Author Topic: Time Pilot Joystick (Read 11154 times)

allroy1975 · « **on:** July 07, 2004, 01:12:03 am »

My Uncle has a Time Pilot cab and his joystick blows. He has mentioned it to me before and I suggested that he just get a new one. I was over there on the holiday weekend and played it and damn near hurt my arm it was so difficult to move. I'd like to help him out and get him a NICE stick, but It'd need to look like the original black ball top that Time Pilot had, and preferably be Leaf.

Any ideas where to find one?

Thanks in advance
Allroy

Sasquatch! · « **Reply #1 on:** July 07, 2004, 06:03:43 pm »

The only place I know of to buy leafswtich joysticks is mikesarcade.com, but they're the Chinese repros that a lot of people seem to hate, and they also seem to come in red only.

If you can live with a microswitch stick, maybe an Ultimarc stick would do ya?

MiKman · « **Reply #2 on:** July 07, 2004, 06:15:25 pm »

was the original time pilot an 8-way or 4-way stick? I have seen this seller selling alot of Wico leaf sticks on ebay 4-way and 8-way but they are red ball tops... in fact here he has 50 of them for sale now :-) (not my auction but I also watch for wico 4-ways on ebay)

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13718&item=6106912893

NoOne=NBA= · « **Reply #3 on:** July 07, 2004, 06:36:20 pm »

The originals have 8-way sticks in them that have no corners, so I would suspect they are probably Wicos.

The seller mentioned above is a GREAT guy to deal with.
I've bought alot of stuff from him, and EVERY transaction has been perfect.
He has alot of the 4-ways at the moment, and has been using some of them to build 8-ways when he can get good bodies for them.
He replaces everything on the 8-way except the body and the actuator.

You might want to check with Oscar, to see if the stick in that machine is supposed to be a Wico.
If so, check yours out.
If the body is still in good shape, you could buy one of the 4-ways from Nicade, and replace all the trouble parts in yours (grommet, leaf switches, etc...) with the stuff from the 4-way, keeping your original actuator, stick and base.

I can't think of anything that would make the stick hard to move, if it is a Wico, though.
The two biggest problems Wicos have are the rubber grommet ripping, which lets the stick move too easily in one direction, and the leaf switches bending.

Is the stick hard to move ANYWHERE, or is it just hard to get it to make contact with the switches?
If it's just hard to make contact with the switches, they may just need to be bent back in toward the center.

OSCAR · « **Reply #4 on:** July 07, 2004, 06:37:30 pm »

The OEM joystick for Time Pilot was a Monroe 8-way. I was able to obtain a NIB one for my Time Pilot cab. They feel pretty good, a little springier than a Wico. They also have a nice rolling action, like doing a circular move with the stick, which helps a lot for games like Time Pilot and Gyruss, which both came with the Monroe sticks.

The bad news is that they are terribly hard to find, especially "new in the box" like the one I found. My Time Pilot came with a 4-way Wico and it played surprisingly well, most likely because the restrictor was beat to death and it acted like an 8-way.

Below are some pics of the Monroe I put in my cab:

Kremmit · « **Reply #5 on:** July 07, 2004, 11:42:25 pm »

Quote from: OSCAR on July 07, 2004, 06:37:30 pm

The OEM joystick for Time Pilot was a Monroe 8-way. I was able to obtain a NIB one for my Time Pilot cab. They feel pretty good, a little springier than a Wico. They also have a nice rolling action, like doing a circular move with the stick, which helps a lot for games like Time Pilot and Gyruss, which both came with the Monroe sticks.

Oscar- Thanks for this. I was a Gyruss freak back when. I *knew* the stick was different, but didn't know what kind to be on the lookout for. Thanks again!

allroy1975 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 08, 2004, 12:32:23 am »

any idea if that ebay seller's sticks could be replaced with the on in my Uncle's machine? There's obviously nothing wrong with the metal post or the black ball...it's the rest of the joystick that's horked.

just an idea.

Thanks for all the replies.

Allroy

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 08, 2004, 02:09:04 am »

Heya Oscar,

Thanks for the pics. Ive been currious about the timepilot style sticks for some time.

Any chance you could show more pics of its internal construction?

Im guessing that it uses a ball pivot that rest inside of that metal pertrusion? Any springs in there? Any other details appreciated.

Lilwolf · « **Reply #8 on:** July 08, 2004, 07:30:24 am »

before getting a leaf 8way with corners (where you can feel being topleft... ie square actuator on the bottom of the joystick). I would go with a happs super for cheap.

Sure its a leaf switch, but it moves smoothly in circles. And you can get them for 8 bucks.

As for the Monroe joysticks... the do come up on ebay here / there. but maybe one ever other month. So don't expect a quick find... or a cheap one.

NoOne=NBA= · « **Reply #9 on:** July 08, 2004, 10:21:51 am »

LilWolf,

Leaf 8-ways don't HAVE corners.
They use round restrictor holes to guide the stick.
The Supers (with their square restrictor hole) have ALOT more corner by comparison.

Also, the Happs Super is NOT a leaf switch stick.

Lilwolf · « **Reply #10 on:** July 08, 2004, 10:45:39 am »

Opps..

Sure its a microswitch... (and finish there)

I thought there where some leaf switches with corners. (with restriction or actuators... I haven't tried them all)

but more of what I was saying. Supers work great... but click... And cheap..

A good replacement while waiting for the perfect replacement.

NoOne=NBA= · « **Reply #11 on:** July 08, 2004, 10:52:13 am »

Truthfully, the Wico 8-ways are alot closer in feel to the original, and in looks, than the Supers.

I can feel the corners on a Super.
I can't feel them at all on a Wico.

Karman · « **Reply #12 on:** July 08, 2004, 01:58:23 pm »

Monroe joysticks are AWESOME. Before you replace the one on your uncle's machine, try taking it apart and lubricating it. Yes, lube it. The Monroe sticks are almost entirely made of metal. The metal shaft has a metal sleeve around it and over time they begin to rust together. This makes them hard to move. (At your next auction, check out a Gyruss or Time Pilot that has been sitting in a warehouse for years - the joystick will be so rusted that it can't move at all). You can take the joystick apart, separate the shaft from the sleeve, polish the rust off and lightly lube the sleeve. As long as the sleeve moves freely on the shaft, you're in good shape. There's no rubber grommet to wear out like Wico's. For games that require constant circular motion, these sticks are great. I've wondered what one would be like on the shooter side of Robotron - if I can ever locate another one I'll try it.

NoOne=NBA= · « **Reply #13 on:** July 08, 2004, 02:23:31 pm »

And while you are taking it apart, please shoot/post some pictures.

There are two reasons for this:

1) YOU will have pictures of how it should go back together.
2) WE will get to see the guts of the thing.

OSCAR · « **Reply #14 on:** July 08, 2004, 09:57:06 pm »

Xiaou2 - Correct, the Monroe sticks use a ball pivot for the action, very similar to the Sinistar joystick. Works very well, too! As Karman wrote, they are made entirely out of metal, other than the white plastic actuator.

The spring is a smaller overall diameter than commonly found on other joysticks, but it has a fairly large wire size, so it is pretty hefty. The resistance caused by the spring is pretty comparable to the rubber grommet on the Wico's.

The overall design of the stick is surprisingly simple. Basically just a flat plate with tabs bent up to hold the leaf switches. In the center of the plate is a recessed bushing that is press fit into a housing. The ball pivot rests in the bushing and allows it "float". This gives the joystick ZERO corners.

Here are some more pics:

NoOne=NBA= · « **Reply #15 on:** July 08, 2004, 10:24:52 pm »

OMG!

I've got one of those, that I got in a package deal awhile back.

I didn't realize it from the mounted pictures, but the unmounted one sparked my memory.

Guess it's time to build yet another module.

Time Pilot is one of my all-time favorites.

Tailgunner · « **Reply #16 on:** July 08, 2004, 10:30:33 pm »

The Monroe in my Time Pilot cab is different from Oscar's. While I had it apart for cleaning I broke out the calipers and 3D modeled all the pieces. If your's is similar to this one the rendering would make a pretty good exploded view showing how it fits together.

jcoleman · « **Reply #17 on:** July 08, 2004, 10:35:00 pm »

For the love of Time Pilot let's get that repro'd!

Coleman

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 09, 2004, 12:56:25 am »

I agree : ) Ill take 2 if the price isnt too bad.

I like the thinner shaft diameter of the time pilot sticks. They look alot more attractive externally. I think they were a little easier to move than the gyruss version as well...?

Id like to use them for those games as well as Robotron.
Wicos leafs are the only stick that really controls that game well... however thier rubber gromet dosnt last forever... and im not even sure that the sticks are being produced anymore.

Maybe the plastic spacer should just be made of metal for lastability?

Ohh - and maybe a few knob color selections:

black
translucent tron blue
translucent williams button red

AmericanDemon · « **Reply #19 on:** July 09, 2004, 01:03:12 am »

I'd be in for 4 of those bad boys. I agree metal would be better, but talk about one heavy stick. Get a full polished metal ball top too.

Stylin.

Tailgunner · « **Reply #20 on:** July 09, 2004, 02:33:43 am »

I don't think you'd want metal contacting the leafs from an electrical standpoint.

MinerAl · « **Reply #21 on:** July 09, 2004, 03:22:41 am »

Quote from: OSCAR on July 08, 2004, 09:57:06 pm

The overall design of the stick is surprisingly simple. Basically just a flat plate with tabs bent up to hold the leaf switches. In the center of the plate is a recessed bushing that is press fit into a housing. The ball pivot rests in the bushing and allows it "float". This gives the joystick ZERO corners.

That looks much simpler than, for instance, the Vortex spinner...

We have a few super complicated options for new joysticks. How about a surprisingly simple one?

telengard · « **Reply #22 on:** July 09, 2004, 03:54:44 pm »

These joysticks are awesome. Both Gyruss and Time Pilot had a great feel. Over the past year or 2 I was able to get 2 brand new (NOS) ones from eBay. They show up occasionally.

I haven't had time to make a module for them yet though. I am also trying to figure out how to get my Berzerk joystick (huge bat handle) working. It seems to be optical. I'm hoping I can use the shaft/bat on a regular Wico 8 way. Just need more free time to get all this done.

I'm still on the look out for a few other unique joys, mostly the oversized joystick from Exidy's Venture. I also have yet to see the little mini 4 way with the red ball top that is in Frogger.

For the Karate Champ guru, what kind of joysticks were used on that machine? Wico 4 ways?

Karman · « **Reply #23 on:** July 09, 2004, 04:27:30 pm »

Tailgunner - can you post a photo of what yours looks like assembled?

Tailgunner · « **Reply #24 on:** July 09, 2004, 06:01:18 pm »

Quote from: Karman on July 09, 2004, 04:27:30 pm

Tailgunner - can you post a photo of what yours looks like assembled?

Sure, I've got both a cutaway and fully assembled versions of the model. I'll run a few renders and post the results.

Kremmit · « **Reply #25 on:** July 09, 2004, 07:56:56 pm »

Quote from: telengard on July 09, 2004, 03:54:44 pm

I am also trying to figure out how to get my Berzerk joystick (huge bat handle) working. It seems to be optical. I'm hoping I can use the shaft/bat on a regular Wico 8 way. Just need more free time to get all this

Nothing to do with the Time Pilot / Gyruss joysticks, but Telengard, you are looking for one of these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6105546847&ssPageName=STRK:MEDW:IT
Those Berzerk opticals were famous for breaking down, so much so that Stern finally had to produce this kit to convert them, because operators couldn't keep the machines running.

telengard · « **Reply #26 on:** July 09, 2004, 09:24:21 pm »

Quote from: Kremmit on July 09, 2004, 07:56:56 pm

Quote from: telengard on July 09, 2004, 03:54:44 pm
I am also trying to figure out how to get my Berzerk joystick (huge bat handle) working. It seems to be optical. I'm hoping I can use the shaft/bat on a regular Wico 8 way. Just need more free time to get all this

Nothing to do with the Time Pilot / Gyruss joysticks, but Telengard, you are looking for one of these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6105546847&ssPageName=STRK:MEDW:IT
Those Berzerk opticals were famous for breaking down, so much so that Stern finally had to produce this kit to convert them, because operators couldn't keep the machines running.

Thanks for the info! That picture is pretty fuzzy. What exactly are they converted to? Leafs? It would be OK with me to just place the handle on a Wico base, but I was just checking and it doesn't seem like it would work.

Kremmit · « **Reply #27 on:** July 10, 2004, 12:57:59 am »

I believe it was some sort of Leaf switch base, made by Wico. However, I do not have one, & could be wrong. I did see one one ebay once before, so keep looking!

MinerAl · « **Reply #28 on:** July 10, 2004, 06:43:55 am »

Quote from: telengard on July 09, 2004, 03:54:44 pm

For the Karate Champ guru, what kind of joysticks were used on that machine? Wico 4 ways?

Many kits used Wico 4-ways, but the original dedicated machine came with black "euro" sticks with the bat/ball sticks. I've had my CP all the way apart, and even dismantled the joys, and nowhere does it say a manufacturer on them.

So, I'd kind of like to know what they are too

NoOne=NBA= · « **Reply #29 on:** July 11, 2004, 09:27:32 pm »

I also just realized that AGGIEZ gave away one of these last month, on the BST forum.

independentthread · « **Reply #30 on:** July 12, 2004, 02:27:49 pm »

I have to agree with everyone else on this. Those sticks look NICE...
Hey Oscar, why don't you take the leap in putting Happs out of business by selling reproductions of that stick??

independentthread · « **Reply #31 on:** July 12, 2004, 02:49:21 pm »

I would imagine you can, but I've never had the chance to use one. Can you feel the corners on the P360's as much as a Super or the like?
Anyone who has one please pipe in, because that might be an easier to find option in this situation...and there might even be a chance of stick swappage for the balltop.

NoOne=NBA= · « **Reply #32 on:** July 12, 2004, 04:32:47 pm »

The P-360s are optical, and don't HAVE corners.

NoOne=NBA= · « **Reply #33 on:** July 12, 2004, 07:01:30 pm »

Allroy, check your PM.

Kremmit · « **Reply #34 on:** July 13, 2004, 01:40:01 am »

Quote

Posted by: independentthread Posted on: Yesterday at 02:49:21pm
I would imagine you can, but I've never had the chance to use one. Can you feel the corners on the P360's as much as a Super or the like?
Anyone who has one please pipe in, because that might be an easier to find option in this situation...and there might even be a chance of stick swappage for the balltop.

According to this thread: http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=21561
Wico ball tops will fit a p360 without heavy modification. I have not tried this myself, as I don't have a p360 to test with. Hope to find the $$ for one before they go off sale on 7-31-04. http://www.happcontrols.com/wp/item_search.html?item-no=50-0346-00

Kremmit · « **Reply #35 on:** July 13, 2004, 01:45:34 am »

Allroy, check your PM again.


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