Author Topic: Opinions needed...."hybrid" cp (Read 3344 times)

Aceldamor · « **on:** July 12, 2004, 04:26:46 pm »

Been thinking about making a "hybrid" cp. Meaning a rotating cp with the 3rd side being modular for all the crazy other controlls needed.

Seems a little much, but I figured why bother changing out the fighter panel, and my other panel for other types of most played games and just deal with 1 panel that has the modular feature so I can swap out crazy sticks, button configs, steering wheels, 720 stick, ect.

I'm about 50/50 for and against it....just wanted to get some opinions on the idea to help me push one way or the other.

Thanks

REBIRTH · « **Reply #1 on:** July 12, 2004, 04:45:49 pm »

Count me in on a "Go for it!" vote. You could have 2 "normal" panels with the normal controls (2 player setup, trackball, spinner, 4 way stick, etc) and then the 3rd modular for all the "non-normal" controls like you say (yoke, steering wheel, etc.). I have to admit that if I thought of doing it that way, making one of my three panels modular, I probably would have. It is a bit much, as you say, but to me it is worth it in the end when you can quickly get just about any CP setup you want by spinning the thing and/or swapping a control or two.

Aceldamor · « **Reply #2 on:** July 12, 2004, 04:48:19 pm »

Rebirth...

Glad you chimed in on this one...I was looking at your plans, and it actually wouldn't be hard to change one of your panels to a modular panel using telenguard's (sp) modular design...

NoOne=NBA= · « **Reply #3 on:** July 12, 2004, 04:58:12 pm »

Just a thought here, but why leave all those nice controls on the other panels, and then have to buy duplicates of them for the modular panel?

Unique CP's you may want to duplicate on your modular system:

Tron - needs the spinner
Blasteroids - two spinners
Wacko - needs the trackball
Smash TV - needs the 8-ways from the fighter panel
Marble Madness - needs the trackball, unless you want to buy TWO more

I would, and DID, just go modular, to save the hassle of making a rotating panel, not being happy with it, and STILL having controls laying around for a modular system.

The draw of the rotating panels is that it stores the controls for you.
The draw of modular is that it lets you reuse the controls you buy on more than one CP.

pgifford · « **Reply #4 on:** July 12, 2004, 05:04:56 pm »

Rebirth,

Your site seems to have a glitch. This page http://rebirth.dgthompson.com/cpconstruct.html has content from the previous page and also links to itself. I'm dying to know more about how you built your panel - you have to fix this

Thanks,

Paul

snekse · « **Reply #5 on:** July 12, 2004, 05:07:19 pm »

I like the idea. It all really boils down to which games you like to play. I personally play a lot of fighters and Golden Tee, but I'm also a huge fan of Star Wars, 720 and a couple of others that have odd controls. I'd say if 80% of the games you play can be done on 2 CPs, there's no need to make those modular.

I guess my question is, if you are making a rotating CP, why not just make them all modular? Not that you *have* to change them out, but you have the option if you want it. What are you gaining by making only one of them modular?

Keep in mind I'm just playing devils adovocate here.

Doc- · « **Reply #6 on:** July 12, 2004, 10:23:25 pm »

It is an intriguing idea. I think it does have some advantages over either a "rotating only" or "modular only" design.

Some plusses:
+ It might be easier to rotate for a few "truly" unique setups
+ You could combine the concepts by having a "few" swappable panels on one or more of the rotating panels to provide flexibility
+ You could preserve artwork on at least two of the "non-modular" panels

Some minuses:
- Complexity - rotating is pretty complex, and you are adding some additional complexity with the modular parts. This will take quite a bit of time/money to complete. It also might not be quite as robust as a system with fewer parts.
- Cost - clearly you are buying more parts than you would with a straight modular panel -- a single modular panel might give you the same game flexibility at much less cost

Overall, I would say that the ability to preserve artwork is the biggest plus of making it rotating, since you can achieve all of the game flexibility with a straight modular panel.

The biggest minus (from my perspective) is the time/complexity. From the descriptions I have read the rotating panels are not simple to produce, and I know that a modular panel does take quite a bit more time than a static panel.

If you have enough time and money on your hands, however, why not build it and let us know how it turns out? After all that's the kind of experimentation that leads to new innvoations.

I know when I went to convert my modular panel system based on a wacky design I had in my head, I was scared to death that I would sink a ton of time building it only to find that id did not work properly.

However, the opposite was true when I finished - I have no idea how I survived without the modular panel and I'm still amazed at the flexibility. I picked up a 360 degree driving wheel and shifter off ebay the other day and I'm now crafting some panels to mount it on the modular cabinet. Its great to add pieces as I find them.

Give it a shot! Go rotating AND modular?

Doc-

Patent Doc · « **Reply #7 on:** July 13, 2004, 12:07:41 am »

Doc's right about the added complexity of the modular panel on a rotating set-up. I'm in the process of doing this as well. Fortunately, 1UP has already paved the way for this. Check out his website www.1uparcade.com and look at how he is mounting the Star Wars yoke and T2 guns. This method allows for a consistent cp overlay that you merely cover up at times.

That being said check out Do'cs cp. I think its Doc's machine that has the wooden modular cp attached via dowels with T10 cables for connections (Doc...that's you right? I know this is an oversimplification). Anyway, I'm trying to combine the best of all worlds in mine and it sound like you are too. You don't have to make the entire CP modular. For example, I'm thinking about making three removable sections with nonremovable space in between. So in this world lets say you have a flight yoke and want the throttle on the left fine you remove two panels. If you want to mount a steering wheel with a shifter then the right two (unless of course you're in the UK then still the left two. The unused panel could switch between the left and right side. The advantage of this method is that you can have consistent artwork, but then you have to design your art work to be modular as well. Not too difficult just tedious.

Of course you could be like me and plan this thing forever. My wife just laughs at me because she doesn't think I'll ever start.

If you go modular on CP 3 do look at Doc's method of connection. Clearly the most elegant.

Kremmit · « **Reply #8 on:** July 13, 2004, 01:17:44 am »

If you're willing to buy the duplicate controllers for a dedicated fighter panel and a few others, then why not, but... Why rotate? A rotating panel is a considerable extra effort- instead, why not just do a couple dedicated, full-width "modules" for you fighter & other common layouts. These would snap in in place of the smaller modules you use for the less common setups, giving you that clean, 1 piece control panel look for your most common setups, without the extra design/carpentry hassles you get when you rotate.

Or not. It's your baby!

Tahnok · « **Reply #9 on:** July 13, 2004, 01:59:52 am »

That sounds awesome! I say, as said above, if you are willing to buy the duplicate parts then go for it! Keep us posted on how it goes.

menace · « **Reply #10 on:** July 13, 2004, 06:41:09 am »

I say go for it--That's how I did mine and I'm very happy with the results. Panel 1 has 8-way rotaries with 6 button layout and 1 4-way, panel 2 has the tron stick, spinner, trackball and panel 3 is the modular one that accomodates 2 360 wheels with pedals and the star wars yoke (and hopefully soon the spy hunter control as well)

Its great to be able to play games on native feeling (if not truly native) controls.

snekse · « **Reply #11 on:** July 13, 2004, 10:31:02 am »

Quote from: menace on July 13, 2004, 06:41:09 am

I say go for it--That's how I did mine and I'm very happy with the results.

Menace,

Your CP sounds pretty sweet. Any pics?

REBIRTH · « **Reply #12 on:** July 14, 2004, 07:18:22 am »

Quote from: pgifford on July 12, 2004, 05:04:56 pm

Rebirth,

Your site seems to have a glitch. This page http://rebirth.dgthompson.com/cpconstruct.html has content from the previous page and also links to itself. I'm dying to know more about how you built your panel - you have to fix this

Thanks,

Paul

I know, I am in the process of building the website now and that page you are looking at is where I last left off... from the main page you can still see my old website which has a few more pictures that may help. I am also in the middle of making detailed plans that will be put on the website, that people will be able to download for free if they want. I should just concentrate on one thing or the other and get one done.

As for all the people that have posted that roating is much more complex - I agree that it is more complex than a regular panel, and more costly since you are doubling up on some controls, but it isn't that complex really. When I built mine I hadn't found 1Up's site yet (or his site wasn't built yet), so I was doing it on my own without anyone else to copy (I now know there were a couple of other people that had already done it too, which I also hadn't found). I also am rotating my monitor, and had plenty of people to copy from and ask for tips. Rotating the monitor was much more complex than the CP panels. It ended up being as "easy" as cutting two triangles for the axis, attaching 3 CP's to the triangles, a lazy susan on either side and I was done. After planning it out it may have taken me at most 8 hours to build it (with the controls installed) - not bad at all I think.

menace · « **Reply #13 on:** July 14, 2004, 07:26:58 am »

control panel #3 is still under construction

(damn you working control panel #1 luring me into game playing instead of building...) But I'll post pics when she's all together.

telengard · « **Reply #14 on:** July 14, 2004, 02:26:23 pm »

Quote from: Aceldamor on July 12, 2004, 04:26:46 pm

Been thinking about making a "hybrid" cp. Meaning a rotating cp with the 3rd side being modular for all the crazy other controlls needed.

Seems a little much, but I figured why bother changing out the fighter panel, and my other panel for other types of most played games and just deal with 1 panel that has the modular feature so I can swap out crazy sticks, button configs, steering wheels, 720 stick, ect.

I'm about 50/50 for and against it....just wanted to get some opinions on the idea to help me push one way or the other.

Thanks

Hey Aceldamor,

I guess if you have 2 types of games you play *a lot* then that setup would be good. The games you tend to not play as much could be setup on the modular part. 1 fixed panel w/ single centered joy, 2nd fixed 2 joys maybe? I have no particular control type game I play (i.e. fighters) so the rotating + modular wouldn't be something I'd need. It takes so little time to swap stuff around in mine I don't think it matters.

NoOne=NBA= · « **Reply #15 on:** July 14, 2004, 03:01:13 pm »

I'd second that.
I play so many different things, that versatility is king on my CP.

I don't like playing stuff when it feels wrong (i.e. 4-way, one button games, played off-centered to P-1 with buttons and sticks everywhere).

goofy · « **Reply #16 on:** July 29, 2004, 12:56:42 am »

I've searched through the boards but didn't find anything on this. So, in a rotating control panel, how do you keep the wires from continuously twisting and eventually causing a big mess/problem?

Thanks

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 29, 2004, 01:57:01 am »

You make a 'stopper' peg so that it will only go like 355 degrees arround.

I had started a 6 way rotating control panel long long ago... but job loss and other things kept from completion.

I did have the idea to make one panel that had a set of port holes in which you could lock additional panels above the keyboard panel...

My panels were linked to each other with hinges originally...
and then were supposed to clamp into place with a dual single set of clamps at each end. However... I decided against that as it was too hard to put the thing together - as well as not to easy to ake repairs.

Instead... I decided to make all the panels removable by using panel clamps on each panel. Then all the panels would be connected via plugable connectors - and so all easily removable. You access the clamps via a small locking trapdoor hatch under the keyboard panel.

I think this is still a good way to construct this type of panel set. Easy to repair - as well as being able to swap any panel out if you wanted.

For those with only 3 panel rotators... you could attach hinges to the small divider sections and add the key-locks on them - so as to be able to use them as an access panel to the panel clamps.

Another thing I had issues with was with controlling emulator functions. I think a good idea for the 3 wayers is to have a mini control panel right above the rotational section, right --BINGO! Either that, or I was attempting to say "before" but it was too many letters to type-- the monitor.

I myself am thinking of starting over and building a horizontal rotator. I originally was against it due to space concerns... however, it prolly wont be too much bigger than the current method. It will also allow more controls, as well as the ability to relax and sit down while playing (better for driving games too).

A few more parts are still needed... and designs are still being thought about... so it will be a while still before anything solid appears.

foomench · « **Reply #18 on:** July 29, 2004, 12:35:17 pm »

Quote from: goofy on July 29, 2004, 12:56:42 am

I've searched through the boards but didn't find anything on this. So, in a rotating control panel, how do you keep the wires from continuously twisting and eventually causing a big mess/problem?

I think Frosty's rotator put the encoder inside the rotating panel so only a single USB cable runs from the panel to the CPU. With a stop somewhere you never get more than a complete rotation, which the cable can handle.

Now this got me thinking - a USB cable is only four wires. One could probably find a rotating connector (like they make for phones, usually based on metal brushes) that handles four connections, so you could possibly make something with this and no stop. I wonder about the reliability of such a thing and potential interference with the USB data signal, but I am curious.

-foomench

Nannuu · « **Reply #19 on:** July 29, 2004, 01:48:40 pm »

Quote from: goofy on July 29, 2004, 12:56:42 am

I've searched through the boards but didn't find anything on this. So, in a rotating control panel, how do you keep the wires from continuously twisting and eventually causing a big mess/problem?

Thanks

I know there are more than this but I can't remember who made them?

1UP
http://www.1uparcade.com/index.html
Frostillicus
http://arcade.tomvanhorn.com/
Rebirth
http://rebirth.dgthompson.com/
Menace
http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=12683

Unfinished:
1HookedSpaceCadet
http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=12686
Me (Nannuu)
http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=13366

goofy · « **Reply #20 on:** September 07, 2004, 06:59:35 pm »

Nannu (or others),

what are you doing to stop your panel for each rotation and to lock it into place so that it feels solid while playing and has no wiggle?

goofy · « **Reply #21 on:** September 11, 2004, 11:38:17 pm »

Anybody have a good solution to stopping the panel at each 3 positions? Ideally, can it be done with nothing sticking out on either side? If not, oh well, I'd love to see how everyone is doing this.

Thanks.

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #22 on:** September 12, 2004, 04:37:04 am »

maybe something like this:

grap 2 thick steel pieces, drill holes into them that will perfectly fit a steel rod. Place the rod into a tube with a spring behind it. The rod could have a hole drilled into the rear of it - with a cable that runs thru it, and out the rear of the tube (right thru the center of the spring as well)

Take both left and right side panels (that hold all the control panels), and clamp them together. Cut notches into them with a router about 1/2" or so deep... in the places where the control panel should lock in.

Fasten the metal plates over the slot holes... very carefull to make sure they are lined up perfectly the same on both left and right sides... and in all directions.

youll need to mount the spring loaded device somehow... and then run the metal cable to a place on the cab. The metal cable will act as the release. You could make a foot pedal for it or something.

They may already have something prefabricted simular to this at the hardware stores... take a look arround.

I recomend the steel place instead of just holes in wood - because the wood holes may expand with use, and make slop. Actually, you may want to use a thick tube insert rather than the steel plate now that I think about it.

shadowdrak · « **Reply #23 on:** September 12, 2004, 02:05:15 pm »

Couldn't you use one of those small latches they use for chests? I mean the kind that is kind of like the mechanism on a door knob, but has a flush mount handle instead. you could put the part with the socket on each edge of the rotating part, then countersink the handle into the front of the panel. I know my description wasn't the best, I will try to find a link or something better to eplain it with.


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