Mounting the computer in the cabinet -- case or no case?

[sofakng]

Just wondering what everybody's opinion was on whether or not I should mount the computer inside the cabinet with it's case or without.  In other words, if I should mount the actual motherboard pcb to the side of the cabinet, or if I should just stick a whole computer case in there and secure it with L-brackets or something.

I'm thinking that if I don't use a case it will look slightly cooler (if somebody opens it they will see all circuit boards, etc).  If I wanted to do it this way, what would I need to mount the motherboard, etc, so it's not directly touching the wood?

[APFelon]

When I MAME'd my Wrestlefest machine, I mounted the motherboard to the side of the cabinet by using the spacers that already came with the Wrestlefest PCB-- no case. I wanted it to look as much like a real arcade machine inside and out, and plopping a computer case on the bottom of the machine would have been antithetical.

I keep my machine running 24/7, and heat has never been an issue.

APf

[whammoed]

You can mount the motherboard with "pcb mounting feet".  Happs and Bob Roberts sell them.  I would mount it to the cabinet without a case.  I like the feel of a real arcade cab inside and out and this helps.  On my cocktail cab I had no real choice though, not much if any room for a case.  Here is a picture of them in use:

[sofakng]

Can I pickup PCB mounting feet at Radio Shack or Home Depot?  I've mail ordered so many times...

[SirPeale]

When I MAME'd my Wrestlefest machine...

I'm doing one right now!  Do you have some pictures of yours?

I wanted to do a 4P CP, but couldn't find the room.  I'm thinking about removing the front panel and taking one of the coin doors out.  Kind of senseless having two doors with only a 2P CP.

Sorry for the hijack!

[whammoed]

Can I pickup PCB mounting feet at Radio Shack or Home Depot?  I've mail ordered so many times...

Unfortunately I haven't seen these in any stores.

[whammoed]

You can also buy some small plastic rigid (pvc) tubing from home depot, cut it in short lengths, and get some screws that pass all the way through.  Just put them in between the motherboard and cabinet and screw it down.  Not as elegant but it is functional.  I have mounted keyboard hacks using this method.

[APFelon]

When I MAME'd my Wrestlefest machine...

I'm doing one right now!  Do you have some pictures of yours?

I wanted to do a 4P CP, but couldn't find the room.  I'm thinking about removing the front panel and taking one of the coin doors out.  Kind of senseless having two doors with only a 2P CP.

I do have pics, but it really isn't much to look at... It's just a Wrestlefest cabinet with a Street Fighter style button layout. Aesthetically just like the old Wrestlefest machine, just with a Athlon 2100+ inside instead of the Wrestlefest PCB. I still have the Wrestlefest marquee on it... Heh. I have always been a fan of function over fashion.

APf

[Chris]

You can also buy some small plastic rigid (pvc) tubing from home depot, cut it in short lengths, and get some screws that pass all the way through.  Just put them in between the motherboard and cabinet and screw it down.  Not as elegant but it is functional.  I have mounted keyboard hacks using this method.

Home Depot has nylon spacers for this purpose in their specialty hardware drawers.  Definately not as easy to deal with as a proper mounting foot...

Hey, I just had an idea... what about T-nuts and the small brass hexagonal spacers used for motherboards?

--Chris

[sofakng]

I've sent an e-mail to Bob Roberts to see what his prices are...  That's probably the way I'd prefer going.  If I don't do that I'll try that plastic pvc piping.

How did you guys mount the power supply? ...and how did you secure the PCI cards?

[Kremmit]

Lots of ideas for dirt cheap mounting in here:
http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=21159;start=msg171167#msg171167

If you've got PCI cards you're worried about, you might try stealing the slide-out Motherboard tray from a PC case- lots of these have the card retainer attached.  Or, cut up a case to use just the tray and card retainer.  Then mount the tray directly to the wall.

Power supply- I'd mount it to the floor, with the fan side right up against the back wall.  Cut out a hole for the fan, so it can exhaust it's hot air OUTSIDE the cab.  Or if it doesn't fit there, run some ducting to a vent hole wherever you can.

[MnMCaputo]

sofakng, computer cases have come a long way in design, ie: allowing 120mm intake fan on the front, 2 80mm fans in the back, potentially 1 or 2 fans on the side, as well as the ideal, blow hole which sits on top right between the cdrom and the powersupply.  I used an IR temp gun, and actually found my case temp and cpu temp was actually 4degrees C cooler in the case then out of the case.  This is my case:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=11-182-507&DEPA=0
then i added this on the side right above the cpu heatsink:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=51064&item=3486418991&rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V

[sofakng]

Well, I'm actually not too worried about heating issues.  I'm just curious as to the look of the cabinet -- whether having an open-computer (eg. motherboard just mounted by itself on the wall) looks cooler than having a computer case sitting on the bottom of the cabinet.

[whammoed]

See the picture i posted previously for securing the pci cards...just bend some aluminum flat bar into shape with a hammer and vise and drill some holes.  To mount the ps use some L brackets or make your own out of aluminum angle.

[sofakng]

A bunch of great suggestions, thank you.

L-brackets for the power supply sound like a great idea.  As for the PCI cards I'll have to fool around with this a bit...

I might order PCB mounting feet from Bob Robert's... If I remember correctly, he quoted me something like $8 for a set, shipped.  Shipping was $6 though (3x the price of the actual part... ouch).

What about looks?  (case vs no case) -- What do you guys vote for?

[Chris]

A bunch of great suggestions, thank you.

L-brackets for the power supply sound like a great idea.  As for the PCI cards I'll have to fool around with this a bit...

I might order PCB mounting feet from Bob Robert's... If I remember correctly, he quoted me something like $8 for a set, shipped.  Shipping was $6 though (3x the price of the actual part... ouch).

What about looks?  (case vs no case) -- What do you guys vote for?

No case will always look more like a real arcade cabinet.  For me, I went caseless because it was hard to work around the case.

[Ghoward]

I thought about this one a lot too but in the end came up with the following idea....

I installed a pull out draw above the sub woofer and mounted a rack mount pc on it. It looks really nice and keeps all the pc parts safe inside a case.

Gary

[Wade]

It might look cooler to have the MB mounted loose in the cab, but it is far smarter to use a PC case and mount that inside the cabinet.  Cooling is likely better, and it is much easier to work on if you have problems.  Just remove the entire case and plug it into a monitor and keyboard somewhere else.  Otherwise, if you are trying to diagnose problems or what not, you have to fiddle with it all inside the cabinet, which in my experience has been a real pain.  I have Mame cabs set up both ways.

Wade

[sofakng]

Good point about diagnosing problems if you don't have a case in the computer, but I kind of like the idea of having the circuit boards to look at instead of a big ugly computer case.

I'm still not 100% sure yet, but one more question...

How do you mount the hard drive?

The motherboard would use pcb mounting feet, the power supply could use l-brackets, but what about the hard drive...?

[sjgrover]

In my mini I mounted the MB on the side with the PCI slots at the top.  I bent the lower tab of the PCI boards to wrap around the edge of the mother board - this prevents them from pivoting out of their slot which was what they were tending to do.

All of the drives were secured with pieces of industrial strength velco - I'm amazed at how much force is required to release a 2"x4" section of this stuff.

I'll admit that I used leftover parts and wasn't overly concerned about damaging or otherwise shorting anything out, but the parts have remained secure and the system is stable.

[NoOne=NBA=]

Well, I'm actually not too worried about heating issues.  I'm just curious as to the look of the cabinet -- whether having an open-computer (eg. motherboard just mounted by itself on the wall) looks cooler than having a computer case sitting on the bottom of the cabinet.

That's never been a real issue for me.
Nobody has ever even asked to look INSIDE my cabinet.
I just saved myself all the trouble, and chucked my comp in--case and all.

I don't really understand the comment from Chris, that it's harder to work around the case, either.
I can pull my entire computer out the back of the cab (with wires attached) if I want to do stuff to IT.
I can also get it completely out of the cabinet by disconnecting a few wires, so that it's not in the cabinet at all.
This will let me drill extra holes, or whatever in the cab, without getting sawdust all over the motherboard/power supply/etc...
That seems much preferable to me in terms of ease of use.

[patrickl]

I guess it's a case of "classical looks" against "practical sense":
- Taking it out of the case is more work, can give heat problems, but looks more authentic.
- Putting the whole case in is much more practical, but it doesn't look likje a real cab.

[MiKman]

I mounted my motherboard etc. to a slide out shelf. I guess it was just because the only case I had for it was a huge oversized tower that wouldn't fit in my cabinet.  so it was mount the stuff outside of a PC case or buy a cheap case. I can rollt he shelf out the back of the case and ork on it really easily if I need to and heat doesn't seem to be a problem for me, so far...

[SirPeale]

I do have pics, but it really isn't much to look at... It's just a Wrestlefest cabinet with a Street Fighter style button layout. Aesthetically just like the old Wrestlefest machine, just with a Athlon 2100+ inside instead of the Wrestlefest PCB. I still have the Wrestlefest marquee on it... Heh. I have always been a fan of function over fashion.

Yeah, that sounds like mine.  I had to cut a new CP for it though.  Thinking of an american flag theme for it.

[NoOne=NBA=]

- Putting the whole case in is much more practical, but it doesn't look likje a real cab.

I would worry more about "Welcome to Windows" as it fires up, and the frankenpanels, than what the INSIDE of the cabinet looks like, if authenticity were a goal of mine.

I have seen my computer exactly ONCE in the past year.
I don't remember what I was doing that day; but I needed to disconnect my USB hub, or something.

[patrickl]

- Putting the whole case in is much more practical, but it doesn't look likje a real cab.

I would worry more about "Welcome to Windows" as it fires up, and the frankenpanels, than what the INSIDE of the cabinet looks like, if authenticity were a goal of mine.

I have seen my computer exactly ONCE in the past year.
I don't remember what I was doing that day; but I needed to disconnect my USB hub, or something.

Heh, OK, good point

Anyway, I'm not the right person to defend decasing, but I got the impression that people do that mostly because of "authenticity" (maybe in a cocktail cab it's for space issues)

[MnMCaputo]

sofakng, to attach your harddrive, just use 4 single L brackets, the type you can get a bag of like 10 at home depot for like 2 bucks, you can probably use them for your cdrom/ dvd rom

[NoOne=NBA=]

Wait a minute!!!
What authentic arcade machines have CD-roms?

[rdagger]

Another  reason to go with the case:

Computers generate stray electromagnetic radiation. This radiation is emitted at various frequencies and can can cause radio frequency interference (RFI).

The reason computer cases from Dell and other dealers are made of metal or have a metal lining under the plastic is because the FCC requires a Class A or B certification for such equipment.

[Chris]

I don't really understand the comment from Chris, that it's harder to work around the case, either.

My cabinet is not particularly large; the case was wedged beside of the coin door, and putting it in or taking it out had a tendency to crunch connectors.  The floppy and CD-ROM were difficult to reach through the coin door, and one wrong move caused a dropped floppy or CD and the whole PC had to come out to retrieve it.  I already had the sides off because I was using hard drive connectors to power fans and the coin door.  So for my setup, it was more practical to ditch the case.  I ripped the 5-1/4" drive cage out of the case and mounted it to the top of the coin vault for access to drives; the 3.5" drive cage came out to mount the hard drive.  The motherboard has integrated sound and video, so there are no cards to worry about.  So for me, it made more sense to mount it on the wall.

Here it was was in the case:



Here it is now (before cleaning up the wiring):



That doesn't mean directmounting is better; it only means direct mounting was better for me.

--Chris

[paigeoliver]

Whoa there authenticity freaks!

The computer in the case is the authentic route.

Go look inside ANY PC based arcade game, and you will find the computer in the case every single time.

Pump it Up - IN THE CASE
Ultracade - In the case.
That 3 screen boat racing game - In the case.
Tournament Solitaire - In the case (funny case though).
PGA Golf- In the case.
etc, etc, etc, etc.

[whammoed]

I think he is wanting the feel of an older arcade cabinet.  I wouldn't put ultracade and authentic in the same sentence.

[Chris]

I wouldn't mind n industrial case that could be bolted to the wall, but those are expensive... failing that, a nice flat pizza-box case on the floor could do, but again, I'd screw it down.  

[Daniel270]

For those of you who've gone the case-less route, is dust a problem?  I'd worry about potential shorts and such if the case weren't there to deter dust and fuzz on the MB...

[Howard_Casto]

Dust doesn't cause shorts.  I've worked on computers with 3 inches of dust on the mb, LITERALLY.  They still run like a top.  

[paigeoliver]

I think he is wanting the feel of an older arcade cabinet.  I wouldn't put ultracade and authentic in the same sentence.

Ok, then for an older example, there was an old Atari 800 based platform, whose name escapes me now, which had the whole system inside the cabinet. I know they had Boulder Dash available for it, Max-A-Flex, that is it!

http://www.myatari.net/issues/jan2003/maxaflex.htm

[Darkstalker]

"For those of you who've gone the case-less route, is dust a problem?  I'd worry about potential shorts and such if the case weren't there to deter dust and fuzz on the MB... "

Dust won't short anything out (Unless it's metalic flakes or something similar), but it CAN cause overheating problems in newer systems that run hotter.  Just clean out your cabinet every once in a while with an air compressor outside, or get a special electronics vaccum.  *DO NOT*, I repeat *DO NOT EVER* clean out your PC or electronic gear with a standard vaccum or shop vac.  You will do so much ESD damage you will end up having to replace every part of your PC.

[patrickl]

A bit OT perhaps, but I have never heard of ESD damage from a vacuum cleaner. Do you mean one with a metal nozzle or something? I don't see how a vacuum cleaner in general would cause ESD damage. Personally I'd use a vacuum for the big layers of dust (these impede airflow and can cause overheating problems), but I'd leave the fine dust coat on the MB (or use compressed air).

BTW there is no generic answer to overheating questions. The only generic one I can think of is that if a components overheats you need to cool it better Even components like hard disks or videocards can overheat. Well they won't die overnight, but running components hot can severely limit their lifetime.