Recycling the case from an old PC?

[krick]

Tonight, I intended to make some progress on my MAME cabinet rewiring but, as usual, I got sidetracked into another project.

As I was lifting my computer out of my cabinet and I realized that it was big and awkward and most of the inside of the case was actually empty space.  So the gears started turning and I thought about trying to cram my PC parts into a smaller case.

I know that I _could_ just bolt everything to a board like some people do but I think that it would be more convenient (and rugged) to have everything in a case.

I was inspired by the projects on Mini-ITX.com:
http://www.mini-itx.com/projects.asp

Though, I probably won't go so far as jamming it all into a Windows XP (cardboard) box like this guy did...
http://www.mini-itx.com/projects/windowsxpbox/

I briefly looked online to see if someone sells a really compact case that will fit the following:

• a standard ATX motherboard with a P4/Athlon and a "normal" heatsink/fan unit
• a standard ATX power supply
• an AGP card (requiring a low profile card is OK)
• a hard drive
• a CD-ROM drive (optional but desired)
• a floppy drive (completely optional)

I really didn't find anything that would work.  Every compact case I found required a micro-ATX, flex-ATX, or mini-ITX motherboard.

So I started thinking about some of the old hand-me-down computers that I had sitting around and I found a victim that I think will do nicely.  It's an old Tandy MMPC Model 10 with a 486SX 25MHz CPU:



It's one of the old "pizza box" style desktop cases.  It uses a flex-atx motherboard with a riser card and it uses a standard sized AT power supply.   The motherboard dimensions are very close to a standard ATX motherboard except rotated 90 degrees.

Anyway, here's how the stats match up...

my current case dimensions: 8 x 17.75 x 16.25 = 2308 cubic inches

the new case dimensions: 4.125 x 15.5 x 15.5 = 991 cubic inches

It's less than half the size, volume-wise.

The power supply and the drives will just bolt into the stock locations with no modifications necessary.  However, fitting in the motherboard will take some creative dremel work.

These are the issues I've identified so far:

1) I'll have to rotate my ATX motherboard 90 degrees to get it in the case.  This will make the ports come out the side instead of the back.

2) Holes will need to be cut for the ports and an I/O shield will have to be attached somehow.

3) I'll have to tap some holes in the bottom of the case so I can screw in motherboard mounting studs.

4) I'll have to make (or purchase) a low-rise backet for my ArcadeVGA card.  I believe the card itself is low enough to fit comfortably in the case height-wise.


That's all I can think of off the top of my head.  I'm sure I'll discover more as I take everything apart.  I'll take more pictures and post them as I make progress.

[Tiger-Heli]

Ideas -

You can get a micro-atx case for around $30, and a micro-atx mobo for around $30 - much simpler.

I also found -

http://www.pcimicro.com/.sc/ms/dd/1076230412266759/9/nc/Case%2520%2526%2520Power%2520Supply--Slim%2520Case/829/CM-6985%2520ATX%2520%2520INTEL%5E2FAMD%2520SLIM%2520CASE%2520 (180W small PS, though)

http://www.cmicomputer.com/cgi-bin/quikstore.cgi?product=ipcpw1up0&detail=yes  ($$$$)

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-163-026&depa=1 (even more $$$$)

If you proceed with your idea, you will need to modify the Power Supply mounting also to support ATX instead of AT.

[SoundDoc]

I've done a couple of mods like this before. The desktop cases were pretty nice, and easy to mod, as their usually pretty much all plastic.

The only things I'd suggest you look out for are if you plan on adding any cards to the machine. You'd need to get pci and AGP riser cards to be able to use standard cards. (You can find them just about everywhere, they let you rotate the card 90deg, but they will cover up most your pci slots. As well, will the power supply fit? The power supply in it most likely won't run a P4 board, and a standard atx power supply may take up too much real estate inside. (don't those cases have a long skinny psu mounted on the left side inside?)

The last one I did was for my home theater system. I used a asus P4 mb, w/onboard everything, a ati 8500 all-in-wonder on a riser turning it 90deg, and jammed it all into a old pioneer CD player chassis. Looks like a cd player, all the buttons work on it like a cd player, small lcd fed info from winamp, and we use it as a PVR.

You can cram a system into just about anything, the killer is the height if the cards.

Now you've got me thinking about my design again.... I was going to mount the pc, psu, and other "goodies" I've been working on to the jamma mounting board that was in the machine, having it all hook up on the bottom edge through a 100 pin edge connector. So I could hinge the cp up, and just slide the whole "heart" out to work on it if I wanted. But mounting the pc in a case like this might be a better idea...  

sd

[krick]

I wasn't going to try to use the AT power supply.  I just mentioned that it was full sized which happens to be exactly the same size as an ATX power supply.  I tried my ATX power supply in the case and it fits perfectly, even the fan cutout is the same and the mounting holes are in the same spot.

After further research, it turns out that the form factor is actually NLX, not flex-ATX...

http://www.formfactors.org/search.asp?q1=NLX

The case is tall enough that I can use most "low rise" agp and pci cards so I don't need a riser.  The ArcadeVGA card is low enough if I remove the full sized bracket and upper VGA connector (it's on a cable attached to the bracket).

I was going to try to jam my 12 x 9 ASUS ATX motherboard into it sideways, but now I'm thinking that I might be able to find a P4 micro-ATX or flex-ATX motherboard that will fit with the connectors going out the back like normal.

[Chris]

Remember that these old cases were not designed for the thermal needs of modern processors!  Keep an eye on temperatures if you cram a P4 into this case...

[8bit]

That windows box is classic  

[blue]

Chris is right, heat is going to be a major issue

[Tiger-Heli]

I was going to try to jam my 12 x 9 ASUS ATX motherboard into it sideways, but now I'm thinking that I might be able to find a P4 micro-ATX or flex-ATX motherboard that will fit with the connectors going out the back like normal.

Well, if you're going to be buying a micro-ATX mobo now, why don't you just buy this http://www.pcdirect.com/product.asp?Sku=MINIU2%2D3304B for $39 shipped and scrap the project.  (Unless it's a proving you can type of deal, which I can respect).

Alternate product: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-127-040&depa=1

[krick]

Well, if you're going to be buying a micro-ATX mobo now, why don't you just buy this http://www.pcdirect.com/product.asp?Sku=MINIU2%2D3304B for $39 shipped and scrap the project.  (Unless it's a proving you can type of deal, which I can respect).
Alternate product: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-127-040&depa=1

I suppose I could go for a full micro-ATX board and case combo.  I hadn't thought of that.  Of course that will be probably at least $100 for both.  Thanks for the links.  I also considered one of the Shuttle XPC barebones but they're pretty pricey too.

My intention was to try to use a standard ATX power supply.  The case I have will work for that.  A micro-ATX case will most likely need a micro-ATX power supply.

And you are right, I'm mostly doing this project to prove that I can.  I also really enjoy the challenge.  If I wanted easy, I would have just bought one of those pre-made MAME arcade machines for $3000.  

[Tiger-Heli]

I suppose I could go for a full micro-ATX board and case combo.  I hadn't thought of that.  Of course that will be probably at least $100 for both.

Maybe a little less.  www.pricewatch.com and www.newegg.com are your friends here.

I also considered one of the Shuttle XPC barebones but they're pretty pricey too.

I almost mentioned that, but you wanted standard heatsink and PS, and like you said, they're pricey.

My intention was to try to use a standard ATX power supply.  The case I have will work for that.  A micro-ATX case will most likely need a micro-ATX power supply.

Didn't realize that, but you're probably right.

And you are right, I'm mostly doing this project to prove that I can.  I also really enjoy the challenge.

Yep, I know the feeling.

If I wanted easy, I would have just bought one of those pre-made MAME arcade machines for $3000.  

But what's the fun in that when you can spend 1,000's of hours of your time, and probably more money to build the same thing.
 

[moloch]

I am actually going to be buying a mini-itx board next week to try to make a mame machine out of and I was going to use an old case to cram it into. The machine I am going to use is running at about 600Mhz and has no fan so it should be very quite that would address any thermal issues. I may have to break down and use a mini-itx case.

[krick]

If I decide to go with a full micro-ATX board/case combo, I might go with one of these cases...

http://www4.tomshardware.com/howto/20031209/case-12.html

OR

http://www4.tomshardware.com/howto/20031209/case-14.html

[blue]

This is the case that i have and am rather happy with it.
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=664835&Sku=P456-5004&CatId=1508

Have a chaintech mobo with an AMD 2000+ 512MB and black CD to match. Use it for my Mame and PC gaming on my TV. For the Price i think that it was a fair deal. The onlt problen i had was, first time with a mirco-atx case, took some time getting use to working in such a small case.

Are you putting it in a cab? (i think you said that.)
Why do you care what the case looks like?
Just wondering?

[krick]

Yep.  I'm putting it in my cabinet.

I really don't care what it looks like as long as it's functional and compact so it's easy to get in and out of my cabinet if I need to work on it.

I could just bolt everything to a piece of wood but I want it to be a legitimate closed case for airflow and cooling reasons.

[Kremmit]

Posted by: krick  Posted on: Yesterday at 11:05:09am  
I could just bolt everything to a piece of wood but I want it to be a legitimate closed case for airflow and cooling reasons.

How could you get better airflow and cooling than mounting in the free, open air?    True, if you just mount it with no fans, a case with a power supply fan exhausting hot air is better.  However, if you board-mount it with a fan blowing across it, that's gotta be a "cooler" solution.

That said, there's nothing wrong with using a case if you want.    It sure makes pulling the computer out of the cab easier.

[krick]

How could you get better airflow and cooling than mounting in the free, open air?

Actually, a properly designed closed case that sucks cool air in on one side and exhausts hot air on the other and has an efficient air flow pattern that crosses all the major heatsinks will run much cooler than an open case (or components bolted to a board).

The problem is that without proper air currents  hot air will just hang around components.  The CPU heatsink fan will just recirculate the hot air that is hanging around.

In a closed case with proper air flow, the CPU heatsink fan will remove heat from the CPU into the surrounding air.  That heated air will then be moved out of the case and replaced by fresh cool air by the case fans.

Some of the best designs are ones that have ducts that bring cold air in from the outside and deposit it directly onto the heatsink/fans of the hottest components.

[krick]

I also considered one of the Shuttle XPC barebones but they're pretty pricey too.

I almost mentioned that, but you wanted standard heatsink and PS, and like you said, they're pricey.

Well, I'm still going to try to cram my ATX board into the old case above but in my searching, I came across this...

Silver AMS CF-968 gBox P4 Aluminum Barebone
http://store.yahoo.com/directron/cf968.html
It's $189 then there's a $50 mail-in rebate that brings it down to $139
Dimensions: 9.5(H) x 8.3(W) x 12(D)
Supports P4 400/533 FSB CPUs

I think it would make a nice foundation for a MAME cab computer.


They also sell this...
AMS gBox P4 Aluminum Barebone System CF-S868
http://store.yahoo.com/directron/gboxcfs868.html
for $149 (no rebate)
But it only supports P4 400 FSB CPUs

[independentthread]

Just to throw in my haypenny into the mix, I don't think the power supply on the first case that Tiger-Heli mentioned has the balls to run anything made recently.  As far as everything I've read goes, anything under a 200 watt power supply with most pentium 4 or AMD xx00 processors and that computer will be dead within a year.  I've actually been told that anything under a 250 watter can shorten the life of a processor.  I can't remember which magazine it was in, but it said that a motherboard with just an AMD 2000 and the lowest power fan available for it would start up when attached to a 160 watter.  Once you put in a video card and connected a hard drive, the fans would spin but the system would just sit there beeping with errors.