Dual Monitor Cabinet (OMG I'm making a hardware entry)

[Howard_Casto]

I rarely get to mess with the hardware end anymore so I am jumping the gun a little by making this post now.  

Regardless I recently purchased a interact mobile monitor 5.4 inch lcd and I'm about to put it in my cabinet as a secondary Monitor.  To my knowledge this will be the first dual monitor mame cabinet that actually makes use of the second screen (there is an xbox cab out there that simply displays the same picture on both monitors but imho that isn't particularly useful).  

The screen is rca input only, but upon cracking it open i'm confident that I can hack in vga or at the least svideo input.  

Now the question is, what do I do with it?  Well dk sorta supports dual screen, but i'll be writing a custom app that'll run independant of the fe and anything else for that matter and get data from any app that cares to broadcast to it.  

Also I am in the process of tweaking/hacking various emus that can take advantage of the new real-estate.  I have already successfully re-written my visual pinmame wrapper to automatically maxamize the pinmame dmd display on the secondary monitor, making  it nice and big.  This way the table is on one screen and the scoreboard is on another, as it's supposed to be.    Chankast supports emulation of the little memory unit lcd displays now.  I think it would be good to position those up on the secondary display as well.  It should be virtually the same hack, in principal.  My biggest challenge will be making a patch for mame that takes the dual screen games (playchoice, ect) and actually spans them over two real displays, thus the games are displayed as they are intended.

Of course there will be a great deal of hacking on the hardware end too.  Mostly converting the signal and making a custom housing and adjustable mounting bracket for it.  

I am documenting the process and will have a webpage up in a month or so for anyone who is interested.  

I hope everyone is as excited about this as I am because by the time I am done, putting a second display on a mame cab will actually be practical as we will all have some actual software to run on it.  

I've already gotten the monitor to work as a secondary display using the tv-out of a second video card I had lying around.  Until I make further progress, enjoy this fuzzy pic of the monitor displaying wmp.  

[SNAAAKE]

[MadEditor]

This is great news... I just came accross this little baby

http://www.divineo.fr/cgi-bin/div-fr/vid-tft18

Small, nice and not too expensive, can even be integrated in a CP...

Keep us informed

[APFelon]

I'd love to get a second display going on my cab. I anxiously await to hear more of your progress.

APf

[danny_galaga]

i think i saw somewhere a guy who was going to have a secondary LCD screen. i think it was going to display game instructions or some such thing. is this the sort of thing you mean? and if so have i burst your bubble  

[mcdo15]

roflamo

here are some other board sites that have been going around latly...i intrestd in this idea casue it's unique and can serve other pupores...FM for more info..i'm going about this a differet way.

http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=17856;start=0     (displaying instrustions on various small LCD's)

http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=18850  (sweet looking lcd on cp)

http://bit-tech.net/article/136/1   (psone LCD)

[SNAAAKE]

I already know its gonna be as "unique" as Howard's spray painted ply wood box with the "unique" texture everywhere...THE HORROR KIDS !

[Matt, GoC]

i think i saw somewhere a guy who was going to have a secondary LCD screen. i think it was going to display game instructions or some such thing. is this the sort of thing you mean? and if so have i burst your bubble  

That might have been me you are referring to.  I am planning on having one on or above my CP that shows game time, button assignments, info about the game, tips, etc.
Howard, there are VGA compatable mini LCDs out there that should be much sharper than a composite one.  The image won't be downsampled and then resized for the LCD screen.  Hopefully yours will come out fine, but you won't be able to use fine lettering without it blurring alot.  I can't wait to see how it comes out though, as I'm still working on my second monitor on the planning level, not the implementation level.

[Howard_Casto]

Answering quesitons:

Text lcds don't count, there isn't much you can do with them.  

That one tft lcd on that panel is pretty cool, looks like someone beat me to it on the hardware end.  Regardless, it doesn't look like they are doing anything useful with it, which was my concern before.  

The psone lcd hack has been out for ages.  But again, nobody has used it yet.  There is a big difference between saying something is possible and actually going all the way with it.  

As I said, I'll be writing a slew of software to take advantage of this stuff. And I'll release it for everyone's benefit.  

[RacerX]

Mine is dual monitor in the sense that I have my cab running on the same computer that I surf on.  One monitor sits on my computer desk, the other is in the cab.  All they do is show the same picture, but it's cool when I have a group over because everyone can watch what's happening without having to be crowded around the cabinet.

I'll be looking forward to seeing how your project comes out, Howard.  I like the idea of having the pinball backdrop on an entirely separate screen like that.  

Sounds cool, despite what Snaaake says.  I guess if you had the second monitor do nothing except scroll through images of Street Fighter and Marvel characters, he would think it's the coolest thing ever.

[Howard_Casto]

Mine is dual monitor in the sense that I have my cab running on the same computer that I surf on.  One monitor sits on my computer desk, the other is in the cab.  All they do is show the same picture, but it's cool when I have a group over because everyone can watch what's happening without having to be crowded around the cabinet.

I'll be looking forward to seeing how your project comes out, Howard.  I like the idea of having the pinball backdrop on an entirely separate screen like that.  

Yeah I have a similar rig, that's where I got the idea.  I've been aiming to do this for ages, but I didn't have the money or time.  I'm glad I finally can.  I really appreciate your support.  I'll need beta testers for some of this stuff, would you be interested? (Don't know how your setup is, but if you have an extra monitor.....)

Btw, the pinball is frikkin awesome! I had it running and played for a few hours last night.  Unfortunately, the lcd isn't mounted yet and I have a sore neck from looking down where it was lying.  Oh well.... it was worth it.   Mame is gonna be more fun though.... It'll be great to play a full screen punchout and even mess with the playchoice games a little (right now I don't because it's so annoying that the screen is squashed.)

Anyway, suggestions are welcomed on the hardware end and software end.  

One thing I've already though of:  

I'm going to hack a usb gamepad and steal it's buttons and put them on the lcd housing.  I will rig the buttons to operate the dual screen apps.  That way I can scroll through a game faq about a game or browse it's artwork while playing it in mame at the same time.  

[paigeoliver]

The single best idea for a dual monitor cabinet I ever came up with was this.

Two identical cabinets side by side, each with 8-way, 4-way, 6 buttons, trackball and spinner. Run by a single computer so that they acted as a single cabinet with player one on cabinet one, and player two on cabinet 2.

It would support pretty much everything, without cramped panels, or being cramped up next to the guy next to you.

[Xiaou2]

 Good to see someone taking a stab at this...

  An interesting Idea I nce had was to use 2 monitors at a 90 degree angle from each other - seperaed by a 2way police style mirror.

 With this type of setup... the bottom monitor would be displayed in front... displaying the game itself.  The monitor behind the mirror could be made to show fullscreen backdrops (in game artwork - like asteriods has).

 It could also be displayed in reverse - so that the game is in front... and the 2nd monitor shows a floating Gui display.

 Then of course... there the need for 3 monitor games like
TX-1.  

 The ideas have been thought of - but nobody had built them because theres no software support for it.  One would hope that such features would get included in the official builds one day.  That and things like force feedback...

[Howard_Casto]

Well, if I do it properly I think I can get dual monitor support included in the offical builds of mame.  I just really suck at coding for mame so it'll take a while.  

paige, regarding your suggestion, that would be a mirrored display.  It's actually been done a few times I think and there isn't any hacking involved.  Basically all you need is a cabinet with a pc in it and another cabinet with cables running from that same pc.  Anyone remember that example?  I think the builder had one panel rigged for driving games and the other rigged for regular game.  

[paigeoliver]

Oh, I know that is what it is. I actually had the idea because I have seen a few 4 player Jamma games installed spread over two cabinets.

[Grasshopper]

A pity your LCD screen is so small. If it were full size, and better still if you had two of them, I can think of several applications for a two monitor setup.

First of all there were a handfull of classic arcade games that required more than one monitor. For instance there was a version of Darius that required 3 monitors, I actually saw one in an arcade years ago. I'm not sure whether MAME currently supports a three monitor setup though.

Or what about head to head driving games.

Or a cocktail table with two LCD monitors at 45 degree angles (one per player) so that the players can view their respective monitors at a comfortable angle (a bit hard to explain without drawing a diagram).

[RacerX]

Yeah I have a similar rig, that's where I got the idea.  I've been aiming to do this for ages, but I didn't have the money or time.  I'm glad I finally can.  I really appreciate your support.  I'll need beta testers for some of this stuff, would you be interested? (Don't know how your setup is, but if you have an extra monitor.....)

I could probably beta test.  The way I currently have it set up is with a splitter, but my video card does have two output jacks on it so I can have my Windows desktop span both monitors.  Is that the kind of setup it would take to do some testing?  Or would I need to use the video card for one monitor and my motherboard's onboard video for the other?

[nipsmg]

A pity your LCD screen is so small. If it were full size, and better still if you had two of them, I can think of several applications for a two monitor setup.

First of all there were a handfull of classic arcade games that required more than one monitor. For instance there was a version of Darius that required 3 monitors, I actually saw one in an arcade years ago. I'm not sure whether MAME currently supports a three monitor setup though.

...

Wasn't there an Xmen game that was 2 or 3 monitors.

[TalkingOctopus]

A pity your LCD screen is so small. If it were full size, and better still if you had two of them, I can think of several applications for a two monitor setup.

First of all there were a handfull of classic arcade games that required more than one monitor. For instance there was a version of Darius that required 3 monitors, I actually saw one in an arcade years ago. I'm not sure whether MAME currently supports a three monitor setup though.

...

Wasn't there an Xmen game that was 2 or 3 monitors.

There was a 2 monitor 6 player x-men game.  I don't think it works properly in MAME.

[Howard_Casto]

A pity your LCD screen is so small. If it were full size, and better still if you had two of them, I can think of several applications for a two monitor setup.

First of all there were a handfull of classic arcade games that required more than one monitor. For instance there was a version of Darius that required 3 monitors, I actually saw one in an arcade years ago. I'm not sure whether MAME currently supports a three monitor setup though.

Or what about head to head driving games.

Or a cocktail table with two LCD monitors at 45 degree angles (one per player) so that the players can view their respective monitors at a comfortable angle (a bit hard to explain without drawing a diagram).

I agree.  Luckily though that's only a physical limitation.  Now that I have a working secondary montior to test I might be able to address some of these games and work on their drivers so that others can use them on full-fledged two monitor cabs.  

For the record though, at this point, mame doesn't even support a two monitor setup.  I will be attempting to change the entire display code to support monitor enumeration.  

And yeah, the xmen 6 player version doesn't work yet.  I think it might actually have something to do with the dual display.  

[mcdo15]

The single best idea for a dual monitor cabinet I ever came up with was this.

Two identical cabinets side by side, each with 8-way, 4-way, 6 buttons, trackball and spinner. Run by a single computer so that they acted as a single cabinet with player one on cabinet one, and player two on cabinet 2.

It would support pretty much everything, without cramped panels, or being cramped up next to the guy next to you.

i was going to this this in a nintendo vs duel cab but opted out due to money concerns (also was gonna do 2 ps2 w/ link cable)  imagne the fun of light gun games or fps with no split screen..the glory

any way...be unique and do whatever you want personally... i'm doing a second lcd 7.2 above cp.  

[fogman]

Here's something funny, with my two monitor ATI AIW card, I can drag the pinmame portion to the other monitor, but it slowly makes its way back to the original screen.

Anyone know why?

[Generic Eric]

Can we hope to see something (a program perhaps, besides a text viewer...) that will display info from Hiscore.dat?  I think that would be a fine use for a second display.  

Mount your display and post pictures of it!  So we can see pinmame in action.

[Howard_Casto]

Here's something funny, with my two monitor ATI AIW card, I can drag the pinmame portion to the other monitor, but it slowly makes its way back to the original screen.

Anyone know why?

Yeah... if the pinmame window is manually dragged out of bounds or is larger than the screen you are dragging it to it automatically scrolls back.  It's actually in the mame code too, try it.  

My wrapper fixes this though, I'll let you know as soon as it's ready for prime time and you can try it.  

eric, of course the dats will be supported, but you do know that there isn't any data stored in the hiscore.dat don't you?  It's just a file that helps mame figure out where to store hiscores afaik.  

[Generic Eric]

oh

[AmericanDemon]

I've currently got a dual monitor setup.  Its not set up with Frontends yet.  Just regular windows.  Let me know when you get something together.  I would love to test it.

Some ideas.....  

The High Score idea is great
Maybe Move Lists for Fighters
Secrets for other games
Even a History of the game.

I've included a secondary monitor in my showcase design for uses of the above.  Just not sure how to get them to function.  Lets hope this does it.  

[Lilwolf]

Howard, wheren't you the one when I brought this near identical topic up 6 months ago the one who said it was not only a stupid idea, but then it quickly moved to how crappy the dual monitor cabinets suck (and others saying that they where pretty good)?

Anyway, I still love the idea of having a frontend 100% of the time in another monitor.  And always have a game running... so you move and select a game to launch... it would then kill the current game, and launch the next.  I couldn't do it easily since I haven't played with  (and dont believe I can can in java) capturing key strokes before mame.  

But you should be able to write a cool frontend for it...  Just capture the game select buttons and dont have them setup in mame.  Then send an ESC to quit mame... and launch the next.

[Howard_Casto]

No, I said that playchoice 10 cabs suck (they do) and I said the idea of having a front end on the secondary monitor is silly because you only need the frontend while the game isn't running and thus you are simply wasting space.  And in general,  I'll admit that I find two full-sized monitors on a cab are just  a waste of space, but I was humoring the others.  Afterall, it's their cabs, not mine.  

As I said, usefulness is the key

Dual monitors are always a great idea but only if implemented right.  We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, because imho having the front-end constantly running is neither pretty, nor useful, so I don't see the point.  



Off topic.... any of you guys out there know how to take good pictures of lcd panels and monitors while they are running?  I was trying to take some pics for you guys but one or the other ended up getting washed out and neither were in focus.  Any ideas?