

Solidworks really is great if you have the time to learn it and access to the program in the first place.  I took an introductory class in it last year, and it really is great.  Haven't used it in a while though, so I've probably forgot a lot of it though heh

[ras2a]

Yeah, Solid Works and Inventor are excellent packages, I've played around with them at work as our drawing office was trialling them at one point.  Hey, those 3D puck things are SUPERB too...l tried using one at an Autodesk University once - Take a little getting used to but once you get the hang of it, you wonder how you lived without one!

Anyways back on topic.  In addition to AutoCAD, I've used Jasc Paintshop Pro (my fav), Adobe Illustrator, Adobe Photoshop and MSPaint (honest ).  I'd like to check out some of the fancy stuff such as Visio, 3DMax (is that right?), Lightwave etc... but I think this is overkill and is not necessary.  Gotta admit some of the results are VERY cool though

Craig

[F1r3f1ght3r]

Visio

[Tailgunner]

Rhino3D

[hunky_artist]

hmm... i HAVE Paint Shop Pro and use it as my main graphics editor... but how would it be useful to make to-scale plans that can be edited?

can you do that in it?

[ras2a]

I use Paint Shop Pro for graphics not for accurate drawings...you can use the built in rulers and grid/guides, but it's too much messing about.  You'd be much better using something like AutoCAD if you can 'get hold' of it. You can then pre-determine scales/measurements etc. before starting

Craig

[Tahnok]

Visio is extremely good for CPs, but not so much for full cabinet plans. If you can learn it, use AutoCad.

[Zinfari]

I started in Visio and ended up with Illustrator and Photoshop because Visio just couldn't do everything I wanted.  (Be forwarned though.... there is a definate learning curve.  It can be done with out any training, but it can be frustrating.  I'm talking from exp.  I figured it out... but some of it just wasn't real logical the way Visio feels, but you can do WAY more when it comes to design of a CP with the Adobe products.)

-Zinfari

[hunky_artist]

thanks guys, ill see if i can 'get hold' of autocad first.... then go with some other suggestions maybe.

You've all been a big help, thanks!  

[photorock]

        I wouldn't use AutoCad unless you have experience with it. It's one of the hardest pieces of software to learn and use. Try Casmate instead, smaller program and easier to learn and use, with alot of the great features of AutoCad.
        It's nice to have a 3D rendering of your CP or Cab, but is it worth the extra effort. Personally I use CorelDraw (perfect for 2D rendering), Illustrator and Photoshop.

[ras2a]

Id have to disagree sligtly, AutoCAD is one of the most intuitive pieces of software I've used.  Certainly there 'is' a learning curve as with most of these type of apps.  But simply going through a few basic tutorials in the help system is enough - use of  layers, costruction lines, basic line work, blocks, offsetting, rotation blah..i.e. rudimentary functionality, should prove sufficient to get ...were now talking about delving into command line, or extended 3D/Iso usage

Still if you are really averse to learning a new proggie then stick with something you know.

Craig

[hunky_artist]

thanks guys, I'll look into all of them.... I just needed some names, as I genuinly didnt have a clue where to start looking for design/layout software.

as always (i've learnt so much whilst lurking here voer the last year or so.. only recently i've gotten involved due tue building it this year finally) you've been really, REALLY helpful!

thanks again!  

[ras2a]

hunk_artist!  I agree, these boards have some of the most helpful and pleasant people I've ever encountered.

It's a pleasure using these boards  

Craig

[photorock]

        I'm sorry ras2a, I disagree.  These days any user should be able to open a piece of software and be able to use it. Now I'm now saying use it like a pro, but I mean draw a simple box or type some text and render it without having to read a tutorial. A user should be able to perform basic work in a program without help, tutorials or training.

        I'm no stranger to learning new software and using it from Corel to Novell and I've been using design software for years and AutoCad is by far the most confusing piece of software I ever used with the exception of maybe SMS. No user should have to go through a tutorial to learn to draw a box, move a box, add some text, etc., if they do then the software is far to complicated and probably layed out wrong. Most users here are able to design a simple CP layout in Visio without any prior training or knowledge. Tutorials are great for advanced work but for basics they are a pain.

        Users should be able to learn some basics on their own in 15 to 30 min. without a tutorial. People lose interest if the learning curve is to high and tutorials can take hours to complete and even longer to learn.

        I know from your post that you know alot about AutoCad, my hats off to you, becouse I had a hard time with it. Casmate, Esob, etc. no problem. This is not a knock against you but please don't tell people "Still if you are really averse to learning a new proggie then stick with something you know" becouse the whole idea here is the sharing of knowledge so everyone can build bigger and better projects.

        ras2a I hope I haven't offended you becouse that wasn't my intention, if I did I apologize.

PhotoRock

[Sylentwulf]

re:    "I'm sorry ras2a, I disagree.  These days any user should be able to open a piece of software and be able to use it. Now I'm now saying use it like a pro, but I mean draw a simple box or type some text and render it without having to read a tutorial"

You would think that, but it took me so long to figure out how to draw a circle and fill it in with a color on photoshop, that I finally gave up.

[ras2a]

I'm sorry ras2a, I disagree.  These days any user should be able to open a piece of software and be able to use it. Now I'm now saying use it like a pro, but I mean draw a simple box or type some text and render it without having to read a tutorial. A user should be able to perform basic work in a program without help, tutorials or training.

This is fundemental functionality that can be performed by anyone with any knowledge of windows based apps (if you're using that OS)...i.e. there are readily available toolbars for the creation of lines, boxes, spheres, text etc...all clearly labelled with nice little icons! as in 'any' other app.  Not really that difficult...which version are 'you' reffering to?

I'm no stranger to learning new software and using it from Corel to Novell and I've been using design software for years and AutoCad is by far the most confusing piece of software I ever used with the exception of maybe SMS. No user should have to go through a tutorial to learn to draw a box, move a box, add some text, etc.

As I've said, with the latest version they shouldnt have to...it's all there quite clearly.  Basic use is straightforward enough to pickup.

Users should be able to learn some basics on their own in 15 to 30 min. without a tutorial. People lose interest if the learning curve is to high and tutorials can take hours to complete and even longer to learn.

Fully agree, and they certainly should be able to, with Autodesks latest incarnation.

I know from your post that you know alot about AutoCad, my hats off to you.

Not really, I learned most from my time as a CAD trainee technician, but I'm certainly NOT an expert by any stretch of the imagination ...and that goes for any design/CAD s/w

please don't tell people "Still if you are really averse to learning a new proggie then stick with something you know" becouse the whole idea here is the sharing of knowledge so everyone can build bigger and better projects.

Maybe you misunderstood...averse simply means, reluctant or hesitant...not "if you aren't clever enough"  I wasn't being defamatory.  I hope my posts 'may' have been of some help to hunky_artist in guaging different types of software used in our projects!

ras2a I hope I haven't offended you becouse that wasn't my intention, if I did I apologize..

I'm Not offended in the slightest mate...so no need for apologies.  As I've said in other threads, this board is probably the most helpful and 'pleasant' board I've ever used (seriously).  But if we 'all' agreed on 'everything' what a boring place it would be.  We all have our own opinions after all and that's a good thing

Craig

[SirPoonga]

I found these
http://www.ribbonsoft.com/qcad.html
http://free-cad.sourceforge.net

[ras2a]

Cheers SirPoonga.  This also looks ok...well it's freemans anyway:

http://www.cadvance.com/65form.htm

Say's it retailed for around $2000 back in 95'

some more:

http://www.graebert.com/FelixCADlt_promo.html
http://www.justcad.com/downloads.html

Craig

[photorock]

"You would think that, but it took me so long to figure out how to draw a circle and fill it in with a color on photoshop, that I finally gave up."

        You're right about Photoshop, it is hard to get the hang off. But in it's defence Photoshop is a raster based, resolution dependent program for image manipulation and not really meant to provide vector based functions, although you can do some basic stuff in it. Photoshop is usually used to create an image which is then placed in Illustrator and text and other vector graphics are created in it. Adobe products have an anoying feature where toolbars are located inside toolbars and can be confusing. Although I guess there are ways around this by using keyboard shorcuts, etc.

           Anyway back to the question at hand, you could use CorelDraw or Adobe Illustrator, both have fully functing tryouts available and they are fairly easy to use.

This is fundemental functionality that can be performed by anyone with any knowledge of windows based apps (if you're using that OS)...i.e. there are readily available toolbars for the creation of lines, boxes, spheres, text etc...all clearly labelled with nice little icons! as in 'any' other app.  Not really that difficult...which version are 'you' reffering to?

         Your right the toolbars are there (I'm using 2002) with nice little icons and so on, but it is confusing. Say for instance you wanted to draw 3 rectangles freehand, you have to click on the rectange icon, click and drag and click again to stop it and then click the icon for box number 2 and repeat the proces. That's nine mouse clicks to make 3 boxes.AutoCad is just full of that type of confusing features. It's a waste of time and becomes anoying after a while.  I've used software like that before, after a while it is a pain. Don't get me wrong, AutoCad is an amazing piece of software (best in the business), but a little more effort on user useability would make this an even more awsume program.

[depressd]

Sketchup is another great program. It's a lot easier than your typical cad program. There are tons of video tutorials on there website.

[ras2a]

[quote you have to click on the rectange icon, click and drag and click again to stop it and then click the icon for box number 2 and repeat the proces. That's nine mouse clicks to make 3 boxes.AutoCad is just full of that type of confusing features.

There are plenty helpful right-click context menus!.  Once taking the time to click an icon for the creation of a 'rectangle' and then having clicked 'once' to initiate the box creation tool and then again to stop it you simply right-click and say 'repeat', this then instigates the previous command.  Simple really?...obviously a beginner wouldn't know this though.

Also, IMO using a whole '9' clicks to get 3 boxes isn't particularly convoluted...or time consuming.  Other programs require this sort of interaction for basic tasks - Try making 3 selections in Paint Shop Pro, you still have to 'deselect' your selections which to my mind is 3 operations: 1, select icon 2, click and drag to create selection 3, deselect.  Of course you could employ the shift key for multiple/disparate selections but then again a beginner wouldnt know this. Im not saying AutoCAD is the most easy to use piece of software around.  But for 'basic' use (which is what we are getting at), I don't thinks it's as difficult as you're making it sound.

You're not that keen on AutoCAD (from a beginner's perspective at least) - no probs....I'd chuck it in the bin too if only I had a copy of SolidWorks.  I just don't fancy forking out 5 grand for the office professional edition!  Anyways, back on topic (apologies).

For plans, I'd use

- Free CAD software (first choice...its cheaper   ) and probably simpler to use
- AutoCAD 2000, 2002 or 2004
- Adobe Illustrator (superb vector based program...does anyone know if raster material can be imported into illustrator ?)  Gotta spend more time with this

For artwork etc:

- Jasc Paint Shop Pro (cheap with good feature set)

Craig

Craig

[ras2a]

Hey depressd

I've just been having a gander at Sketchup.  It looks great, do you actually use it? if so how easy/intuitive is it to use?

Cheers

Craig