Joystick Mounting -- flush mounted carriage bolts?

[sofakng]

I'm not sure how to mount my joysticks.  I'm going to either either Happ's Super Joysticks or Perfect 360's (more likely) as well as one T-Stick Plus.

Now, I'm using 5/8" MDF and will be using plexiglass (or lexan) to cover the control panel.  So, everything on top of the control panel must be completely flush (espicially since I also want artwork).

So, I'd like to mount these joysticks on the bottom of the control panel, but I was told I still needed carriage bolts to secure the joystick in place.

I was told I needed "flush mounted carriage bolts" (drilled from the top of the control panel), so that the control panel itself would be completely flush.

Is this what I would need?

I've been told that Bob Robert's has them, and I've contacted him, but are there alternatives for ordering this a bit quicker?

[Jam161]

bolts... you can get them at a hardware store

the bolt will have like a square piece underneath the head so it doesnt just spin, you cut a whole in the plex or lexan and put it in (a hole only big enough for the sqaure piece) and it should be good... the top of the bolt head is just a little smooth curve kinda like a ( on its side

Im not an expert though but im sure you dont need to order bolts on the internet

[Bumblebounces]

What you're probably looking for is called an elevator bolt.  It's like a carriage bolt (with the domed head and the square at the base of the screw) but it has a flat head.  The head is pretty thin so it should flush up pretty good but it won't be completely level with the surface of the wood unless you countersink a little.  Still, it's better than the gouge you'd have to dig to hide the head of a carriage bolt.

Hope this helps

Bumble

[FractalWalk]

Use regular machine thread bolts and T-nuts. The T-nuts have a flat top and can be recessed flush with the panel. Then the bolts thread in from underneath.

[NoOne=NBA=]

T-Nuts are definitely the way to go if you want to use bolts.
I just screwed mine on from the bottom using #10x3/4" wood screws though.

Oscar has a nice how-to about reworking one of his CP's (I think it was the multi-williams) that shows exactly how to install the T-Nuts, and also gives a tutorial on recessing your dustwashers below the overlay.

[sofakng]

Ok, do I *have* to use a screw from the top of the control panel or could I mount it from the bottom completely?

I'm guessing that since the wood is only 5/8" thick, that I am going to need to mount screws from the top...

Also, can I find those screws that everybody is talking about at a retail store such as Home Depot or Lowe's?

[rsoandrew]

Use regular machine thread bolts and T-nuts. The T-nuts have a flat top and can be recessed flush with the panel. Then the bolts thread in from underneath.

This is definately the way to go.  The problem with carraige bolts on wood is that they would eventually slip.

Ok, do I *have* to use a screw from the top of the control panel or could I mount it from the bottom completely?

You install the bolts from the bottom just like you would a regular bolt. The T-nut goes on the other side just like a regular nut. It's very thin with teeth sticking out that bite into the wood preventing it from turning. It sort of looks like a threaded washer with teeth.

I'm guessing that since the wood is only 5/8" thick, that I am going to need to mount screws from the top...

Nope, check out T-nuts.

Also, can I find those screws that everybody is talking about at a retail store such as Home Depot or Lowe's?

You can get them at either place. The problem is that many of the employees don't know what they're doing and definately don't know terminology. They would be located in the same small containers you find the metric screws, nylon screws and other hardware. Typically in bright yellow boxes with the brand Servalite. If you're worried at all, go to a real hardware store, and ask them for help. These guys typically know what they're doing.

[sofakng]

Ok, so then the bolt (which will be on the top side of the control panel) will be visible, but will be flush?

Any pictures of these (the bolts and the T-nuts) so when I go to a store I'll know what they look like?

[Witchboard]

No, the bolt will be threaded from the bottom, through your joystick into the tee nut that is mounted on the top of your CP.

[Santoro]

Probably hard tp picture, Oscar's great site is here:

http://www.oscarcontrols.com/sinistar/index.shtml

It has a few good photos to clarify.  Yes, with t-nuts the bolts will be flush.

[NoOne=NBA=]

Sorry, I meant to include that link in my original post, but my wife distracted me.

[vputz]

I actually wound up just screwing into the particleboard from the bottom, and it seems to be working just fine.  If I could do it over, I would have used T-nuts, but unfortunately I was hasty and glued the laminate on before understanding how T-nuts worked (lol).

-->VPutz

[sofakng]

Ooohhh, ok.. I think I can understand now...

So, the NUT gets recessed into the top of the control panel, and then the bolt gets threaded through the bottom, into the t-nut on the top.

Is there a certain size t-nut I should be using?  What kind of bolt would I need?

(btw, those pictures from Oscar are showing the TOP of the control panel, right?)

[vputz]

Sofakng--

Yes, that bit about "OH, the T-nuts go in the TOP of the CP if you are bolting from the bottom!" is the vital bit of information my brain hadn't absorbed before laminating the top of my CP (all the while wondering "gee, I don't know, won't the T-nuts just pull out?"--lol).

So yes, you would drill holes all the way through, hammer the T-nuts into the TOP of the CP board, then laminate, whatever.  You now have holes from the bottom that end in these nice metal T-nuts that won't pull through.

As for sizes, it doesn't much matter as long as the bolt heads will hold in your joysticks, I wouldn't think.

-->VPutz

[Nannuu]

Use #10 t-nuts and 10-24 bolts 3/4" long.  If I remember right the correct bit to recess the t-nut is a 3/4" forstener bit.  I recommend that you recess with the forstener bit first then drill through there rest of the panel, that way the tip of the forstener bit will mark the recess to line up the small drill bit.  To assure that it is recessed far enough drill some then place the t-nut upside down in the recess to check if it is flush.  You can drill further if you like but i prefer flush myself.  Once you have the small hole drilled you can hammer the t-nut in.  If you made it flush and then hammer the nut in you will notice that it is not flush, don't worry about it, once you tighten the bolt underneath it will suck it down flush again.  I am anal about this because I glue my graphics down and if it isn't flush it typically will suck into the recess.

Hope this helps.

[sofakng]

Are those the correct sizes even for a 5/8" MDF board?  (and as mentioned I'll be using 1/8" plexiglass to cover it)

[FractalWalk]

The T-nuts go under the plexiglass, so that is irrelevant to the length of the bolts.

You want the screw to stop short of poking out the T-nut hole, so 5/8" plus the width of the joystick base (1/4" ??)  is the maximum length you can want.  I think 3/4" would work just fine.

But if you are unsure just take your joystick and a small drilled piece of MDF to the hardware store. Put it together right there and you decide the proper length.



In the attached image, the T-nuts are the green images and the bolts are the purple. The Plexigalss is the blue layer that sits on top of the T-nuts.

[RayB]

Have you all considered durability and joystick "abuse"?    It's nice to mount it so you don't see carriage bolt heads on top, but there's a reason "real" arcade cabs have used that choice of mounting...

[NoOne=NBA=]

Yes, simplicity.

It's alot easier to drill 4 holes than to countersink, etc... for the T-nuts.

[sofakng]

Can anybody verify the 3/4" forstner bit needed to drill the recessesd holes?  Can I use anything else, or should I use that?

Also, if I understand this now, I will drill a recessed hole (for the t-nut) and then another hole in the middle of that hole for the bolt... right?

[jcoleman]

sofakng - I highly recommenr that you experiment on a piece of scrap wood.  You will not only get some practice but you might figure out a better way to do what you want.  The tee-nut solution is pretty good, though; I doubt there is a better solution for this problem.  I've used it myself.  Anyway, you still get some practice and can make sure you get everything right before you mess up the nice piece of wood you are probably using for the CP.

Coleman

[FractalWalk]

Can anybody verify the 3/4" forstner bit needed to drill the recessesd holes?  Can I use anything else, or should I use that?

Also, if I understand this now, I will drill a recessed hole (for the t-nut) and then another hole in the middle of that hole for the bolt... right?

Yes drill a hole for the T-nut and screw. Then you need to counter-sink the T-nut slightly, which is about 3/4" in diameter. However, since the wood will be covered by plexi, it doesn't really need to be pretty or accurate.  You can use a forstner bit, a standard drill bit, a spade bit, a router, a chisel, your fingernails etc.

Definitely practice. Much of this stuff becomes self-evident once you have it in your hands.

[vputz]

Have you all considered durability and joystick "abuse"?

O yes.  But remember also that arcades are design for more traffic than a homebuilt mame cab (despite what some of us may think!), and for a wide spectrum of abusers.  I was very concerned at first about using just screws in particleboard to hold in my joysticks, but after playing for quite a while, I realized that I actually don't put that much stress on the stick; go figure.

-->VPutz

[NoOne=NBA=]

You want to drill the countersink part of the hole first, THEN do the through hole.
If you drill all the way through first, then you won't have a good, steady center to do the countersink.

It's not a big deal because it will all be covered, but it's definitely easier to do them in that order.

[FractalWalk]

You want to drill the countersink part of the hole first, THEN do the through hole.

Good catch. If you are drilling by hand, that's important. I usually use a drill press or a router and so it doesn't matter which I do first.

[sofakng]

Ok, I'm still a little confused, but I'll figure it out...

Do I drill 3 holes?

1) Drill counterstink hole
What bit do I use?

2) Use 3/4" Forstner bit to drill hole
Do I drill a hole all the way through the board?

3) Drill center hole to be used for bolt to go through

Am I understanding everything correctly?

What router and drill bits do I need?

I'm sorry that this is so confusing for me... I'm very new to woodworking.

[FractalWalk]

Ok, I'm still a little confused, but I'll figure it out...

Do I drill 3 holes?

1) Drill counterstink hole
What bit do I use?

2) Use 3/4" Forstner bit to drill hole
Do I drill a hole all the way through the board?

3) Drill center hole to be used for bolt to go through

Am I understanding everything correctly?

What router and drill bits do I need?

I'm sorry that this is so confusing for me... I'm very new to woodworking.

No, no. you're making this too complex. There is only one hole all the way through the wood  (I think 1/4"), which is used to slip the bolt in from the bottom and the T-nut from the top.

Then if you want to recess the T-nut, which is about 3/4 in diamter, you need to shave off a little bit of the wood where the T-nut sits.  You're not making a hole just a slight recess. This can be done with just about any tool that drills a 3/4" hole (spade, forstner, standard drill bit) or you can use a router or even a chisel.

It's easiest to make the recess first and then drill the hole second. That's it.  Refer to the image I posted earlier in the link for a visual.

[sofakng]

Ok, I think I understand now...

One very last question, I promise...

The joystick base (which goes below the control panel of course), do I recess the entire thing into the wood?  or does the joystick mounting area just rest on the wood itself?

Only reason I'm asking is because I thought I saw people routing out areas on the bottom of the control panel making a nice area for the joystick base to sit in...

[Aceldamor]

Routing the bottom for the joystick base makes more stick depth on the "top" of the panel. otherwise you'll have little stubby joysticks on your cp...

[sofakng]

So, is it typical to route out an area for the entire joystick base?

What kind of router bit would I need for that?

I'm going to be using Perfect 360's and my wood is 5/8" MDF.  The joystick base is about 1/2 the size of the wood...

[FractalWalk]

What kind of router bit would I need for that?

Recessing the joystick base is personal preference of joystick height: many people do it, many do not. Mount your sticks and if they seem to short to you, then route out some of the MDF.  I've heard of people leaving only 1/8" of MDF but tham seems pretty thin to me.  Personally, I wouldn't leave less than 1/4".

If you a want to use a router, a straight bit will work. But again as no one will see this, a hammer and chisel will also do a fine job.

[Donger]

Fractal- that picture you provided was very helpful.  Thanks!  (This thread should be added to the FAQ)

[sofakng]

Use #10 t-nuts and 10-24 bolts 3/4" long.

Ok, Size #10 T-Nuts, and "10-24 bolts"

Is "10-24" the size of the bolts?  (eg. I will go into the store asking for "10 dash 24 bolts"  I'm assuming I should get various lengths to see which one fits the best since I'm not sure how far I will recess the joystick into the wood panel.



Thanks!

[Nannuu]

Yep, just say 10-24 (ten twenty four) and they will know what you want.  10 corresponds to the diameter and 24 means 24 threads per inch.  It is an extremely common bolt.  And you can also add washers if they are a little long.