Massive Newbie Questions!

[Bob Ceccarelli]

Hello and thanks first off for reading this. Here are a few *extremely* n00b questions coming from a starving college student who wants to make an affordable arcade system to relive the good ole

[Peeper]

...

In no particular order:

1) System Specs: I give all my respect to those who love the classic like Pacman and Galaga and whatnot... but my (and the rest of my roommates

[Bob Ceccarelli]

Yeah, I've been pretty 'sold' on the I-PAC since I laid eyes on the webpage.

Thanks for your response. Horizontal buttons it is! Still wondering how those 50 cent ones are...

Maybe someone will post the optimal [a.k.a.  minimal] setup that someone can get away with and still run all the games perfectly... I mean, no one wants to get a computer better than it has to be if it's just going to sit in a cabinet....

[Howard_Casto]

System Specs... your pretty good as you are, but if you dn't even have 128 mb of ram in the machie then that's your problem.  I have an amd athlon 900mhz with 512mb or ram and umk3 runs flawlessly.   As a matter of fact it'll run any mame game at full speed if the emualtion is complete. (Some games have piss-poor drivers which is the key to their slowness.) 512mb is a bit overkill, but if your going to be running some of the larger games then 256 is really a bare minumum as mame loads all of the game into memory while playing.  As for the geforce... some people sware by them, but it's a horrible vid card for an arcade cabinet.  (imeo anyway)  

Invidia makes processors geared for 3d gaming and their 2d acceleration support is questionable.  Also they often have less than par tv-out.  Stick with an ati, probably a newer radeon will give you good 3d performance and the 2d acceleration that you'll need.  I have a 7500 and it seems to run newer pc games like RTCW just fine.  I've been playing jedi knight 2 on it recently and couldn't find any slowdown.

[Bob Ceccarelli]

You bring up a few new/interesting points...

For one, on my 800 TBird I only have 256 RAM, which could in fact be the slowdown  I'm experiencing. Know, I am well aware of the GeForce TV-Out problems, but I plan on outputting to a PC monitor so that had never been in issue. Never thought about the ATI though.

Hell, if UMK3 runs flawlessly on your 900 with 512 RAM, than that's good enough for me! I'll probably get a cheap 1 gig board and load it up with RAM....

Thanks for your help!!
<btw JKII is the only FPS so far to get me to STOP playing CS.... gotta love it!>

[u_rebelscum]

1) System Specs: [snip] It plays all the oldies perfectly and all the Capcom fighters just swell. Unfortunately I have some pretty bad slowdowns on the later games. We need to be able to play KI and UMK3 flawlessly!

So here?s question #1: I?m thinking of plopping down the money for an Athlon 1.2gig combo. For those of you who have experience playing the more recent games, will this cut it? I?d love to get that board and a cheap GeForce 2 MX and maybe 128 ram? Will this do or am I going to need to invest in a GeForce 3 or *gulp* 4 TI? Am I going to need a ~1.6 gig chip?

As said by others, mame does not use hardward 3D, so you want a good 2D video chip.  A geForce 4 TI is good at 2d, and ATI radeons are supposed to be better at 2D (and cheaper).  Me?  I got a KyroII video card hooked to a PC monitor on my 1 gig athlon and am pleased with the setup.

2) Joysticks: After about a weeks worth of research it seems Happs Supers are the way to go. I?ve heard bad things about Ultimates and 4-ways are just out of the question. So, Supers for massive Street Fighter Alpha 3 action?

I have and like both supers and competitions, but both "click".  Some fighter people don't like this, so go to the 49 or 360 joysticks and set them up as digital joysticks.  Check some other posts for more information.

3) Buttons: This is really divided into 2 questions:
(a) Anyone know anything about the 50 cent buttons over at http://www.videoconnect.com ? I?d love to only have to shell out 50 cents a piece rather than $1.75 since I plan on using about 24 buttons..... (remember: starving college student here!!)

If you aren't too picky about what color you use, check the prices of each color of the happs buttons.  Some may be on sale.  When I bought mine (~6 months ago) the red buttons were on sale for $0.99.

4) Encoder: Looks like I?m going to have to shell out the $40 for the I-PAC. I tore apart a few keyboards and the encoders look simple enough to mess with, but my MAME-CADE is going to be for 2 simultaneous players, probably mashing many-a-key at once. I?ve read several problems with this cheap hacking way including ghosting or just keys simply not being recognized.

So, from the pros out there, should I just buckle down and get the I-PAC?

I-PAC is great, and half the price  of other encoders.  I like mine.  Keyboard hacks are unreliable and harder to do than use an I-PAC.  End of story.

Many many thanks in advance for anyone who took the time to read and/or respond. I hope to have a working cabinet this summer complete with *pure bliss*.

ARCADECONTROLS.COM 4 LIFE

Good luck, and have fun!

[Frostillicus]

I've been doing a bit of research myself for a while now - and when I called video connections the woman said the $0.50 buttons are leaf style buttons WITHOUT the leaft switch - which is the expensive part these days.

Apparently what happened  is that she sold like 3000 leaf switches to one guy in a HUGE bulk order - leaving her with some colored pushbuttons sans switches.

I checked on ebay and some dude was selling like 20 or 30 leaf switches for 49.99 first bid.....I'm going with microswitch.

As for the vid card - go with ATI - many folks trumpet the GeForce cards as the best 3d cards ever, but I disagree.  I've always had ATI - and my radeon 8500 rivals any geforce 3 out there.  (the geforce4 ti 4600 is like 400bucks - like 350 more than my 8500)
I remember having great tv out, multi monitor, and amazing 2d graphics on my all-in-wonder pro like 5 years ago ...and their stuff is even better now. the 7500 would be great for a dedicated cab.

[jelloslug]

I think the Happ supers were used in many fighting games but I think Capcom used ultimates with the stronger spring in the SF 2 games.  You might want to order the stronger spring for the supers when you order if you think you might want a bit less springyness in the stick.

[hyiu]

Hi there:

I'm running all capcom fighting games with my P866 with no lags... (but I do not play Mortal combat, so, donno about UMK3...) If you currently have a 800MHz, I would say first, try to increase your RAM first, if not,
then upgrade your CPU... (since when you upgrade your CPU, you can still use your RAM....) and if the extra RAM somehow solved your pblm, then you don't even need a new CPU !!!

also... when you say lack... what do you mean ?? the whole game keeps on jiggering all the time ??.... or just once in a while slow down for a couple of second ??....
Also, which Mame are you running ?? are you running on DOS ?? or Windows ?? (and which one ?? 95, 98,  2000, XP...) If its only jiggering once in a while (for a few seconds) and you're using Mame32 (windows version)... I've heard it might not be the CPU not fast enough, but its the windows "system restoration" safe feature kicking in eating part of your cpu for a couple of sec..... (or some other background process.....)

I've also heard that if you run DOS version, it might be faster... (but this is just what I heard, cos I never tried it myself....)

about joystick.... (my personal limited opinion....)
I've used both Super and Competition from Happs...
Super is good and the turn is perfect circle....
so, if you're playing street fighter series and you're
using Zangieff (which needs to do lots of 360 degree moves....) Super is perfect....
However, when I play, I like competition better, cos competition's turn is not a "TRUE" circle... but with a little "square"ish feel.... so, when you need to pull your stick to lower left corner to low block, you will actually have that "feel" and you know you're blocking....
when I'm using Super to play fighting games... too often I tired to block and I ended up just pressing "down" instead of "down left" and got my a** whiped...
So, depends on your preference....
I use 3/4 inch plywood for my control panel, and both
Super and competition can be mounted on without routing.... but Competition stick does stick out a little more than the Super.... (so far, this is the only 2 sticks I've used... I might try the J-stik later.... heee hee....)

and for I-pac.... I have heard great great things about it....... but if you're thinking about price..... (since you say you're a starving college student...) there might be another possible way to save some....
IF (and ONLY IF) you're using Windows version of Mame32... then you can go look for Microsoft Sidewinder GamePad (not the USB version, but the game port version...) if you surf around, you can find them about $5 each.... they can be daisy chained for up to 4 players... and you can hack them pretty easily... (I have hacked 4 myself....) and there is NO ghosting issues on those since they're designed for all players, all buttons to be pressed all at once..... each pad has 8 buttons plus a start button.... (so, each buttons to play most if not all arcade games.... plus even coin buttons....) if you're only building for 2 players.. then about $10 + S&H.... less than i-pac....

Down side to this is, i-pac is just 1 circuit board and everything there... and there is NO need to solder.... to hack a pad, you'll need to solder....
(I keep on saying I'll post pics... I actually have already borrowed a digi cam from my friend... hopefully... I'll post pics very soon....)

Sorry this ran on way toooooo looong.... hope it helps....

[Bob Ceccarelli]

Wow, thanks for all the response!!

Rebelscum:
"A geForce 4 TI is good at 2d, and ATI radeons are supposed to be better at 2D (and cheaper). "

ATI it is! Also, very interesting on those discount buttons. I'll be looking into that.

Frostillicus
That's interesting about the leaf switches.... aslo shatters any hope of extremely cheap buttons, lol. Also, thanks for the detailed perspective on the ATI. Whatever the 7500 is, I'll get it!!

jelloslug
Stronger spring, eh? Lemme just add that to the list of things to do....

hyiu
First off, I'm running Win 98, MAME .60, and the EmuLoader frontend. The lag I'm reffering to in the Mortal Kombat games is this: THe game starts fine, the menus are great, the character selection is wonderful, and the beginning of the fight is also fine.... but once the actions starts (ie the players jump into each other and start fighting) it starts to lag pretty bad and gets VERY jumpy, making it pretty unplayable....

This is the same for the NBA Jam/Hangtime series and the Killer Instinct's too. I'm pretty certain that a little RAM and CPU boost will do the trick. (And the ATI!!!)

Also, that's interesting about the Super joystick. Not being able to block is a definate problem. Anyone else have that problem? I'll have to look into that a bit more...

Finally, I love the Sidewinder idea!! Soldiering the hell outta those things is right up my alley. Are they USB? If you end up posting pics please tell us! I'm sure people will love a short tutorial on that ;-).

Thanks a lot everyone!! This might eventually become the standard Newbie FAQ thread!

[Bob Ceccarelli]

Me again.... just took quick trip to pricewatch....

ATI

[hyiu]

Hi Bob:

I see... it seems like its not just lagging once in a while... but once it starts, it lacks... I'll go home and try it out this long wkend... and see if it has that pblm....
(if I didn't forget, I'll post again on Tues....) but in your case, I think you'll probably need more ram/cpu....

and for the super joy... its not like it cannot block... when I play, I get intense... I pull in that direction, but not precisely lower left 45degree.... then it'll not click both microswitch since I did not pull at the precise angle... if you're one of those calm guys who stay cool all over the game.... and always pull perfect direction, then I guess there'll be no pblm.... but for competition, when you pull, you can feel a corner, so, you know you're hitting it....

and for the sidewinder, there are a few sites already out there showing steps by steps how to hack it !!!....
cos its very easy since the circuit board has test holes, so, all you have to do is cut the wire and solder it to the test holes.... I'll look around a little and see if I can find one of those pages who teaches you how to hack a sidewinder in detail....  Or anyone out there who knows right away (but I will try to post pictures asap....)

[hyiu]

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/surpluscomputers/micsidjoy.html

I think they have cheap sidewinders... heee hee....
but I did not order from them before.... last time I ordered, I think its comgeek.com.. but they don't have it anymore....


and as for sidewinder hack instructions...
I found 3 on the examples page here in BYOAC...
have fun....  

http://www.mameworld.net/emuadvice/shack.html

http://underworld.fortunecity.com/riven/208/

http://mason.gmu.edu/~ggillett/joystick/

[me]

yo

take my advice....

go with an ATI(RAGE FURY PRO) for the money ofcourse

go with perfect 360 degree from happ..(oh you have no idea until you try)trust me and spend a little bit more..

best joystick money can buy you....

go with a cheap EPOX board....1GHz and more then 512mb of RAM..(i only paid $84 for mine)

dont use mame32...use the command version of windows.

and the last thing...go with a big TV with S-VIDEO...if your are in collage then you wouldn't want a small pc monitor....hehe

and ati tv setup is very cool...dual display and kindy fuzzy just like the arcades....get a SHARP OR SONY OR TOSHIBA>>>NOT ORION OR other cheap crap....

and MAKE SURE YOU GO WITH PERFECT 360 joysticks..


hope my advices help...good luck

[neuromancer]

Performance:

Do you have a clean install of windows? If you are using MAME on your "everyday" windows, there will be performance penalties due to things like anti-virus and firewall software, not to mention MS office.

Interface:
2 joysticks with 6 buttons each can work flawlessly with a keyboard encoder, if you take your time and do it right. Emuadvise on mameworld.net is the best resource for hacking a keyboard encoder. I'm not even a starving college student, but for a 2+12 arrangement I can justify 3 hours worth of tinkering to save $40, Especially since I keep finding IBM AT keyboards at the Thrift Store for $2. For 3 cabinets, that's 3 hours + $6 vs. $120.

Pushbuttons:
Only consider horizontal pushbuttons. Verticals get "sticky" and hard to press quickly.

Bob
South Carolina

[Bob Ceccarelli]

Hyiu:
Thanks for all the sidewinder pages. I printed them all out and plan to use them soon!

Me:
Thanks for your tips but I'm afraid I can't afford $40 + tax + shipping PER JOYSTICK. If I had that kinda money to blow I could just buy an a whole arcade room.... lol. Good info on the TVs though...

neuromancer
Thanks for the info on the pushbuttons. Horizontal for sure!

I've got an old GRAVIS XTERMINATOR lying around. That thing must have 18 or more buttons on it... so I think one of those plus one Sidewinder will easily cover the 2 joys, the 14 game buttons, the 4 coin/start buttons, and the 4 menu/option buttons... 30 points grand total. Sounds like it should work juuuuust fine.

[Bob Ceccarelli]

I was just thinking as I typed up that last paragraph from my last post...

Since I plan on using 2 different joysticks (non daisy-chained) would I be able to plug them in as two seperate USB devices? Can MAME recognize two seperate USB gamepads? If it can, then I think I'm pretty much set....

(sans all the other massive hardware I need to 'aquire'  )

[Mike]

Here is what I'd do. I'd get the fastest AMD chip that can go in your current motherboard. Which is probably like a 1.4ghz athlon. Then I'd get a newer motherboard that supports XP and has ddr ram and put that in your main computer. That way your set to put a faster processor in your main computer when your ready to. Then for the Video card I'd go with a Radeon VE if you only want one monitor going at a time if you want 2 I think you have to step up to the radeon VE.  As for the supers they work fine. You'll probably want the Competition buttons you can push them faster. And the Ipac works great I have the ps2 version and I can playing fighting games no problem. The Keyboard hack will not support fighting games worth a darn.

[Bob Ceccarelli]

Mike:

That's a friggin' great idea for the motherboard swap. I was thinking about it earlier but never really thought of it as a possibility.

Also, I will definately be using only one monitor. I'll be taking a look to narrow down which Radeon I need.

Thanks for the tips!

[Bob Ceccarelli]

I'm going to pick up a Sidewinder on Tuesday for $5 at my local "Surplus Computers."

Until then I decided to crack open my Gravis Xterminator. It seems a bit more complicated then I would have thought. The analog joypad looks impossible to hack... not sure what to do with the trigger switch bits either.

Anyone kno w of any good tuts for hacking the Xterminator?

[me]

hey man dont buy sidwinder..if you can here is the GOOD idea...hack up cheap $4 psx controller...then get $8 convertor..the USB onces...i am super picky and trust me they work perfect.....the reason i would say go for psx controller cause it leaves you choice on using the joystick on many system..all you gotta do is get cheap convertor....AKA dreamcast...dreamcast got lots lots lots goooooooooood games....cheap tooo....system only cost $50 and games are nearly FREE..for me anyways...

and make sure you get motherboard with AGP slot..price watch ripped me offf.i callded them up and make sure it was AGP set..then they send me board with NO AGP slot..then i had to send it back...just watch out....from those DUMB seller...thanks man

i think you can easyly go with psx setup..leaves  you choice for any future needs....and the easiest setup you can possibly get.....EEEEEEASY

[Billabong]

I'm going to pick up a Sidewinder on Tuesday for $5 at my local "Surplus Computers."

Like hiyu said, make sure they are the gameport NOT USB. And yes, you can connect more than one to your system at once. Don't even bother with that Exterminator. Unless you like taking things apart for the hack of it.

Don't install any software from the Sidewinder either. Win98 and up has the basics built in.

Here's another Sidewinder page:
http://www.geocities.com/loosingbill/xstickcy.html
(toward the middle of the page)

For your computer: Are you dedicating a system to the cab, or will it be your 'working' computer too?
If you get a new mobo, and want to save some bucks, AND you already have 256MB of RAM, then make sure your new mobo can accept the RAM you have (presumably PC133). I have a 1.2G Athlon w/512, and it runs everything MAMEey very nice. My bud has the same setup (but DDR instead of PC133), and runs KI smoothly.

Good luck!
Billabong

[Bob Ceccarelli]

Hey Billabong...

I did in fact take apart the Xterminator. Might toy with it just for fun. Now somewhere along the line of this whole topic I seem to have missed why I don't want the USB version of the Sidewinder... Wouldn't that one be just *that much better*?

Also, I am dedicating whatever computer I do end up getting SOLELY for the cab, so that's why it's important I spend as *littel* as possible while still getting the most I can out of it.... (without OVERDOING it of course...  )

Nice Sidewinder page, btw. Plan to use that as guidelines. Great pics.

*thinks about KI running smoothly*

[Billabong]

Thanks Bob!

You want the gameport version for one reason: The holes are already there for you to push the wire thru and solder. The USB version does NOT have the holes, as far as I know. With the USB version you would have to either scrape away some of the green covering on the PCB and solder to that, or drill a very small hole thru it, scrape around, and solder that. Get the gameport version, save a headache. I got mine on Ebay for $10 including shipping.

Get the 1.2Gig over the 1Gig Athlon, the 1.2 runs a tad cooler from what I've been told. But, for arguments sake, I just priced out an XP1900+, Asus mobo, Case, and 256MB DDR RAM on Newegg.com for $300.

Later,
Bill

[Howard_Casto]

I reccomend that you DONT go with a sidewinder hack.  Why?

1.  Gameports are a dying port, they'll be gone soon... USB has pretty much replaced it.

2.  As others have stated the sidewinder usb sucks for hacking.  

Get an ipac, spend 50 bucks, and all will be well.  


I also agree with the others, geforce sucks.  I got a radeon 7500 dual display with 64mb sdr ram for like 80 bucks shipping included.  It out performs the geforce3  and in some instances the 4 if properly configured.  

[Bob Ceccarelli]

"Gameports are a dying port, they'll be gone soon... USB has pretty much replaced it."

What does this have to do with anything, lol. I'll be putting a computer in the cab dedicated just for the MAME-CADE... meaning that eve if the "gameport dies" that won't effect it in the slightlest... it's not like I'll be continually updating and upgrading the CPU and be stuck without the gameport...  

Oh, I just ordered the buttons from Happs. They have a sale on the horizontals (LUCKY ME!!!) until July. The $1.75 buttons are $0.99 a piece. There was also a sale on the Ultimate joysticks... although no one wants those...  .

[me]

hey BOB here is another IMPORTANT TIP...

dont go with exact same USB pads..everytime windows starts they will change the ID auto..that said if both are 100% same pads then it would  change the game pad id everytime windows starts....i was having this problem then i replaced them with PSX...watch out..that is very very anoying...its like this....1 player will become player 2 and the other way around...well good luck

[u_rebelscum]

dont go with exact same USB pads..everytime windows starts they will change the ID auto..that said if both are 100% same pads then it would  change the game pad id everytime windows starts....i was having this problem then i replaced them with PSX...watch out..that is very very anoying...its like this....1 player will become player 2 and the other way around...well good luck

I don't have this problem, but it is something you have to watch out for.  Windows shouldn't switch the IDs if you don't unplug them, but it looks like there's a timing issue at bootup: If the USB devices are the same, whichever one answers first gets the lower ID.  (This is based on the fact that while the computer is on, if you unplug two exactly the same USB devices, the first one you plug in always gets the lower ID.)

Again, my USB stuff (2 equal pads & 2 equal mice + other different devices) don't get mixed up on bootup/reboot if I don't unplug them.  They are each on different USB ports though, so maybe windows is checking each port one at a time on my computer so I do not get the timing issue?  (While the computer's on, though, the devices follow the "first plugged in get lowest ID of equal devices" rule noted above.)   I'm using winMe and have two logitech first mice and two generic game pads + another gamepad + a trackball.

Anyway, the problem of two exactly the same USB gamepads may or may not happen on your computer, but be aware that it might.

[Bob Ceccarelli]

First off, I shouldn't have the problem with having the exact same pads, being that I've already cracked open my Xterminator and plan to pick up a Sidewinder tomorrow.

Speaking of which, the Xterminator buttons on the circuit board have 2 half circles for each switch like this:
_   _
|_    |
|_  _|

So I'm assumin one bit is the ground and the other is the switch.... right? If so, then could I daisy chain all the of grounds together? Sounds almost *too* simple...

Also, did tons of play testing today. I found out that my current PC setup (the 800 T-Bird + 256 RAM + GeForce 2 MX) plays KI flawlessly and the Mortal Kombats/NBA Jams at *nearly* full speed.... I may not need as fast of a CPU as originally planed... unless of course they decide to dump Gauntlet: Dark Legacy *drools*.

Thanks again to all for the help!
-Bob

[lightspeed]

My advice:

ATI SDR 32 meg w/ TV out (if needed) < -- should be around $60 at your local Best Buy, much cheaper online.  Great card for MAME, and very cheap

Biostar KT266A mobo with 1700+ Athlon XP + 256 DDR Ram<--- $225 shipped from TCWO.com (DDR will make a difference)

Happ's Supers - best all around sticks - this is what most of the major gamestick vendors use (many ppl like Competitions better, IMHO both will work fine for you)    

I have heard good things the sticks on ultimarc.com, too.  The Perfect 360s are nice, but as you pionted out, expensive.  They also need an extra +5v wire for each stick, which can be a pain.

I-Pac for interface - unbeatable ease of use and compatibility.  However, if you want to make life really easy for yourself, pick up a 2 player JAMMA+ harness ($35) and a J-Pac.   This will save you a lot of time wiring.  A Jamma+ harness with the additional "kick" wiring will give you 2 players, 6 buttons per player.    Check out Bob Roberts page for details:  http://personal.msy.bellsouth.net/msy/b/o/bob147/

Good luck!

[Lilwolf]

Consider what your CRT will be (arcadeCRT/SVid TV/B-grade VGA/SVGA).... (quality wise, go from left to right.... easy of use, go right to left).

This should pick your video card.

if your going ArcadeCRT (and converting an existing cabinet)... And it's jamma (or not really)... the answers are all done for you (pretty much)

JPac (for encoder and video)... Trident VGA card or a G400.

If you are going svid TV...Go ATI and you wont go wrong... If you go geforce, you could get a good tv-out chip, but you wont know because there are so many manufacturers that each use different TV-out chips.

If your going b-grade or s vga... then go geforce.  Best card out for the price in my mind.  Go find a TNT or TNT2 card and you will be fine... Mame doesn't use the 3d stuff at all.  It does (however) use the accelerated stuff for hardware stretching.  But the TnT+ cards do a find job at that.

As for joysticks.  Go supers or competitions.  Supers are rounded inside where the competitions have a square (so you can feel the diagonals).  I like competitions for fighting games myself... but to each their own.

Encoders... don't hack a keyboard!  joysticks are better (no ghosting or matrix problems)... But everyone I've known to do that have bought an encoder after the fact.  So go straight there if you can.  Ipacs are great.... so are MKs (but not a great for 4player cabs now that the ipacs have a 58 key version). Hagstroms are good also, but more expensive.

[Bob Ceccarelli]

Hey guys....

Got a few Sidewinders the other day. I took them apart and dying to tinker with 'em but my Happs buttons *still * havn't arrived. Oh well.

Also, I've pretty much decided on the following specs:

AMD Athlon 1.4 Combo Mobo   ~$132
DDR 2100 RAM 256 MB             ~$35
ATI Radeon 7000 (w/ TV out)   ~$35

Built in sound card! Wahoo!

Anywho, sounds good for now... Can't wait to start building.

(3/4" woods works well I'd assume... right?)

[BASSOFeeSH]

I absolutely HATED the Supers until I flipped the activator(actuator?) over.  It was originally too sensitive & I was constantly hitting the corners by mistake.  Flipping it to the smaller side made them 10x better IMHO.

I also have 1 of the ball-top j-sticks from Ultimarc.  In 8-way mode you can feel the corners(which sounds like the competitions).  I'm seriously considering replacing both of the supers with Competitions because I find it that much easier to pull off most moves(NOT full circle moves!!) with the corners.  

And since I plan on building a 4-player cab when I find a house I can use the Supers for players 3 & 4.

[Evil]

>> The lag I'm reffering to in the Mortal Kombat games is this: THe game starts fine, the menus are great, the character selection is wonderful, and the beginning of the fight is also fine.... but once the actions starts (ie the players jump into each other and start fighting) it starts to lag pretty bad and gets VERY jumpy, making it pretty unplayable....  <<

I think I know what your problem is. I had the *exact* same behavior with Asteroids (and no other game) on my system.

There is a configuration variable called 'sleep' that is by default enabled.  I believe that when it's trying to save you CPU, its causing autoframeskip to set your framerate really low.  Turn off sleep (and/or autoframeskip) and see if it helps.

-J
http://www.eternaldusk.com

[neuromancer]

"Gameports are a dying port, they'll be gone soon... USB has pretty much replaced it."

What does this have to do with anything, lol. I'll be putting a computer in the cab dedicated just for the MAME-CADE... meaning that eve if the "gameport dies" that won't effect it in the slightlest... it's not like I'll be continually updating and upgrading the CPU and be stuck without the gameport...  

Unless *your* gameport dies, like if your soundcard gives up the ghost like mine did last weekend.

Bob

[Jason_]

I've been doing a bit of research myself for a while now - and when I called video connections the woman said the $0.50 buttons are leaf style buttons WITHOUT the leaft switch - which is the expensive part these days.

Apparently what happened