Planning my cabinet - what controls do I need?

[Bursar]

I've been using MAME for ages, and for some reason only just found out about this site.

Needless to say I've got the bug, and over the weekend have been pricing up components and drawing plans for the cabinet I'm going to build.

It's going to be a 4 player beast (nothing like starting small eh? ), but I'm just thinking about all the buttons I'll need. Here's what I reckon:

4 x Happ Super Joysticks
6 x Buttons for Player 1
6 x Buttons for Player 2
4 x Buttons for Player 3
4 x Buttons for Player 4
4 x Start Buttons and Coin Buttons

I'd love to have some extra sticks for games that use 2 (Smash TV for instance), but I think I'll have problems placing them. A trackball would be nice as well, but it will add significantly to the cost

Then there's the extra buttons I need to control MAME.

Tab
P
Enter
Escape
Left Shift
F7

That should give me enough to bring up the menu, pause, exit, save and load.

Are there any obvious ones that I've missed? I'm going to be wiring them up via an I-PAC4 if that helps.

Any other hints and tips that you may be able to give me would also be appreciated

[SNAAAKE]

well..

if you are goin to be making a 4 players then expect a lot to pay..from what i can guess..forget the extra buttons and just add a keyboard drawer.then you wont have to ever worry about extra buttons.you can also use the mouse there.try to get the 34" svga arcade monitor from ebay..i wish i can go back and remake my cab..then i would add 34" svga..i think the monitor is still there...not my auction but the seller claims its brand new..buy price is $400..which is a very very very good deal...also if you have enough skills then go straight 4 players show case type cabinet..if you get the monitor then go for this...since you will be making 4 players cab.i-pac is good for your situation and use super joystick and horizontal buttons from happ..and definetly add some artwork..man man man..i just got mine today from kinkos..feels 200% better now..

[Bursar]

I will have a keyboard draw with a mouse as well so I can still use the PC as a PC.

It would just be nice not to have to keep pulling it out when I want to change games, hence the extra buttons.

I'm a bit stuck for monitors. I can stick a 17" monitor in as I can get one easily enough, and with luck, I may be able to get my hands on an old 20" one. No idea if it will run properly with MAME though. Have to test it first

Anything else will cost money, which is in short supply I know that to do it justice, you need a decent sized screen, but I just can't afford it.

In fact to keep the initial costs down a bit, I will design the cab for 4 players, but only buy 2 players worth of buttons and sticks. Once the bank balance has recovered, I'll get the remaining two sets to complete the control panel.

I don't have the space for a showcase cabinet, but it certainly would look cool in the spare bedroom!!

[SNAAAKE]

damn...
same here...
no space....

then try to get 19" eygo svga arcade monitor from ebay..they run too cheap for the quility..look around...you might find as cheap as $150 maybe..pc monitor suck to play games on it(mame).it would suck bad for 4 players though..hehe...the screen aint that big..good for 2 people..

[Sasquatch!]

I know that you're wanting to keep costs down, but I gotta tell you: You'll probably regret not having a trackball.  If the price of a Happ trackball scares you off, at least take a look at maybe mounting a Kidsball or a CompUSA Crystal trackball in there.

Also, I went with a wireless keyboard (LogiTech cordless I-Touch RF keyboard) which ran me about $45.  It allows me to still be able to have a working keyboard without having to futz around with hard-mounting a keyboard into the cabinet.  One of the best decisions that I made.

[Lilwolf]

A few things.  

1) Consider a hotswappable control panel.  All the keyboard encoders can do this.  Just means you need to find something to plug them in.  I use 2 25pin ends (you can get at radio shack for a few bucks).

2) If your going 4 player, you will REQUIRE a GOOD encoder!  You wont get a keyboard hack to work hands down.  You might get a joystick one, but it will probably be a mess.  I have a MK64 and it's GREAT!  Ipacs now have a 5+ version out.

3) As for monitors.  If you can't afford something new, use whatever and leave in the plans the ability to change it later without to much hassle.  The Eygos are pretty good most of the time.  But some people got shafted by them.  I LOVE mine (27").  So consider it a risk.  I would go with a standard monitor initially and wait until you can get a SVid TV and a good TV out (what I think is the best output other then a real arcadeCRT... but getting windows with those are hard).

4) 4player cabs if you can get all 4 next to each other is find for smash tv.  not perfect but will do... but with a hotswappable control panel, its just 40 bucks in new joysticks sometime in the future.

good luck

[Bursar]

If the control panel is large enough (and I suspect it will be), then I can always design for the trackball and fit it at a later date. The thing is, I'll need an Opti-Pac as well. Does the cost ever stop??

Also, I'm in the UK, so shipping these things from the US also costs a fair bit.

I am planning on making the control panel removeable, as I have a feeling it will be too large to fit through doors otherwise Haven't decided if I'll design it so I can swap the panels over or not. I'll think about that.

Lilwolf, as I said in my first post, I'll be using an I-PAC4 to hook the controls to my PC, so I shouldn't have any problems there (crosses fingers).

The wireless keyboard and mouse sound like an option, but I have a computer table that has 3 sliding shelves on it, so I should be able to nick the rails from that and make a keyboard draw without too much hassle.

Looks like it's back to the drawing board to work over my plans.

Thanks for the help. If you have anything else to add, please feel free

[hyiu]

about your concern on the control panel...

if you don't mind, you can actually program Mame to have the coin button and the start button as the same button.  That should save you 4 buttons right there... (assuming you have a 4 player panel...) also, for games like Robotron, crazy climber and others that needs 2 sticks... you can actually change the config so that it uses the 1st player and the 2nd player's sticks... (well... it'll be farther apart.... but it should be playable....)

since its a multi-game machine... it cannot be specifically tailored for every game... so... as long as its playable, its ok for me....

[Bursar]

I'm not worried about saving space for a couple of buttons, the coin and start buttons will be right next to each other so are unlikely to get in the way.

I've printed out some templates for the controls, and I don't know if it's my memory, but the buttons seem huge! I've measured the print, and it's 1 1/8" across for the buttons, so they've printed out at the right size, but I honestly don't remember them being that big in the arcades when I was a kid! Maybe I should visit an arcade for research purposes

I'll have a think about the dual sticks thing. It'd be nice to have 2 duals for a double game of Smash TV, but I think that really does lead towards a second control panel being built. I'll skip them for now I think.

Now I have the joystick and buttons template printed, I can lay the bits of paper out to see what seems comfortable. I can also see if the trackball will fit in with my plan.

[neuromancer]

In my humble opinion, a 17 inch monitor would be too small for a 4 player game. Go for that 20 incher. I got one, an old radius brand macintosh fixed frequency monitor. It was easy to get it working under windows. Only problem is blue screen of death is unreadable.

Bob

[Bursar]

I did think a 17" may be a bit on the small side, but it's what I have to hand. I'm hoping to nab a 20" monitor from a friend, but he may take some persuading!

Thanks for the help.

[SirPoonga]

Tab
P
Enter
Escape
Left Shift
F7

...

I'm going to be wiring them up via an I-PAC4 if that helps.

A couple things to note, you aren;t oping to be able to use F7 on the ipac?   Plus left shift IS player 1 button 4 default mame settings.

What I am doing on my cainbet is completely remapping the buttons do to that IPAC limitation and the IPAC functionaltiy.  My Pause button on my cabinet will also be the IPAC shift function.  Then player 2 button 1 and 3 are load and save (with the shift).  I am going to map player 1 button one to enter.  player 1 button one with shift will be tab.  I have an esc button on my cabinet.  Check out the layout on my site (see sig).

By the way, what order are the players going to be on control panel.  from left to right many people put player 3 first, then player 1, then player 2, then player 4.  that waty for most games that aren't 4 player, player 1 is more in front of the monitor.

Most 4 player cabs use a 27" monitor.  You need that for that many people.

[Bursar]

After I made my first post I noticed on the Ultimarc site that F7 can't be mapped. Ah well, I can change that.

I was going to remap the shift button, as some people have commented on problems when bashing both player start buttons. I don't fancy running into the problem of having the game escape out on me

I'll have enough keys left over to do it safely. As for having Pause and Shift as the same key, I haven't actually tried this in MAME, but is there not a risk that the game will do a stop-start-stop-start as the Pause button is held down? Would be worth testing before implementing.

Your description of the control panel is how I'm going to do it, that way players 1 and 2 are in front of the screen.

The best I can do is a 20" monitor. I can't justify the expense of a larger screen (the 20" screen will be a freebie). I was thinking about a Fresnel lens (I posted a thread in the Monitors forum), but by all accounts, it won't be worth it.

[BombProofPlane]

im using a 32 inch tv for my showcase style cab with 4 players and imperial trackball

the 33inch arcade monitors are really just 32inch as 1 inch is covered by casing on a television no bs its true look at 22 inch monitors and the viewable is the same as a 21

it has component in but no progressive scan no big deal though anyone know of a vga to component interaced transcoder? or should i just use svideo

[SirPoonga]

for 4 player 20" is a little small, but how often is that going to happen?  I thought about that to.  I found an IBM trinitron P200 20" for my cab REALLY cheap.  And I have game pads for player 3 and 4 if that ever occurs.

[Bursar]

I've just done some preliminary layouts of the control panel by printing templates and laying them out on a table, and my CP is going to be about 4 1/2 ft wide!! Does this sound about right, or have I been too generous in my measurements?

If that's about right, then I'm not really going to have the space for a 4 player cabinet I don't fancy the idea of a 3 player, as the 2nd player will always be standing to the side of the cabinet slightly. So it looks like I might be down to a 2 player CP  

If anyone has some detailed measurements for a 4 player CP that they're willing to share, I'd love to see them.

[SirPoonga]

those measurements sound about right.
My CP as seen on my site is 33" wide.

[BombProofPlane]

mine is 54 inches wide

[Bursar]

I figured my measurements were about right. Damn. It's going to be too big

Hmm, now to think of ways to get the same functionality into a smaller space...

[SirPoonga]

removable panels...

[Bursar]

The Control Panel itself will be removable anyway, otherwise it would never fit through the door. The main problem is that by the time you have a 4 1/2ft wide CP, and some space either side of it for the players to stand, you really need about 6 ft of space.

That's going to take up an awful lot of space in my spare room.

I'm going to work on some more plans that have the 3rd and 4th players standing at more of an angle to the cabinet. This should make the CP slightly deeper, but less wide. Hopefully it will work out and they will still be able to see the screen OK.

Plan, plan, plan....

[Tiger-Heli]

Ok, I got into the fray a little late., but here's some suggestions:

You might want to use rotary joysticks for at least two of the sticks, if you ever play Ikari, Heavy Barrel, etc.

I would recommend an OSCAR spinner and maybe a second spinner with 1Up's Discs of Tron mod.  This way you can play DOT and the spinners can also be used as steering wheels for driving games.

Some games want Trigger-Fire joysticks.  You can add this by hacking a PC flightstick to one (or two) of your Supers.

Trackballs:  Wico has 2-1/4 inch trackballs for $24.99 here, http://www.wicothesource.com/new2/pages/page89.htm , although they are not for shoddy order filling and customer support.  Also, two of these are available on E-bay for $19.99 for the buy-it-now.

Also, this page http://members.shaw.ca/bakaye/tballhack.htm has info on wiring the trackballs up to a PC mouse.  I contacted the author and he said you would want the WICO active high t-balls and that the hack worked better with older PS/2 mice.

Still trying to work out the details for my personal project, but it's something to get you started.

[MacBandDirector]

OK, I can't seem to add a new topic.  Everytime I click on the post button I get an error saying "this topic not present - error addnewthread" or something similar.  

But anyway, what I wanted to ask ...

I can't seem to find a direct comparison of Happ's Super and Universal.  It seems from reading the Happ's pages that the controls are identical, the mounting being the only difference (and the price difference of course).

Does anyone have any info on the EXACT differences (control or mounting-wise) between the Super and the Universal, before I place my order with Happ?

Also -- vertical or horizontal buttons?

Any help appreciated, just reply here

[Tiger-Heli]

OK, I can't seem to add a new topic.  Everytime I click on the post button I get an error saying "this topic not present - error addnewthread" or something similar.  

But anyway, what I wanted to ask ...

I can't seem to find a direct comparison of Happ's Super and Universal.  It seems from reading the Happ's pages that the controls are identical, the mounting being the only difference (and the price difference of course).

Does anyone have any info on the EXACT differences (control or mounting-wise) between the Super and the Universal, before I place my order with Happ?

Also -- vertical or horizontal buttons?

Any help appreciated, just reply here

Hmmn, start new topic always works for me.

Joysticks:  http://www.oscarcontrols.com/joycompare/joyreview1.shtml

I'm going with Competitions, but most people prefer the supers over the . . .  my bad, I was thinking of the Ultimate, Don't know a lot about the Universals. . .  I think ultimarc is selling a variation of them now.  I think they switch between 4 and 8-way.  My advice: go either Comp or Super and get OSCARS restrictors.

Buttons:   http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=2077

Recommend the horizontal over the vertical, but I plan to try to find a competition at the local arcade as they might be what I prefer.  I think Slikstik uses Competitions, BTW.

[BombProofPlane]

if your wondering what Capcom vs snk 2 uses

competition joysticks and pushbuttons

this is from the sega service manual that come withe full kit for CVS2

http://www.seuservice.com has it for download

[CthulhuLuke]

CvS2 machines come stock with Competition joysticks, but a lot of newer arcade venders are putting in the Perfect 360 joystick kits, like the one near me.  Competitions work great, but the ones the arcade had before were used so much they were starting to lose their sensitivity, and breaking.
 -either one is cool, I go with Supers though, cause they feel the best for SNK style games.
   -CthulhuLuke

[Bursar]

Sorry for hijacking my own thread but back on track...

I was just thinking about my 4 player cab and the possible lack of space when I got an idea

You know in computer game stores when they have X-Box (or whichever) consoles hooked up for you to play, and they have those 'holders' for the control pads so you can play the games and not walk off with the control pad?

Does anyone know if would be worth hacking a controller and sticking it in one of those on the CP? Can you buy those control holder things from somewhere?

I could easily fit one of those to each side of the CP without it eating up all the space in my room. It's not exactly arcade like, but would definately achieve the right result at the end.

[BombProofPlane]

actually nintendo released a jamma version of the sness it had snes pads held onto the top of the control panel

they couldnt be too hard to make

[Bursar]

Yeah, I remember playing Star Fox on it just to impress my mates (I had the game for my SNES, so was quite good at it!).

I've decided to dump the 4 player cab idea, as it will just be too big

I have ordered the I-PAC4, so I can make a swappable panel, and if I win millions on the lottery, I can build the 4 player cab and stand in the games room of my mansion with no worries about space

I toyed with the idea of a 3 player cab, but that means one either the traditional layout of P1 in front of the screen and the other two to the side, or more creative solution with 2 players in front of the screen and just one player off to the side (think 3/4 of a 4 player cab).

I reckon that would look a bit daft though.

So I'm down to the 2 player cab Ah well, it was a nice dream.

I just want my buttons and sticks to arrive so I can start drilling and cutting!

[BombProofPlane]

Yeah, I remember playing Star Fox on it just to impress my mates (I had the game for my SNES, so was quite good at it!).

I've decided to dump the 4 player cab idea, as it will just be too big

I have ordered the I-PAC4, so I can make a swappable panel, and if I win millions on the lottery, I can build the 4 player cab and stand in the games room of my mansion with no worries about space

I toyed with the idea of a 3 player cab, but that means one either the traditional layout of P1 in front of the screen and the other two to the side, or more creative solution with 2 players in front of the screen and just one player off to the side (think 3/4 of a 4 player cab).

I reckon that would look a bit daft though.

So I'm down to the 2 player cab Ah well, it was a nice dream.

I just want my buttons and sticks to arrive so I can start drilling and cutting!

everything too big usually just revolves around your budget

bob roberts has good prices but hes gonna be gone for a month

[cdbrown]

You might want to use rotary joysticks for at least two of the sticks, if you ever play Ikari, Heavy Barrel, etc.

I would recommend an OSCAR spinner and maybe a second spinner with 1Up's Discs of Tron mod.  This way you can play DOT and the spinners can also be used as steering wheels for driving games.

Tiger-Heli,
Where would be the best place to put the rotarys.  In front of players 1 and 2, 3 and 2, etc?  I am planning on a 4-player and have gone with the idea of rotarys but am unsure which players should get them.  Are there games that use both a rotary and a normal stick - if that's the case then it would be 3 and 2.  If no games then 1 and 2.

Any advice would be good.

Cheers
-cdbrown

[Tiger-Heli]

You might want to use rotary joysticks for at least two of the sticks, if you ever play Ikari, Heavy Barrel, etc.

I would recommend an OSCAR spinner and maybe a second spinner with 1Up's Discs of Tron mod.  This way you can play DOT and the spinners can also be used as steering wheels for driving games.

Tiger-Heli,
Where would be the best place to put the rotarys.  In front of players 1 and 2, 3 and 2, etc?  I am planning on a 4-player and have gone with the idea of rotarys but am unsure which players should get them.  Are there games that use both a rotary and a normal stick - if that's the case then it would be 3 and 2.  If no games then 1 and 2.

Any advice would be good.

Cheers
-cdbrown

I don't know of any games using a rotary AND a standard joystick.  As far as positition, I have heard the Happ rotaries work just like the Happ Supers, so it doesn't matter (except having a layout that "works").  If you went with the SNK rotaries, I would want to avoid situations where one player was using the SNK and the other was using a Happ stick.

[Bursar]

I've just done some rejigging, and I've managed to get all 4 players into a CP that's 43" across.

Now to draw it out life size and see how it look in practice. Time to start saving for those extra joysticks and buttons