Number of buttons help

[PiNPOiNT]

I just want to confirm this before i go and make a big mistake,

i have a optipac, and and Ipac4

with the plan to have 42 buttons total for (plus 16 for the joysticks) making a total of 58 buttons which im now guessing is to many buttons, because the Ipac 4 claims to only have 56 inputs (Two of the inputs are assigned as shift keys to access two separate codes sets covering the player 1,2 and the player 3,4 inputs.)  

Am i correct in saying that basically i can have only 54 usable inputs for unique inputs and 2 for shift buttons?

Therefore i have to change my design and remove 4 buttons from my layout? (assuming im not using shift buttons)

lol make any sense?

[sirwoogie]

What's your layout? What is going where? We can only give you a good idea if we know what you're hooking up.

[PiNPOiNT]

Here is the basic layout of the 4 player control panel,

its about 51" wide and 19 deep, a modification of luscid's design

The yellow and white buttons in the bottom left and right corners are pinball flipper buttons


so what do you think?  does this help shed light on my question above?

thanks again for your help

[Sylentwulf]

Yeah, give us a layout. Some general ways to make sure you're not calculating too many buttons:

a 4-way pac-man and 8-way fighter setup both for one player only uses 10 switches (4 for the joystick, 6 for the buttons. the four way and buttons are daisy chained, so they go in the same spot)

Player 3 and 4 do NOT need 7 buttons. Give them 4 at most.

Trackball buttons - use player 1 buttons, hook 2 mouse buttons to the optipac.

[NoOne=NBA=]

I would trim a couple buttons off P-3 and P-4, as mentioned above.

The pinball buttons could then be connected to the remaining P-3/P-4 buttons to save a few more connections.

[quarterstringer]

What are the 4 blue buttons above the trackball for? Also you must have some pretty long arms to play pinball.  

[NoOne=NBA=]

Also you must have some pretty long arms to play pinball.  

I hadn't even thought of that.
I was worried about button/connection usage.

[PiNPOiNT]

Ok, here's a modified layout as per your suggestions,  

the 2 blue buttons above the track ball are the left and right mouse button, but you say i can just use player 1/2 for those instead?

as for the length of the CP and the length of my arms, i actually have a box that comes out towartds the front of the cabinet, that is much smaller and more resonalbly spaced for pinball flippers

Now were down to 36 buttons and 16 joystick connections total, for a grand total of 52 buttons

we should be safe now right?

[sirwoogie]

What are the three buttons at the top corners for? I assume one is your pause/shift key and the other is coin, what's the other one for?

For mine, I didn't give the other players an option for a shift key, and you can also map the shift2 key onto shift1. Then, for all the controller keys (enter, tab, ~), just make them shift keys somewhere.

I also concur to use another existing set of keys for the mouse. If you have a tornado spinner, that gives you three mouse buttons instead of two the optipac gives you (not really useful, but to some it might). I always like to keep spare inputs around for certain things such as duplicating certain buttons (like coin for both button but also for mechs). I'd rather not double-wire an input, but it can be done of course if you have low enough guage wire.

[PiNPOiNT]

First off, i forgot to include the 4 coin "buttons" which will actually be triggered by the coin door when you insert a coin.
so that takes us back up to 56

The buttons at the top could probably be lessened also,

i want to have

EXIT GAME (somewhere where i wont accidently hit it)
Pause
Load State
Save State
Reset game (somewhere where i wont accidently hit it)

I'll post another pic once i move the buttons around, but if i get rid of 2 of the extra buttons up top

then im back to 55

i still havent worked in using a shift button into the whole scheme, but what buttons do you guys recommend making multi-use? and for which commands?

thanks

[sirwoogie]

I don't have my diagram of my CP at the moment, but I can tell you what I did. Realize this is all personal preference, and really depends on your tastes. The only true way to get this right is to build a mock of the CP complete with your parts. I did things on paper that I changed once I did my test CP. A sheet of MDF is pretty cheap, but you could  do it with cardboard as well.

I provided a "function" key that was designated the pause (p) key and shift1/shift2. I know I would be pausing alot when using my arcade, and having a quick key for this is good for me. Then, I provided player1/player2 start and coin buttons. I have 9 free inputs prior to wiring my coin door, but I could always double-wire them if necessary if I had run out.  I've made all shift keys be player 1 side only as I don't want other people to have access to those keys. Here is a sample of my layout:

• shift + player1 start = escape
• shift + coin1 = tab
• shift + p1sw1 = ~
• shift + p1sw2 = enter
• shift + p1sw3 = F2

and so on. This way, the only accidental key you have is pause on the function key.

[Tiger-Heli]

Just as an aside, the shift button has a basic function as well, so all 56 inputs are available.

[PiNPOiNT]

Alright, ill think about how i can re arrange and get rid of some more buttons if possible,  i think i will go with 1 main button for sure (PAUSE) cause i can see myself using that alot, and shift + pause, could probably be "EXIT Game"

ill save some more buttons by adding the save/load state button over the same one. just like it is native to mame


quick question: does Visual Pinball support more then just 2 flippers?  does it support upper flippers like some tables have? and if so, does it use a different in put? or do the upper flippers just trigger when you push the normal flipper buttons?

[Tiger-Heli]

>does Visual Pinball support more then just 2 flippers?

Yes!

>  does it support upper flippers like some tables have?

Yes!

> and if so, does it use a different in put?

Yes!

> or do the upper flippers just trigger when you push the normal flipper buttons?

No!

But what you might consider is that none of your "Arcade" buttons will be used by VP, so the flippers could share inputs with P3 and P3, unless you are worried about someone messing up your games by pressing the other buttons.

[sirwoogie]

Just as an aside, the shift button has a basic function as well, so all 56 inputs are available.

Yup, I was thinking of mentioning that, but thought my post made that clear enough.

Furthering the shift key choice.... make the shift key something you don't rely on being timly. The iPAC will pause on that key depress to see if you hit anything else. Don't for instance make the shift key p1sw1 or a key that is used a lot for a game. You'll get a slight delay in that stroke, and it also won't be key repeatable as quick as you would want.

For VP, I would recommend doing something for the plunger key (normally enter). Either remap it, have a frontend reprogram the IPAC, or make a completely seperate input. Having the plunger key being a shift key will be annoying IMO.

I also agree with Tiger on the daisy chain of inputs. Many people do that to save on inputs, much like your case here. I did this for my utility joysticks (top fire, 4-way) as they all used P1 input, but I didn't want to waste iPAC space on them. You just get creative with your wiring and connectors.