x-arcade and ipac?

[mcdo15]

Ok...i plan on using X-Acarde contorl panel (my cab will utlize ps2/dreamcast/saturn)  and i want to know if i can still make my own buttons (menu, insert coin, etc) and still run x-acarde at the same time....

i also want to add a rollorball ... is that possible..ty

[Snarbald]

How about just using the pcb off the x-arcade?

[mcdo15]

How about just using the pcb off the x-arcade?

i'm a n00b...can you point me to a good place to look for that....
well that effect when i switch it up for console systems?

is there any type of serial adapter i could use to keep everything pluged in, then when i want to switch systems, i can hit a button to change

[Tiger-Heli]

Ok...i plan on using X-Acarde contorl panel (my cab will utlize ps2/dreamcast/saturn)  and i want to know if i can still make my own buttons (menu, insert coin, etc) and still run x-acarde at the same time....

i also want to add a rollorball ... is that possible..ty

Your question is VERY unclear.

It's not obvious whether you simply want to add extra buttons to your X-Arcade, or whether you want to replace the X-Arcade PCB with an I-PAC, or what.

I'll try to cover the bases here:

The X-Arcade PCB has 4 selectable custom programming options via a rear-panel switch.  I don't know for sure if the PCB has any "unused" terminals that you could add extra buttons to.  But you could come up with an alternate setting, and relocate the switch, where say P1B1 was TAB, P1B2 was Enter, P1B3 was Tilde, P1B4 was Esc, etc.  Then relocate the programming switch and select position 1 for Mame gaming and position 2 for admin functions.

You could gut the X-Arcade, and wire in an I-PAC, but you would lose the ability to use the panel with console games.

You could wire in an I-PAC in parallel (probably in USB mode) to the X-arcade PCB and use the I-PAC for additional admin buttons, but this is an expensive solution and would only work for PC applications.

Trackball question is similar - you need either a mouse hack (www.oscarcontrols.com) or an Opti-Pac to connect it, and only for PC (not console) useage.

[whiteraven]

I think I know exactly where you are coming from.  I also have an X-arcade 2 player controller and it is wrecking my head whether I should gut it and use the parts for a control panel (4 player) or keep the X-arcade intact and build the base box that it would slot into (2 player).  I am using the UAII design btw.

I have already ordered 2 happ competition sticks and a set of competition buttons to replace the lesser quality parts in the x-arcade.  I am also considering buying 2 slikstik chrome handel perfect 360 optical joysticks as an upgrade from the competition joysticks, I am doing this mainly because I have read that these sticks willl be good for both fighting and 4 way games.....plus they are shiny :-)

That willl leave me with 2 competition sticks that I wouldn't want to go to waste. I would like to build a bigger control panel and use the upgraded x-arcade parts as player 1 and 2 while using a usb Ipac for the competition sticks and buttons which would serve player 3 and 4.  I might also rig up some admin buttons from the ipac (tab, esc, etc)

Then again that was a really good tip about using the switch to change to an "admin mode" and have the x-arcade buttons programmed to esc, tab and so on.  The other thing is maybe have a 4 player panel is overkill?  It is not that often that you'll get 4 people together how want to play one of the small amount of 4 player games but I am sure that those who have built a 4 player control panel haven't regretted it either.

So I guess what it comes down to is whether the Ipac can co-exist with the x-arcade and if it will be happy only looking after player 3 and 4.

I have given this a lot of thought and I might build a 2 player base and then upgrade to 4 player later (this is an expensive project, in so much debt but it is worth it) but this will affect my choice in a coin door because a 4 player coin door would look stupid with only 2 players and a 2 player coin door would look stupid with 4 players.

Like I mentioned earlier...my head is well and truely...wrecked!

[whiteraven]

would this type of thing work for switching between pc and consoles?  They are generally used for switching monitors?

http://www.trianglecables.com/4waydb9mansw.html

[mcdo15]

I think I know exactly where you are coming from.  I also have an X-arcade 2 player controller and it is wrecking my head whether I should gut it and use the parts for a control panel (4 player) or keep the X-arcade intact and build the base box that it would slot into (2 player).  I am using the UAII design btw.

I have already ordered 2 happ competition sticks and a set of competition buttons to replace the lesser quality parts in the x-arcade.  I am also considering buying 2 slikstik chrome handel perfect 360 optical joysticks as an upgrade from the competition joysticks, I am doing this mainly because I have read that these sticks willl be good for both fighting and 4 way games.....plus they are shiny :-)

That willl leave me with 2 competition sticks that I wouldn't want to go to waste. I would like to build a bigger control panel and use the upgraded x-arcade parts as player 1 and 2 while using a usb Ipac for the competition sticks and buttons which would serve player 3 and 4.  I might also rig up some admin buttons from the ipac (tab, esc, etc)

Then again that was a really good tip about using the switch to change to an "admin mode" and have the x-arcade buttons programmed to esc, tab and so on.  The other thing is maybe have a 4 player panel is overkill?  It is not that often that you'll get 4 people together how want to play one of the small amount of 4 player games but I am sure that those who have built a 4 player control panel haven't regretted it either.

So I guess what it comes down to is whether the Ipac can co-exist with the x-arcade and if it will be happy only looking after player 3 and 4.

I have given this a lot of thought and I might build a 2 player base and then upgrade to 4 player later (this is an expensive project, in so much debt but it is worth it) but this will affect my choice in a coin door because a 4 player coin door would look stupid with only 2 players and a 2 player coin door would look stupid with 4 players.

Like I mentioned earlier...my head is well and truely...wrecked!

don't x-arcade and ipac plug into same PS/2 keyboard slot?
yes, my head is wrecked also but i looks like i'm gutting out the x-arcade and makeing a new CP.  Opi-pac might be a solution for rollor ball but X-Arcade is releaseing a rollor ball in Aug with 3 mouse buttons.... i'm think i will email them to get the size of it. and leave space in the middle for it.  i just figured it be cheaper to go that route and it's already hooked up.  not sure why i'm afriad to hook wires up but maybe it's just me.  

Are the joysticks really that crappy?  is it worth to replace and easy to replace?

That willl leave me with 2 competition sticks that I wouldn't want to go to waste. I would like to build a bigger control panel and use the upgraded x-arcade parts as player 1 and 2 while using a usb Ipac for the competition sticks and buttons which would serve player 3 and 4.  I might also rig up some admin buttons from the ipac (tab, esc, etc)

hmm..i didn't think about that.  that is a great idea...plus you can switch that button on the fly if i'm not mistaken?

hmm..this is getting even better.


ok..now i a new question..i wansn't gonna do a coin slot but if i were too...techincally you you were saying before, i could just run a wire from coin to a button on x-arcade (like the side button) and the x-arcade would just be hooked up normally...?

thanks all for your time and effort and putting my mind to ease.

i do understand the rollor ball won't work for console games...

[Tiger-Heli]

I am also considering buying 2 slikstik chrome handel perfect 360 optical joysticks as an upgrade from the competition joysticks, I am doing this mainly because I have read that these sticks willl be good for both fighting and 4 way games.....plus they are shiny :-)

Two things to consider here - P360's won't work with the X-Arcade PCB - it's positive GND and I-PAC and P360's want Negative GND (not exactly accurate, but the simplest way to explain it).
P360's are a mixed bag for 4-way games - difficult to switch - You have to remove a clip and flip and actuator.  Once flipped - you can NOT hit diagonals (good), but you have full circular movement, not diagonally restricted movement (bad)

So I guess what it comes down to is whether the Ipac can co-exist with the x-arcade and if it will be happy only looking after player 3 and 4.

Shouldn't be a problem (only for PC games, though).

[Tiger-Heli]

would this type of thing work for switching between pc and consoles?  They are generally used for switching monitors?

http://www.trianglecables.com/4waydb9mansw.html

I think so, haven't used X-arcade, but it seems like it should work fine with it.

[whiteraven]

The rollerball that x-arcade are releasing is going to be in its own case if I am not mistaken and will defiiniately be to big to fit in the standard x-arcade 2 player panel.  You said though that you might be making your own panel and if so you could take the x-arcade rollerbal out of its box and put it into your custom panel, however I think that it might make more sense for you to just buy a happ trackballl whcih doesn't come in a box in the first place.

Personally for starters I will be going this route
http://www.geocities.com/lusosarge2000/etrackball.html

It is the only way to get a trackball inside the 2player controller.  

I will also be adding a spinner if possible (fingers crossed)
http://www.arcadecontrols.com/arcade_X-Arcade_review.shtml

I got a oscarcontrols model 3 spinner (the only one that will fit in there)
with the usb interface and left and right mouse button harness

I will wire up the left and right mouse button harness to the Player 2 bottom 2 buttons on the xarcade, I don't know if this will cause any side effects but hopefully not.

Don't know if they will both fit in there until I try.


Any happ joysticks shoud be easy to install into the X-arcade or at least that is what I have heard.
As for the joystick quality, I think that the X-arcade uses good parts but this is a dream project that I first Imagined when I was 10 years old...good isn't good enough.  I think that the competition buttons are a good investment (I am a huge fighter fan) and everyone says that they are the best for fighting games, plus I really don't like the sound of the X-arcade buttons.  To be honest though I am a noob and as these parts arrive I'll see what I like and what I don't, an expensive way of doing it but really the only option for me.

Hooking up the coin door to the side buttons should be fairly simple...just a few wires. Here is a webpage that uses a more complicated setup.  It should help as a guide.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/chris.nightingale1/arcades/cbmain.htm


I don't know if the Ipac can Daisy chain whith the X-arcade...would have to ask Ultimarc.  Does anyone else know?  That is why I thought that maybe going Ipac USB would remove any possible conflicts...Ultimarc also do an Ipac VE wich is a cheap usb ipac but may have enough features for what I have in mind.

I'll probably email Ultimarc and ask their advice.

[mcdo15]

would this type of thing work for switching between pc and consoles?  They are generally used for switching monitors?

http://www.trianglecables.com/4waydb9mansw.html

I think so, haven't used X-arcade, but it seems like it should work fine with it.

that is a great find

i've been looking for somthing like that...
that should work

[whiteraven]

Thanks Tiger-Heli for that info about the 360s....I haven't ordered them yet so that was really good advice.  I guess I will be sticking with the competitions in the X-arcade.  The other thing I was considering was having one t-stik plus and one normal t-stik as player three and player four.  Player 3 would be to the left of the X-arcade and Player 4 to the right.  They are secondary sticks so they should be fine for Turtles, Simpsons etc but aswell player three would double as the 4 way stick for those old skool classics...the only problem would be is that you would be playing at an angle.

Now that the competitons won't be going to waste it kind of takes away the need for a fout player panel, I could use joypads for player 3 and 4 for turtles simpsons etc.  The only thing that I am missing is a 4 way stik...that is why I am still considering the t-stik option above.

What do you think?

[Tiger-Heli]

. . . just buy a happ trackballl whcih doesn't come in a box in the first place.

Or ultimarc trackball ($28) or www.wicothesource.com trackball, or www.betson.com Imperial trackball.

I will wire up the left and right mouse button harness to the Player 2 bottom 2 buttons on the xarcade, I don't know if this will cause any side effects but hopefully not.

Side effects are the bottom two buttons will not work in console emulators.

Other options - unless your front-end needs mouse buttons, you can just use the X-arcade buttons as-is in MAME.  Or you can add separate mouse buttons that only go to the www.oscarcontrols.com harness.  I'm not sure that you can wire the buttons to both harnesses, probably not.

Any happ joysticks shoud be easy to install into the X-arcade or at least that is what I have heard.

Except the P360's.  These want +5V and individual switches to a common GND.  The X-arcade PCB uses a Common +5V rail and individual GND's.  There may be a way to make it work, but it won't be easy, and I don't know of anyone who's done it.

I don't know if the Ipac can Daisy chain whith the X-arcade...would have to ask Ultimarc.  Does anyone else know?  That is why I thought that maybe going Ipac USB would remove any possible conflicts...Ultimarc also do an Ipac VE wich is a cheap usb ipac but may have enough features for what I have in mind.

It will probably daisy chain, but I recommended USB for the same reasons you gave.

[Tiger-Heli]

Thanks Tiger-Heli for that info about the 360s....I haven't ordered them yet so that was really good advice.  I guess I will be sticking with the competitions in the X-arcade.  The other thing I was considering was having one t-stik plus and one normal t-stik as player three and player four.  Player 3 would be to the left of the X-arcade and Player 4 to the right.  They are secondary sticks so they should be fine for Turtles, Simpsons etc but aswell player three would double as the 4 way stick for those old skool classics...the only problem would be is that you would be playing at an angle.

Now that the competitons won't be going to waste it kind of takes away the need for a fout player panel, I could use joypads for player 3 and 4 for turtles simpsons etc.  The only thing that I am missing is a 4 way stik...that is why I am still considering the t-stik option above.

What do you think?

You've kind of got a jumbled reply there:  You need to decide first if you want a 4-player panel with a T-Stik for player 3 and 4, or a 2-player panel with gamepads (and how does the T-Stick plus fit into this)?

Just to throw ideas out at you - I like the Omni-Stik Prodigy over the T-Stick, but they are similar sticks.  (Prodigy lets you know whether the stick is in 8-way or 4-way mode before you start.)  Other thoughts -

If you like 4-player games, the Prodigy or T-Stick have a way different look and feel from the Competitions, so I think player 3 and 4 will be at a disadvantage (or advantage :-) ) - (of course they will be at more of a disadvantage with gamepads ;-) )

I also think having the stick offset that much (Player 3) will be awkward since most classics had a single 4-way in the middle.

If you go with a two player panel, you could use just T-Stiks or just Prodigies, but I think the short throw might bother you for fighters (see review and video at www.retroblast.com).

From what you have said, I would recommend building a 2-player panel with the Competitions and adding a central 4-way stick (Omni-Stick, EuroStick, Ms-Pac/Galaga reunion, Seimitsu) etc. for classics.

[mcdo15]

i following this 3/4 player controller sitatution and you mention usb encorder...

who makes a USB keyboard encoder?....
would i need sepearted encoder for trackball?

i wasn't looking at kepping x-arcade rollarball in it's case...i would take that apart also (i think)...
i might just leave it out when i need and put it away (very unconvient but whatever)

i don't know how to solder...whould anything i want to do extra besides cut out x-arcade and/or replace replace sticks be easy?

thank you.. (project keeps getting bigger)

[Tiger-Heli]

who makes a USB keyboard encoder?....

www.ultimarc.com (I-PAC, with adapter cable).

would i need sepearted encoder for trackball?

Yep, different input types - the t-ball would need either the Opti-pac or OSCAR's mouse hack.

i wasn't looking at kepping x-arcade rollarball in it's case...i would take that apart also (i think)...

Better to just buy an individual tball somewhere else then.

i might just leave it out when i need and put it away (very unconvient but whatever)

unless you do that :-)

i don't know how to solder...whould anything i want to do extra besides cut out x-arcade and/or replace replace sticks be easy?

So far, yes!

[mcdo15]

so i can use this product with player 3/4 with x-arcade setup as 1/2

http://www.ultimarc.com/ipacve.html?

and no soldering
sweet!

[Tiger-Heli]

so i can use this product with player 3/4 with x-arcade setup as 1/2

http://www.ultimarc.com/ipacve.html?

and no soldering
sweet!

Yes, but not for console games.

[fredster]

I had a lot of trouble with the Xarcade PCB.  I got one off of Ebay, and it's a jumbled mess to figure out what button goes where.  Once I did program it, it works OK, but there are still problems.

I have to reboot 2 -3 times to get the PC to recognize the keyboard.  I don't have that problem with the Ipac.  It comes up just fine without screwing with it.  The IPAC was cheaper too.

The folks at Xarcade are nice people, but I just didn't like the way the PCB was.  It's also much more limited because of the wires and plugs.  The IPAC is easier to wire and I think it's superior for custom mame applications.

[whiteraven]

Basically I will be keeping the x-arcade in its box, and inserting it into a base ala www.mameroom.com Ua2 x-arcade base plans.

In the X-arcade unit I will have an Ms Trackball explorer and an oscar model 3 spinner the spiner left mouse, right mouse buttons will be connected to the x-arcade buttons (bottom to for player 2) I woun't be disconnecting these buttons form the x-arcade controller so when I press a button it will send a signal to the x-arcade encoder but at the same time it will also send a signal to the oscar spinner harness which is connected via USB so basically when I press one button it will be the same as pressing a left click and a keyboard key at the same time or a right click and a keyboard key at the same time.  I think that this way I will still be able to use it with the consoles.

I take your point about the angle and I agree it would probably be crappy.
I want to keep the X-arcade in it's box though.  Any 4 way stick would have to go above it, below it or to either side of it.

The more I look at it the more it seems that I will have to do without the four way stik, atleast for now.

Your recommendation of a 2 player panel with a 4 way in the middle I think is a really good Idea and would probably work best for me.  I really wished I could of bought just the guts of the X-arcade without the wood...and even then all I would end up using is the encoder so I can hook up to the consoles.

Sorry if I am getting jumbled again but I really am at a confusing point of the project

[whiteraven]

I wish that there was a version of th Ipac that could be hooked up to multiple consoles easily....I know that you can hack gamepads but really that is just too much hassle, especially if you want to swap between 2 or 3 consoles quickly.

[Tiger-Heli]

In the X-arcade unit I will have an Ms Trackball explorer and an oscar model 3 spinner the spiner left mouse, right mouse buttons will be connected to the x-arcade buttons (bottom to for player 2) I woun't be disconnecting these buttons form the x-arcade controller so when I press a button it will send a signal to the x-arcade encoder but at the same time it will also send a signal to the oscar spinner harness which is connected via USB so basically when I press one button it will be the same as pressing a left click and a keyboard key at the same time or a right click and a keyboard key at the same time.  I think that this way I will still be able to use it with the consoles.

I'm not sure if you can wire it up this way without problems.  If it works, it sounds like a good idea, but I have my doubts . . .

The more I look at it the more it seems that I will have to do without the four way stik, atleast for now.

www.oscarcontrols.com used to sell a restrictor plate for the Competitions which would work well for you, then.

[whiteraven]

I saw the article on oscarcontrols for the restrictor plates installed on a hotrod.  It looks like a permament install...if I had only 2 fighter sticks then I would need it to come on and off really quickly.  Also I could find it for sale on their website.

[Tiger-Heli]

I saw the article on oscarcontrols for the restrictor plates installed on a hotrod.  It looks like a permament install...if I had only 2 fighter sticks then I would need it to come on and off really quickly.  Also I could find it for sale on their website.

The mounting plate or drilling template was a permanent install, the restrictors pop on and off in about 5 seconds.  I don't think they're currently available, but OSCAR might have some backstock.  E-mail him about them.

[mcdo15]

would this type of thing work for switching between pc and consoles?  They are generally used for switching monitors?

http://www.trianglecables.com/4waydb9mansw.html

i ask x-arcade about this... and here is there response

The switch you are looking at doesn't work exactly as it should, I actually have tried that exact one. The problem is that there is no delay at all between switching, so the X-Arcade doesn't power off for a second to reset it self, thereby being stuck thinking it is still on the last system. You can kinda hold the switch in between two modes to make it switch off, then continue switching the rest of the way, but it is a pain because the spot in setween is hard to find (small). I am not aware of one that is easier to use though either.

i am sad...

anybody know a way around this?

[whiteraven]

While not perfect, that is not bad either.  Sure beats going unplugging things and reconnecting things.  I am going to have a search around to see if I can find something that might work better

[mcdo15]

While not perfect, that is not bad either.  Sure beats going unplugging things and reconnecting things.  I am going to have a search around to see if I can find something that might work better

this is true..is there a way to ground the connection when you switch?  my only thing i could think of is maybe somthing like a gateway...  you have the main serial going to an A/B switch... a = on , b = off.  B is not hook to nothing (thus a reset)

while on b, you take your second switch with your various systems.
So while switch 1 is selected to B, you can change your systems A/B/C/D....

is this too much?  does it lost connectivity with a second switch involved?  

thank you...  don't ask how i thought of that...

[whiteraven]

yeah I think that is a good solution.  There is probably a way of doing it electronically but it would probably involve soldering a switch that would cut the power to the x-arcade.  I think that if could have it so that only the dials would be visible it would be a really cool feature...otherwise you could just store the switch boxes near the consoles cause you are going to need to turn them on anyway.  

If you haven't got one already you should pick up an electronic av switcher (scart box) so that when press power on the console the tv will switch to the active av channel

[mcdo15]

yeah I think that is a good solution.  There is probably a way of doing it electronically but it would probably involve soldering a switch that would cut the power to the x-arcade.  I think that if could have it so that only the dials would be visible it would be a really cool feature...otherwise you could just store the switch boxes near the consoles cause you are going to need to turn them on anyway.  

If you haven't got one already you should pick up an electronic av switcher (scart box) so that when press power on the console the tv will switch to the active av channel

sounds like another project...

how do do the switch thingy with scart box?
example (radio shack?)

[ThePaul]

Seems like building a new custom CP would be easier than some of the X arcade mods talked about here.

[whiteraven]

Scart Switcher  (This is what I will be using for my consoles)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8111495439&ed=1087675939000&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOT:UK:3

[mcdo15]

Seems like building a new custom CP would be easier than some of the X arcade mods talked about here.

what we want console contorls aslo...
i'm also hooking up
dreamcast
saturn
ps1/2

[mcdo15]

Scart Switcher  (This is what I will be using for my consoles)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8111495439&ed=1087675939000&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOT:UK:3

oh, i don't think i'll be able to use that (im in america if that makes sense)
i never heard of scart....