I suck at painting! Any tips to do better?

[crashwg]

Ok, so I've been painting my MiniGalaga this morning and I'm not at all impressed with my workmanship.

I'm using a latex semi-gloss paint with a smooth finish foam roller and where the edge of the roller goes when painting there are thicker lines.  Can I sand those off before the next coat?  What can I do to avoid the same thing on the next coat?

Also, I've read a bunch of times that you should: prime, sand, paint, sand, paint... but what method should I use for the sanding part?  After the primer I sanded by wrapping 180grit arround a couple sheets of paper towel to try and avoid deeper gouges caused by the corners of sanding blocks.  Should I do pretty much the same thing between paint coats but maybe with a higher grit?  What about wet sanding?  Is that even an option?

All I can say is I'm glad I'm putting sideart on it eventually and I really hope that will distract people from the bad paint job.

[SirPeale]

lighter coats, and don't push down so hard.  That's what's causing the lines.

Are you using a foam roller?

[MarkV]

I just started painting with an HVLP gun (woodwork, not MAME cabinets).  It's amazing once one gets the hang of it in terms of speed/quality.  $20 a day or so for rental.  But anyway...

When sanding between coats, use something like the 3M foam sanders.  They look like sponges (are softish like a sponge), but have various grits.  

For the woodwork I'm working on - I prime, dry sand (220 grit) then I either prime again + dry sand (220 grit).  The reason for the second coat is that the first coat sometimes reveals areas that I missed filling with putty/caulk.  I'm dry sanding with a orbital palm sander.

So, after the priming is done, I switch to the finish coat.  I use a finish coat and then wet sand with the 3M sanding sponge.  This makes a very smooth finish, but takes the gloss off of it.  I then finish coat again, wet sand, and do a final finish coat.

So, that's with HVLP, it's probably a little different, but the sanding principal should be the same.

[OSCAR]

If you have to use latex for one reason or another (oil based enamels give a better finish, IMO), then try adding some Floetrol to the paint.  Floetrol is typically available at any hardware store.  What it does is extend the drying time of latex paint so it levels itself better before it dries.  That's one reason I don't use latex paints if I am brushing them on, they dry so fast that they leave all sorts of marks and brush strokes.  I hear some people swear by Floetrol and won't use latex paint without it...

[spystyle]

I recommend painting your entire cabinet with a 3" nylon bristle paint brush (15$ Home Depot)

If you want to sand in-between coats I'd say use 100 grit sandpaper with an electric finishing sander ($20 Wal-Mart)

always paint from top to bottom,

dip you paintbrush in the paint pail half-way, then wipe against the pail on both sides before brushing it on to the cabinet

several light coats

I use Wal-Mart's semi-gloss paint (10$ gallon) and it looks great, it's cheap and washable.

Dig it ?
Craig

[ekopp2]

I used latex paint and the results are quite good (not to say that it couldn't be improved by the suggestions by Oscar and Peale). A couple of things that I experience:

Definitely use a foam roller. I ended up using the little 4" foam roller, which was more than big enough for the small surface area. Plus, the smaller roller allows you to get around the odd shape of the cabinet a bit better.

Of course, make sure to prime, sand, paint, sand, etc. Some people swear by two primer coats... I didn't go quite that far.

For sanding, I used a palm sander. This helps a ton. It's a lot easier than sanding manually with a block, and the results are smoother and more even. After the primer, I used 120 grit. I moved up to 220 after the first two coats of paint and finally to 320 before the final coat.

It'll take a couple of coats to get an even finish. Don't get discouraged if the paint job doesn't look "production ready" after the first coat And, don't try to put the paint on extra thick. Just put on a nice even coat and let it dry. Sand and repeat. And, take your time to sand at any 90 degree corners (you may need to go to the block to do this properly... you'll be happy you did).

Also, don't put too much pressure on the roller or it will squeeze paint out to the edges (Peale mentioned this as well). Three or four coats of paint applied in this way will come out looking very sharp and very smooth.

[Rocky]

Painting, like anything, takes a little practice to get good.

The nice thing is that you can always sand it smooth if the finish doesn't come out good.

I always use 320 grit between coats and usually sand lightly with a block.  (Basically you are just polishing the paint, I wouldn't use power tools for this).  100 grit is way too coarse for between coats.

Also, Latex dries too quick (I've never tried that stuff that Oscar is talking about but it sounds like it slows the drying process). I use oil based paint for my cabs. It takes forever to dry, but it gives a nice hard, beautiful finish.

Power sprayers do the best job but require the most skill.

Don't use brushes, they are the worst.

Use the foam roller. To avoid lines, put the paint on and spread it around good. Run the roller in every direction possible, then after it's even, lightly run the roller over the whole surface in parallel lines.  (For oil based paint, it flows together and makes an even coat -- since it literally takes hours for it to dry)

Also, I don't sand before the last coat.

Good luck,

Rocky

[rdagger]

I was just at the paint store and the guy recommended using Gripper water-based primer-sealer for the MDF before painting.  He also recommended Floetrol for the HVLP.  I used to suck at painting, but I found that if you actually following the instructions and have some patience it comes out great.  Make sure you clean the surface before painting and don't rush it.

[darktemp]

Probably a stupid question.  Can you use a water based primer (Kilz Premium) with oil based paint?

[sofakng]

How many coats of paint is typically required to have a nice finish?

So far I've primed my cabinet and painted it with two coats of Behr's Premium High-Gloss Black (latex).  Before painting the second coat, I sanded all the rough spots down...

Well, the second coat STILL doesn't look that great.  It seems like both of the sides have a lot of "circle marks".  You can really see streak-marks too much (but you can somewhat see them), but you can definitely see all these areas where the paint looks lighter or something...

How many coats of paint is typically required?  I'm going to be painting a third coat over the weekend?

Any other tips for me?

[sofakng]

Well, I've put on 3 coats now.

The third coat looks the WORST!!

I've followed nearly every tip in this thread except for buying Floetrol.  That's the only left to try.

I've purchased the best foam roller I could find and I've been putting the paint on fairly thick and rolling it in all directions.  Then I'll roll in parallel lines (lightly) up and down the entire sides of the cabinet.

What can I possibly be doing wrong?

I'm using Behr Premium Plus High Gloss, but I doubt that matters.

So far my paint job looks TERRIBLE so any help what-so-ever would be greatly appriciated.

How many coats should I need to apply?

[Sephroth57]

hey guys i was thinking of painting my cab using krylon fusion spray paint, do you think this will work good? i sanded it down with very fine 150 sandpaper so i think it will stick good. what do you think?

[ChadTower]

I'm using Behr Premium Plus High Gloss, but I doubt that matters.

So far my paint job looks TERRIBLE so any help what-so-ever would be greatly appriciated.

How many coats should I need to apply?

That's your mistake, right there.  Behr's is GAAAAARBAGE.  I used it to do the trim in my kids' rooms.  I was painting white wooden trim.  I put 2 coats of Kilz on it and was painting dark blue.  It took me 7 COATS to get it so you couldn't see the primer and by then it was so thick I may as well have put blue putty on it.  Never buy paint at Home Depot.  There's a reason Behr's is cheaper than other paints.  

Seriously, I thought I was terrible at painting too.  Then someone gave me an Ace Hardware gift certificate so I went and got some Ace paint to do another room.  The results were stunningly different after even the first coat.  With that lesson learned I moved up to a high quality Sherwin Williams paint for the rest of the house and the results are great.  The trim in the kids' rooms looks like it was done with finger paints by comparison.

Paint is just like everything else, probably far more so... you get what you pay for.

[sofakng]

Well, the problem I'm having isn't because of the paint thickness.  You can see the paint perfectly fine (the primer disappeared after the first coat of paint).  The problem is that I see a TON of streak marks (you can see where the roller went).

As for the brand of paint, perhaps Behr's is junk but it certainly wasn't cheap.  The primer they sold me was $22 and the paint (Behr's Premium Plus High Gloss) was $25.  So to paint the cabinet:  $50.  I am under the impression that "cheap" paint would be sub $20... but of course I could be very mistaken.

Anyways, does anybody have any other suggestions for me?  I'd like to try another coat tonight but I'm worried that the more coats I start painting the worse and worse it will look.

[ChadTower]

Well, the problem I'm having isn't because of the paint thickness.  You can see the paint perfectly fine (the primer disappeared after the first coat of paint).  The problem is that I see a TON of streak marks (you can see where the roller went).

As for the brand of paint, perhaps Behr's is junk but it certainly wasn't cheap.  The primer they sold me was $22 and the paint (Behr's Premium Plus High Gloss) was $25.  So to paint the cabinet:  $50.  I am under the impression that "cheap" paint would be sub $20... but of course I could be very mistaken.

Anyways, does anybody have any other suggestions for me?  I'd like to try another coat tonight but I'm worried that the more coats I start painting the worse and worse it will look.

Home Depot sells Behr's much cheaper than that in my area.  We're talking <$20.  I've found the quality paints, at least here in MA and with my experience, start at $25 and usually approach $30.  On the bright side, to paint a cab you will only need one can and you'll have plenty left over for touchups later on or for more cabs.

If you're battling the streak marks, definitely lean less on the roller and sand more between coats.  You should be able to sand those out with a palm sander.  It really does sound like you're oversaturating the roller and/or leaning on it too hard.  When combined with the quick drying latex, the streaks are almost inevitable.

Quick question?  Is your cab vertical or horizontal while you're painting?  

[sofakng]

The cabinet is standing upright (vertical) while I'm painting it.  I do think that perhaps I'm pressing too hard on the roller.  It kind of feels like I'm trying to squeeze the paint out of the roller...

Should I try looking for some of that Floetrol as well to help?

[Mr. Dude]

I've used Behr paint before and have had good results actually.  I've painted 3 rooms in my house using Behr paint and they turned out great.

Hey Sephroth57,
I take it your cabinet is plastic?  I've used Krylon fusion on lawn furnature and it came out ok.... I've never tried it on a cabinet or anything like that though so I'm not sure there.

[daeven]

Actually Behr is one of the better brands of paints if you believe Consumer Reports.  Others include Benjamin Moore and whatever Lowes' house brand is.  They all differ based on the finish type, though.

I found that the cheapest foam roller was the best - it was thin and barely holds any paint.  The only place I can find them is at ACE.  As others have said, many very thin coats are best.

When painting over Kilz, you need to cover the whole surface with Kilz before painting over it.  I don't know if that is what you did, ChadTower, but I believe that is what it says on the Kilz.  My house is filled with 30-year-old unpainted, unfinished trim and windows, so I'm way too familar with it.

As for ACE paints, I can only speak for their primer.  It looked like water in the pail, and it looked like water on drywall.  Maybe I got a bad gallon, but it was cheap.

[bdsjake]

if you squeeze the roller while painting, you will find paint accumlates on the ends, and so you get the streaks.  Just a matter of practice and patience, and use thinner coats, takes time to do it right.

[sofakng]

if you squeeze the roller while painting, you will find paint accumlates on the ends, and so you get the streaks.  Just a matter of practice and patience, and use thinner coats, takes time to do it right.

Right, but when I see the globs of paint near the ends, I lightly roll it up and down...

How many light / thin coats do you guys paint in total?  5 coats?  ...more?

[Sephroth57]

I've used Behr paint before and have had good results actually.  I've painted 3 rooms in my house using Behr paint and they turned out great.

Hey Sephroth57,
I take it your cabinet is plastic?  I've used Krylon fusion on lawn furnature and it came out ok.... I've never tried it on a cabinet or anything like that though so I'm not sure there.

it has a laminate over the wood, so the outside feels like a plastic. Im guessing unless i wanted to get all the laminate off normal paint wouldnt work to well on it. Ive used fusion on a couple interior pieces in my car and they came out great

[bdsjake]

5 coats should be plenty.  I am in the process of painting a cab right now.  Just finished two coats of primer (Kilz, using 4" foam roller to lay down thin coat), I anticipate 3-4 coats of black paint should do it.  Sanding with 220 grit orbital sander in between coats.


Not sure what else to suggest for you sofakg, maybe post some pics?  That might help us figure out what's going on with your paint.

[ChadTower]

Actually Behr is one of the better brands of paints if you believe Consumer Reports.  Others include Benjamin Moore and whatever Lowes' house brand is.  They all differ based on the finish type, though.

I found that the cheapest foam roller was the best - it was thin and barely holds any paint.  The only place I can find them is at ACE.  As others have said, many very thin coats are best.

When painting over Kilz, you need to cover the whole surface with Kilz before painting over it.  I don't know if that is what you did, ChadTower, but I believe that is what it says on the Kilz.  My house is filled with 30-year-old unpainted, unfinished trim and windows, so I'm way too familar with it.

As for ACE paints, I can only speak for their primer.  It looked like water in the pail, and it looked like water on drywall.  Maybe I got a bad gallon, but it was cheap.

I had painted fully over the entire surface, twice, with Kilz.  Even after 5 coats of Behrs you could still see through to the primer in some spots.  It was really frustrating.  Using the same Kilz and some Sherwin Williams high end paint, I had better results on the first coat of paint than I did with 6 coats of Behr.  It was really annoying.

I don't know about Ace's primer as I only used their semigloss latex and it was pretty decent.  It was not, though, far off in color from the primer.