'Mass' Cab Production Method?

[Santoro]

Ok, well not mass, but I think I can sell 4-5 cabs a year locally. I have a settled on a design and built a prototype.  In order to reduce the time spent building, I would like to do something to reduce the time I spend cutting the shape of the sides.  

I was was considering making a full-sized template out of masonite and then using a router with a bearing to cut around the template to cut the sides for any future cabs.

Would this work? Will it kill my router?  Are there special bits for this type of thing? {edit:I use 3/4" MDF}

Thanks!
Dave

[Ed ONeill]

Yes there are bits made for this.

It should work fine as long as you have a decent hp router.

Btw why dont you use the protype as your template?

Just my 2 cents
Ed

[whammoed]

It would work.  I do something similar to cut out cocktail control panel sides and the tops.  The bit is called a "pattern cutting" bit.  Only problem seems to be that when cutting thick material like 3/4" to 1" the bearing puts a lot of pressure on your template and may start to wear a groove after a few cuts using it.  Not familiar with masonite but I would make sure the template you intend to use on a regular basis is at least 3/8" thick so the bits bearing can travel without hanging off the edge which makes the problem worse.  I typically make a pattern out of 1/4" hardboard and then cut another pattern out of thicker plywood from that for production...when it wears out or gets gouged I can make a new pattern from the original.

[hyiu]

I don't think that will make your life much easier....

router can cut nice.... but if you use a pattern bit to cut...
it'll be slower... (since it needs to take out more wood than... like a circular saw...) a pattern bit will take out like 1/4 in of wood as it pass by.... therefore generating MUCH MORE DUST... and also.... your bit will get burned quicker....

well... if you have one of those computerized cutter that can be fed a software plan and it'll cut by itself... that's of course good....

but if you don't want to invest too much.... I would say get a "routine" set..... like measurements so that you can setup your guide and saw fast for cutting.....

well.... but my wood working skill is very limited... so take it at your own risk....  

[Santoro]

Btw why dont you use the protype as your template?

It is already assembled, Unfortunatley I just though of this recently.  

I suppose I could use a router bit with the bearing on the bottom and lay the new piece on top of the cab side to cut a template.  Based on the feedback above, maybe I will try to find some 1/2 MDF for a template to avoid wear.

[Ed ONeill]

I would like to add to what hiyu said..

My suggestion is to cut out as much material as possible with a circular saw and jig saw...then use your router.

I know this is going to sound bad but most templates are made with plexi/lexan ...the bad [part is it is so expensive, but it would be worth it if you plan on doing multiple machines

Just my 2 cents
Ed

[whammoed]

I would like to add to what hiyu said..

My suggestion is to cut out as much material as possible with a circular saw and jig saw...then use your router.

I know this is going to sound bad but most templates are made with plexi/lexan ...the bad [part is it is so expensive, but it would be worth it if you plan on doing multiple machines

Just my 2 cents
Ed

Good suggestion.   Sometimes I make a rough cut close to where the final cut would be then finish it off with the pattern cutting bit.  Saves some wear and tear thats for sure.

[zaphod]

For my sides, I trace the template onto the sheet and rough cut it within about 1/4" with a circular saw, then a jigsaw to minimize waste.  Then I clamp the sides together (template below) and flushcut it with the router.  If you try to cut it entirely with the router, you'll chew up bits in no time.  Unless you spend the $$$ for a very nice router and hi-grade bits.

My template is 3/4" cabinet-grade ply.  Overkill, yes, but it has held up very well.

[dirt]

as some of you may know my dad has been making cabinets lately ,two of which ended up being sold to byoac members. he uses the template and router method for the side peices and swears by it. i used his pattern and router to make my golden tee machine and it worked bitchin'. after you route it just change the bit and cut the tmolding slot. yes it does make a big mess but it is very quick and when you take the peice off the sawhorse's they are done and ready for assembly. i think it is the easiest way to cut the sides of a cab, every other peice is usually a straight cut so a tablesaw/circularsaw is easier for those.

just my 2cents


dirt

[zaphod]

as some of you may know my dad has been making cabinets lately ,two of which ended up being sold to byoac members. he uses the template and router method for the side peices and swears by it. i used his pattern and router to make my golden tee machine and it worked bitchin'. after you route it just change the bit and cut the tmolding slot. yes it does make a big mess but it is very quick and when you take the peice off the sawhorse's they are done and ready for assembly. i think it is the easiest way to cut the sides of a cab, every other peice is usually a straight cut so a tablesaw/circularsaw is easier for those.

just my 2cents


dirt

Out of curiosity, what kind (make/model) of router are you using and what bit?  When I try to chew through that much material in one pass the dogs howl at the high pitched whine and I can smell the smoke.

[dirt]

Out of curiosity, what kind (make/model) of router are you using and what bit?  When I try to chew through that much material in one pass the dogs howl at the high pitched whine and I can smell the smoke.

i will find out exactly what model the router is tomorrow when i go to visit him. as far as smelling smoke check the bearing they burn up rather fast. they are cheap to replace and take about 30 sec. to change. i went through one when i cut out my gt cabinet. it smelled like smoke and didn't seem to cut very well, as soon as i changed the bearing it worked great again.

dirt

[zaphod]

i will find out exactly what model the router is tomorrow when i go to visit him.

Thanks.  I appreciate it.

[slug54]

I still think the circular saw/Jigsaw method is best.
I clamped the 2 sheets of MDF together and cut both sides at once. It took about 20 minutes to cut both sides. If I did use the router method I would not attempt to cut all 3/4"or 5/8"in one pass! If you do borrow a friends router and bits


Slug54

[mattv]

Your router / flush cut bit idea is a good one - but the Router and the Flush cut bit may not last very long.

Also it will be really, really messy!

[Tilzs]

A flush trim bit is what you want. As for it not lasting very long it'll last long enough. Even if you go though a couple of them you saved a lot of time measureing/cutting.

[dirt]

 zaphod, i ended up not going to my dads on sat. but i am going tomorrow for sure so i will get the info for you. I dropped 4 cylinders in my '53 ford coming back from a early morning car show on sat., so needless to say i spent the day wrenching on my car. i even missed the super auction because of it . and as far as the router bit not lasting long, my dad has cut out 6 cabinets so far on the same bit.


dirt
 

[Wade]

The bit will probably last plenty long enough if you get a good carbide tipped bit.

Wade

[Santoro]

OK, so I took the plunge and tried it.  

I used a flush/trim bit and 3/4" plywood.  I laid my prototype cab (no t-molding yet) on its side and clamped the 4x8 plywood onto it.   I supported the overhanging plywood with a cardboard box.  Just to be sure I didn't damage the prototype I adjusted the bit so that a hair-deep amount of plywood remained.

I routed around the cab and it took about 2 minutes.  It hesitated every now and then when it hit a knot in the plywood, but I managed OK.  I sanded off the thin leftover plywood.

Total effort - 5 minutes.  The result was a beautifuly smooth template.  (My previous circular saw/jigsaw effort took 45 minutes per side by the time I filed, sanded, etc - and the edge quality was inconsistient.)

I see that it took its toll on the bit, I will probably only get a few more sides out of it,  but that is only a $14  expense spread over a few cabs.  

This is unquestionably the way to go if you are building more than two cabs.

Thanks guys!

[spystyle]

Santoro, that's really groovy,

Please post how many panels you are able to cut out before the bit starts smoking.

Thanks,
Craig

[OSCAR]

Santoro - Yes, templates sure are the way to go, aren't they?  I made a Pac side panel template a couple weeks ago and just got around to using it this past weekend.  I made my template from 1/2" particle board because I had a left over piece just the right size.

To prolong the life of the router bit, I first laid the template on the sheet of wood I was going to cut, and then traced around it with a Sharpie marker.  Then I removed the template and rough cut around the traced line keeping within 1/4" or so.  This way the router bit doesn't have to remove so much wood.  I use a 3/4" diameter template bit with a 1/2" shank.  I feel the larger shank bits help reduce bit vibration when cutting through 3/4" thick stock with a single pass.  I've cut many templates out this way and I've never burnt up a router bit yet.  I also lube the bearing on the bit between every other use or so which also keeps them running smooth.  I have a particular template bit that I've used countless times over the past couple years and it still cuts like new, but I also keep the cutter face clean and the bearing lubricated, so that helps I'm sure.


Here is a pic of the template screwed down to the 3/4" side panel:







The below pics are after approx 10 hours of work, which also includes me figuring out how to securely mount a 26" TV tube without a frame into the cab.  Using a router template is a very speedy way to make a professional looking cab without much effort.

http://www.oscarcontrols.com/pacman/cab01.jpg
http://www.oscarcontrols.com/pacman/cab02.jpg

[DrewKaree]

Dunno if you have a router already, but if you are serious about doing this and want it to go easily, get yourself a larger horsepower router.  Something 2 HP or more should do fine, it's a sliding scale after that size as to what you want....more horses = more $$.  I've got a 3 Hp, but mine is work related...you may not want to spend that much after seeing how much they cost.  

Big shops that do repetitive stuff like this use pattern bits for a shaper.  If you think/want this to be a side income and think out your economy of scale, (sell enough cabs to pay for the shaper, that is) then the shaper is TRULY the way to go.  

If this will just be a lucrative hobby, forget I mentioned the shaper.  One look at the price will make you think your token run was cheap by comparison! (but DO invest in a larger HP router and high quality carbide tipped pattern bit....Freud or CMT make dynamite bits that last forever and a day and can be resharpened too)

[ChadTower]

Just as a comment, I'm fairly new to cabs and definitely new to woodworking.

I LOVE THIS STUFF.    

[Santoro]

So the day after I cut my template, my router died after an hour of use.  I probably should have stopped when the router was 'hesitating' as I mentioned above.

It was a ~20 year old Sears Craftsman 2500 RPM model, I can't find a HP rating on it now - but will keep looking.

I can't go back now though because it was soooooo easy. I will be picking up a really powerful router next.

Don't try this with a cheapie router!!!!!

[jcoleman]

Kelsey,

My question is...how did you make the template in the first place?  Did you make it by using an original cabinet as a template?  If not, how'd you get the curves so smooth?  I'd like to eventually reproduce a PGA Golf cabinet (kind of a Golden Tee ripoff) and there is a beautiful curve on it.  Doubt I'll be able to do that with a jigsaw.

Coleman

[OSCAR]

Kelsey,

My question is...how did you make the template in the first place?  Did you make it by using an original cabinet as a template?  If not, how'd you get the curves so smooth?  I'd like to eventually reproduce a PGA Golf cabinet (kind of a Golden Tee ripoff) and there is a beautiful curve on it.  Doubt I'll be able to do that with a jigsaw.

Coleman

I actually did use a jigsaw to get the shape very close.  Then I spent some time with a belt sander to make it as perfect as I could.  I put some work into getting a very nice shape on the template, but keeping in mind that I would only have to do it once that way.

More details of how I made the template and the finished project are in this thread:
http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=21723

[spystyle]

Coleman,

On the topic of capturing curves :

I once carried a 4X8 sheet of 1/4" hardboard into an arcade right before closing, and had my brother hold it up against a Ms Pac-Man cab while I traced it with a marker.

Instant template !

Dig it?
Craig

[DrewKaree]

It was a ~20 year old Sears Craftsman 2500 RPM model, I can't find a HP rating on it now - but will keep looking.

I can't go back now though because it was soooooo easy. I will be picking up a really powerful router next.

Don't try this with a cheapie router!!!!!

Some recommendations for you:

Milwaukee - EXCELLENT value for a higher HP router, if you can find them in your area...some places they aren't easy to find, but me living right where their headquarters are....simple as can be

Porter-Cable - A touch more expensive than Milwaukee routers, but if you've ever used one, you'd be hard pressed to find anything wrong with their router....far and away a favorite among remodelers and carpenters in my area.  If I had the $$, I'd have purchased one because it had a longer warranty and a few other factors, but needed a "gotta buy it RIGHT NOW" router and didn't have the cash on hand at that moment.

Bosch - decent for the money, but don't get it unless money is an issue, you'll like one of the other two I recommend better.  It'll be cheaper than the Milwauke, but it'll feel "chintzy" if you know what I mean.  

DeWalt might be an option if you can find one cheap enough, but remember that it's just a glorified Black & Decker product.  The price often doesn't justify the performance, except in certain tools like saws or hammer drills.