So I have a Powerbook...

[ChadTower]

... that I picked up at a yard sale last year.  I've never gotten it to boot properly, probably an OS issue, and I've never gone any farther than that into it since I don't care to find an OS8 install for it.  It has recently occurred to me that it would make a nice engine for a portable MAME cab, though...

So, considering I need to start with a fresh OS, what should I use?  I was looking at YellowDog Linux, but that's like $55.  I don't know that getting a good OS8 install would be much cheaper.  What would you folks recommend (or, does anyone have an OS they can throw at me ?

[SirPoonga]

Here's a good starting pont
http://penguinppc.org/

The pay version of most linux distros is the commercial version.  There usually is a free version without the commercial software.
http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/resources/ftp_mirrors.shtml
http://www.linuxiso.org/distro.php?distro=12

[ChadTower]

Oh cool, very helpful.  That is a lot of what I was looking for...

EDIT:  wow, yellowdog 3.0.1 is three iso images, each greater than 550meg... yowch.  Still, it looks like that may be my best bet.  Any opinions?

[NoOne=NBA=]

What are the specs on the Powerbook?

[ChadTower]

Well, it's system7-8 era, so that should give you an idea.  I don't have exact specs with me, I'll have to get them when I get home.  At least what specs I can get without a proper boot of the machine.

EDIT:  Bah.  I just looked at the yellowdog list of supported powerbooks... I'm pretty sure mine is the 5300, which is not supported.  I can confirm that tonight.  

Any other ideas?  I'd be fine with a basic boot into a mame frontend... don't really care how.

[hulkster]

So I have a Powerbook

there's your problem  

[ChadTower]

there's your problem  

For $10, find a better one.  

My memory seems to be jogging that it's the 5300.  Here are some potential specs I grabbed from an ebay auction:

CPU: PowerPC 603e
CPU Speed: 100 MHz
FPU: integrated
Bus Speed: 33.3 MHz
Data Path: 64 bit
ROM: 4 MB
RAM Type: unique
Minimum RAM Speed: 70 ns
Onboard RAM: 8/16 MB
RAM Slots: 1
Maximum RAM: 64 MB
Level 1 Cache: 16 kB data, 16 kB instruction
Screen: dual scan 10.4"
VRAM: 512 kB
Maximum Resolution: 8 bit 640x480
Slots: 2 Type II or 1 Type III PC Card 
Floppy Drive: 1.4 MB SuperDrive
Hard Disk: 500/750 MB
ADB: 1
Serial: 1
SCSI: HDI-30
Audio Out: stereo 16 bit mini
Audio In: stereo 16 bit mini
Speaker(s): mono
Microphone: mono
Gestalt ID: 128
Power: 45 Watts
Weight: 6.2 lbs.
Dimensions: 2.2" H x 11.5" W x 8.5" D
Minimum OS: 7.5.2
Maximum OS: 9.1
Introduced: August 1995
Terminated: Late 1996

[hulkster]

there's your problem  

For $10, find a better one.  

not hard.  my right toe with ingrown toenail = better than powerbook.

chill, just kidding.

[NoOne=NBA=]

What I really need to know is the model number.

[ChadTower]

What I really need to know is the model number.

I'll get it tonight, but I'm betting 5300.

[NoOne=NBA=]

I'm guessing it's probably a 5300cs.
If so, it shipped originally with system 7.5 on it.
You would probably do best with System 7.6.1 for the OS on it.
That one was really stable, and had all the pre-OS8 upgrades.
I really wouldn't recommend going to OS8 unless you have a RAM upgrade.
The extra features added alot of overhead, and will really tax your system.

I've got a 5300 running OS8 and MacMAME .33, that will run most of the older stuff really nicely.
It's got 40Meg of RAM on it though.
I'm not sure how high a version you can run on MacMAME because it got bloated in the mid-30's somewhere, as well.

[ChadTower]

I'm guessing it's probably a 5300cs.
If so, it shipped originally with system 7.5 on it.
You would probably do best with System 7.6.1 for the OS on it.
That one was really stable, and had all the pre-OS8 upgrades.
I really wouldn't recommend going to OS8 unless you have a RAM upgrade.
The extra features added alot of overhead, and will really tax your system.

I've got a 5300 running OS8 and MacMAME .33, that will run most of the older stuff really nicely.
It's got 40Meg of RAM on it though.
I'm not sure how high a version you can run on MacMAME because it got bloated in the mid-30's somewhere, as well.

Very useful!  Thanks for the info.  You wouldn't be willing to take a quick ghost of that machine, would you?    Or perhaps an extra copy of the OS installer you may have around I could buy off of you.  I'm thinking that's best for me, to just grab 7.5 and the upgrades.

[NoOne=NBA=]

I'd like to help you out, but the way those shipped is a little weird.
They shipped with the OS on them, and the first thing you are supposed to do is make a series of backup floppies for them.
I did that originally; but I don't have all the floppies anymore because I went to OS 8 on it, and didn't need them anymore.

Here is a good place to download the disk images you need though.

The MacMAME Forums will be a big help in getting it all together and running for you.

Feel free to PM me if you have specific questions, or problems, and I'll give a shot at helping where I can.

I would highly recommend picking up at least one of these (two would be better), if you want to make it easily playable.

[Darkstalker]

You can always go the Gentoo Linux route if you don't want to shell out for Yellow Dog.  Not everything compiles right with a PPC, but I doubt you'll run into too much trouble.

[ChadTower]

Here is a good place to download the disk images you need though.

The MacMAME Forums will be a big help in getting it all together and running for you.

AWESOME links.  Thanks muchly, I'll give that a shot when I have the chance.  My plan is to build a small portable cab with the powerbook inside it.  I'll be using arcade controls and will be looking to use some lightweight wood so that I can bring it from place to place easily...

[MinerAl]

Visit LowEndMac for all kinds of info about your... um... low end mac.

Take a look at this category on ebay for cheap old Operating Systems.

You may find that a 100MHz PPC603 will be a bit choppy on everything except "classic" roms.  I'd go see if I could find MacMAME .36 or so.

I used to have a 225MHz PPC603 (PowerMac 6500) running my cabinet.  It ran just fine on oldies, but balked at more modern roms.  

I'd go with MacOS 9.0.4 or 9.1 so you can run ancient iTunes and play MacMAME too.  The "Launcher" can be used as a low-end front-end for MacMAME if you associate .zip files to the MacMAME app, and then put aliases (shortcuts) to the roms themselves into the LauncherItems folder.

As mentioned before... go to the MacMAME forum.  They'll get you hooked up.  Oh and buy more RAM.

[NoOne=NBA=]

I'd go with MacOS 9.0.4 or 9.1 so you can run ancient iTunes and play MacMAME too.

Don't do this!!

You don't have enough RAM to run OS9 by itself, much less putting anything over the top of it.

I put OS 8 on a co-workers 5300 with 24 Meg of RAM, and it will barely run the OS without using virtual memory.
NOTE: You want to turn virtual memory OFF in the memory control panel,  to FORCE it to use the RAM, instead of the hard drive.
You also want to turn off all unnecessary extensions, to free up as much processing time as possible.

If you are unfamiliar with Macs, imagine running WinXP on a Pentium 100 with 8 Meg of RAM--vs running Win 3.1.
That's about the difference is OS size we are talking about here.

I wouldn't go any newer than OS7.6, or you are going to have RAM problems.

I'd also stay back at MacMAME 33.
It has the least strenuous requirements of any of the early versions.
As MinerAl mentioned, the games supported by 36 probably won't run anyway, and the newer a version you go, the bigger the code gets.

MacMAME 33 Final REQUIRES 6,082 K to launch. (3,000 if you enable virtual memory, and take the performance hit).
MacMAME 36 REQUIRES 16,540. (10,000 with virtual memory).

[Stingray]

I agree with NBA, the newest OS you want to use on this system is probably going to be 7.6.1.

-S

[ChadTower]

Seeing as how I don't need the OS at all, and just want it to launch into a front end for MacMAME, is there a minimal shell (like DOS) that I could just boot to that would autoload MacMAME?

[NoOne=NBA=]

I think your only choice there would be a minimal Linux install, but I'm not sure.
Someone on the MacMAME forum would know though.

[SirPoonga]

There isn't a mame on CD that is PPC compatible?  That would be pretty cool, like a redhat (fedora), yellow dog, or gentoo linux on CD that is PPC compatible.

[ChadTower]

Well, we'll find out.  I've headed over to the MacMAME forum to consult with them.  I'll keep folks posted as details become set.

[ChadTower]

Okay, the MacMAME forum isn't all that active.  No help there.

Basically, in lieu of a stable linux kernel to drop on this machine, it looks like NoOne's suggestion is the way to go.  I am currently downloading the (floppy sized, 19 parts) 7.5.3 installer.  I'm not a Mac guy, so I'll have some questions that if someone could answer them as they come up it would be seriously appreciated.

First question:  This installer is made up of 19 .bin files.  These are self mounting Mac disk images, IIRC.  These would logically require a working Mac to even use them, wouldn't they?  I'm missing the part of how to bootstrap the Powerbook in order to start the install.  It does have a working floppy.  Would I need a boot disk similar to a DOS boot floppy?

[NoOne=NBA=]

Yes.

I remember seeing a bootable floppy, that I think was OS 7.5, but it's been so long ago, I can't remember for sure.

You might take another look around on the LowEndMac site, for that specifically.

[Tiger-Heli]

P-P-P-Powerbook



Sorry for this brief and useless intteruption, we now return this to your regularly scheduled thread.  .  .

[ChadTower]

P-P-P-Powerbook

http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=19711;start=msg158392#msg158392

Sorry for this brief and useless intteruption, we now return this to your regularly scheduled thread.  .  .

Heh, saw that at the time... my powerbook is much older than that, though, and probably not worth  much money.

[ChadTower]

Here's my current status.  I found the Network Access image for 7.5, which presumably would allow me to boot the system and blast the HD, etc.  I found some instructions for how to get this onto a floppy from a PC, but it's not really working.  I downloaded the .sea.bin.  I used stuffit to expand to a .sea, then used stuffit again to expand and came out with a Network Access folder with a .image and a readme in there.

Now I'm using NTRawrite to try and drop that onto a floppy in its raw mac format.  The problem?

"NTRawrite: Image size mismatch -- floppy can hold 1474560 bytes, but image file
is 1474644 bytes long."

I've tried everything I can think of, started the process from scratch 8 times... always the same results.  I'm stuck.

[Tiger-Heli]

Here's my current status.  I found the Network Access image for 7.5, which presumably would allow me to boot the system and blast the HD, etc.  I found some instructions for how to get this onto a floppy from a PC, but it's not really working.  I downloaded the .sea.bin.  I used stuffit to expand to a .sea, then used stuffit again to expand and came out with a Network Access folder with a .image and a readme in there.

Now I'm using NTRawrite to try and drop that onto a floppy in its raw mac format.  The problem?

"NTRawrite: Image size mismatch -- floppy can hold 1474560 bytes, but image file
is 1474644 bytes long."

I've tried everything I can think of, started the process from scratch 8 times... always the same results.  I'm stuck.

Mac's use a different floppy format from PC's (at least they used to) could be your problem, although that's about all I know about Mac's except that USB works on both, sometimes.

[ChadTower]

Okay, next approach:  

Are the 7.6 OS install CDs bootable?  If so, can the 5300 boot from SCSI CD?  We have a buttload of external SCSI CDs around here in my office.

[NoOne=NBA=]

Yes, but you need a SCSI adapter for the port on the Powerbook.

[ChadTower]

Yes, but you need a SCSI adapter for the port on the Powerbook.

I think I have one.   It came in a laptop bag with a LOT of accessories like that.  In fact  I may have a couple of them.  I know it came with like 4 nics for some reason.

From most of the reading I've done, the symptoms I've seen sound just like the descriptions of dead PRAM batteries.  I've just ordered a new one from powerbookguy.com... let's see if maybe it's just a dead PRAM battery.

[NoOne=NBA=]

Sure, be a wimp, and start with the EASY stuff.  

I had a car radio completely uninstalled, and bench tested, one time before I thought to look under the dash.
Once I did, I realized that someone had stuck their foot there, and broke the in-line fuse block apart.

[ChadTower]

Sure, be a wimp, and start with the EASY stuff.  

I had a car radio completely uninstalled, and bench tested, one time before I thought to look under the dash.
Once I did, I realized that someone had stuck their foot there, and broke the in-line fuse block apart.

I did something like that last year.  My radio totally died, and I replaced the freakin' thing before I checked the fuses.  The radio fuse by the engine block (I hadn't even known about that one) was gone.  Of course, in the process I upgraded from my old Alpine cassette to a Blaupunkt CD/MP3/WMA unit, so I can't really complain.  

[ChadTower]

DAMMIT! I replaced the PRAM battery but now the thing won't even try to boot. Dead, dead, dead. It did try before, a few months ago, last time I played with the thing. Unfortunately I wasn't smart enough to try and boot it before replacing the battery so I don't know whether or not something died in the meantime. What would die while it's in a bag with no power, though? I took it apart several times, checked all of the connections... I'm hoping I got it back together properly seeing as how I'm not familiar with the architecture of a powerbook. If there is something wrong, it's likely the keyboard cables, I suspect. I'm not sure where to go from here.

The little green light at the top of the screen frame does light up dimly with the new PRAM battery and not at all with the old PRAM battery. I assume this means the new PRAM battery is good. When a strong battery is instered that green light is strong. I don't get any response, ever, though, from pressing the power button other than a small dimming of that green light.

Any ideas, or is this to the point where I should just trash it?

[dasme]

*flips through some of his old apple repair notes*

After replacing the Pram battery you will have to do a Power Manager reset as well or the system will not boot.

To do this just:

1. Remove the Battery
2. Disconnect teh AC adapter
3. Press and hold the reset button for 1 minute to make sure all power has left the board. (the reset button is in tehback door panet, I believe youneed a pen or other such small object to trip the switch
4. Plug in the AC Adapter to the wall
5. Connect the ac adapter to the Powerbook.
6. Leave it plugged in and don't try to start it for a good 5 minutes.

If the system boots ok you will be laughing. If you still see no signs of life you may have a damaged laptop.

Hope this helps.. sorry to the admins that this is off topic

[ChadTower]

After replacing the Pram battery you will have to do a Power Manager reset as well or the system will not boot.

!!!!  Well it's a damn good thing that I didn't take the machine and throw it out the window.  I very, very nearly did that.  I was having a bad day yesterday.  I'll give this a shot tonight.  Thanks so much!

[dasme]

No worries, I used to be a Apple Certified technician. I knew the documents that I kept would do me some good one day

Let me know if you still are having issues with it after trying this.

[ChadTower]

nope... don't even get that green light anymore.

[dasme]

PM sent.. i'll take this private as to not bore the other board members

[NoOne=NBA=]

At least post back the solution to it.