My Control Panel checklist - newbie

[megashock5]

OK, this is what I think I'm going to get. If anyone has any opinions or sees anything I'm missing please let me know. I haven't ordered anything yet!

- 2 OmniStick Prodigy sticks (or possibly Ultimarc T-Stik Plus's)
- 6 buttons per stick
- 1 and 2 player start buttons
- 1 Pause button
- 2 hidden buttons (top of cab maybe) to control volume
- possibly 1 trackball and 1 spinner (depending on cost, difficulty to implement)
- 1 KeyWhiz max (if I get the Prodigy sticks, probably iPac if I get T-Stiks, to cut down on shipping)

How does this sound?

[brained]

OK, this is what I think I'm going to get. If anyone has any opinions or sees anything I'm missing please let me know. I haven't ordered anything yet!

- 2 OmniStick Prodigy sticks (or possibly Ultimarc T-Stik Plus's)
- 6 buttons per stick
- 1 and 2 player start buttons
- 1 Pause button
- 2 hidden buttons (top of cab maybe) to control volume
- possibly 1 trackball and 1 spinner (depending on cost, difficulty to implement)
- 1 KeyWhiz max (if I get the Prodigy sticks, probably iPac if I get T-Stiks, to cut down on shipping)

How does this sound?

I think you need a quit button, but u can use the shift function on the enconders.
Still I like quit buttons

[REBIRTH]

same here, I think a quit ("escape") button is worth the extra couple of bucks and time installing it.  

I also have buttons for "tab" (get into the mame menu), "enter" (while in the mame menu), plus I have two buttons that work with my front end (emulaxian) to filter and search through the games list.

[megashock5]

same here, I think a quit ("escape") button is worth the extra couple of bucks and time installing it.  

I also have buttons for "tab" (get into the mame menu), "enter" (while in the mame menu), plus I have two buttons that work with my front end (emulaxian) to filter and search through the games list.

Hmm, I don't think I understand. You'll have to excuse me, I'm just getting started and haven't actually ever used a front end yet. I envisioned them coming up when I turned the machine on and presenting me with a list of games to choose from - is there more to it than that?

Thanks for the Quit button suggestion, guys. I'll definitely add that to my list. Also, what would I need for a trackball and/or spinner? Will the KeyWhiz or iPac run those, or would I need an OptiPac in addition/instead?

Sorry, I know it's probably annoying to deal with all these  newbie questions. It's going to be especially tough for me since, while I know Macs inside and out, my PC knowledge is very small (but I've been told they're better for emulation.)

thanks again

[REBIRTH]

No problem with the questions, that is what these boards are for...

1) The front ends do present you with a list of games to play (they are all different, some allow you to categorize games into sets which you can choose and then move around in the game lists).  Anyway, once you start up a game MAME takes over.  When in MAME you then can use the MAME keys to do things - like go into the MAME menu to change the button assignments in a game if you need to, or "Pause" a game.  You plan on having a pause button - it isn't the front end that is pausing the game, it is MAME pausing it.  The front end is just that - a front end to MAME.  In it's simplest form it just presents you with all the games, you choose a game, and from there on out your are in MAME proper.  When looking at front ends check out Emulaxian (everyone has their favorite, that one is mine) http://3darcade.mameworld.net

2)  trackball/Spinner - you would need an OptiPac.  I don't know much about the KeyWhiz so for all I know that can handle the spinner/trackballs.  But for Ultimarc products, for joysticks/buttons you get the I-Pac and for a spinner/trackball you get the OptiPac (I have both).  

[NoOne=NBA=]

If you order a spinner from Oscar, a cheaper solution to the Opti-pac would be to buy Oscar's USB Mouse Hack.

I'm using that on my spinner, as well as my trackball, with great results.

I personally have alot of the functions (quit/open/etc...) mapped to my wireless mouse, but do have Tab and Enter mapped to my 1P & 2P buttons.

[Gameboy.au]

Instead of a quit button, encoders such as the IPACs have shift keys instead.

If your sick of a game, pressing and holding the Player 1 button and then hitting Player 2 acts as an escape key.

If you don't like that combination, you can reprogram it too with the software (or freely downloaded from the Ultimarc website)  

[megashock5]

Hmm. Interesting.

Can you use a mouse hack to run both a trackball and a spinner? If so, can you still have a mouse to use for windows stuff (or I guess you could use the trackball, maybe one of the buttons should be mapped to the mouse click?)

Also, I'm sure I saw this on an example somewhere, but has anyone used buttons to control the volume? Is it very hard to wire them that way? Just don't want to have to exit to windows to change the volume.

thanks!

[jcoleman]

There is a volume control in MAME, and one of the shift function on the IPAC supports those settings (there are a number you can easily change in MAME).  Also, aren't you planning to wire a volume control knob in your cab?  

Coleman

[brained]

If you don't want an optipac, you can allways hack a MOUSE. If you look in the site, you can find several mouse hacks, for trackballs and spinners.

Most people go with the optipac solution. I think the mini-pac handles joysticks, buttons and trackballs.... i'm not sure.

I think for volume control you should go with MAFIAS volume hack. It's really cheap, and knobs are cool BTW. Look for it here too

[megashock5]

To tell you the truth, I just assumed that a volume knob would be much harder to do than the buttons. Again, I come from the Mac world, and I have buttons on my keyboard for up and down volume. I figured that's how computers do volume, buttons not knobs.

I will now go look for this hack you mentioned.

Thanks again, guys. This board is the best.

[missioncontrol]

alot of people also recomend a reset button (F3) and If your not using a coin door you'll need a button to insert coins...

[unclet]

My recommendations are as follows:

- player1 coin insert button
- player2 coin insert button
- F3 reset button
- ENTER button
- TAB button (Mame configuration)

You mentioned you were adding a trackball so if you want to use it like a mouse (which I recommend) then I would add the following:

- left mouse click button
- right mouse click button


Have you heard of "Visual Pinball"?  If not, then you might want to read up on it and you might want to add the following as well:

- left pinball flipper button
- right pinball flipper button
- plunger button (not really needed but I added one for fun)



As for explaining what a front-end is ....... imagine wanting to play PacMan in Mame without the use of a frontend.   You would have to open a command prompt and type something like the following:

       mame -pacman

if you then wanted to specify a particular sound card you are using you might need to add the following:

       mame -pacman -soundblaster=on

if you wanted other stuff it could quickly get out of hand and confusing:

       mame -pacman -soundblaster=on -resolution 1024x800  -scanlines -alwayssynced -monitor ntsc  -norotate -frameskip 3 -flicker 4.32

you get the idea.......

Anyway.... a frontend manages all the "command" options via a nice GUI interface (instead of having the person enter them manually or even having the person have to remember the exact syntax of all the options) and then starts the emulator based on the chosen options.   Once the emulator is started then the front-end is not doing anything and the emulator (Mame) is now in control.

[NoOne=NBA=]

Can you use a mouse hack to run both a trackball and a spinner? If so, can you still have a mouse to use for windows stuff (or I guess you could use the trackball, maybe one of the buttons should be mapped to the mouse click?)

You can run both a trackball and spinner off the same mouse hack.
Oscar has a tutorial on how to hook up BOTH to the same mouse hack--HERE.

I actually have mine wired with a quick disconnect, so that I can swap back and forth between the two on my modular CP.

NOTE: If you wire the mouse hack to a quick disconnect like this, Oscar says to be sure you do the following:

CONNECTING
1) With the USB cable DISCONNECTED from the computer, attach your quick disconnect cable.
2) Connect the USB cable to the computer.

DISCONNECTING
1) DISCONNECT the USB cable first.
2) Disconnect the quick-disconnect.

Failure to do them in this order may fry your trackball/spinner, or the USB connection on your computer.

[megashock5]

UncleT - I owe you, man. I had totally forgotten about pinball. I *definitely* want those functions.

Again, about the mouse hack - do you need to hack two mice to run both a trackball and a spinner, or can they share? Also, how does this effect having a regular mouse to use as well?

OK, here is my updated list. See if this is shaping up any better:

2 4/8way switchable sticks
6 action buttons per stick
Player 1 and Player 2 start buttons
Player 1 and Player 2 coin insert buttons
Pause button
Quit button
Tab button
Reset button
Volume knob (still can't find Mafias hack...)
Trackball (if I can figure out the mouse hack)
Spinner (if I can figure out the mouse hack)
Right & Left mouse buttons
Pinball buttons  - R & L flippers plus plunger button

How's that?

[jyoung7]

Just as a question to those who know...can't MAME map the Player 1 Start and Player 2 Start to also act as coin buttons once a game is being played.  Do you actually need two seperate buttons for coin inserts?

[unclet]

No problem....

Depending on how much you like Pinball ....... you might want to add a few more buttons:

- Nudging table from the left
- Nudging table from the right
- Nudging table from the front

Note: Place the front nudge button in the front so your hip can activate it when you need to bumb the table.  The left/right nudge buttons can be on the sides next too the left/right flipper buttons.

[Tiger-Heli]

Just as a question to those who know...can't MAME map the Player 1 Start and Player 2 Start to also act as coin buttons once a game is being played.  Do you actually need two seperate buttons for coin inserts?

Sortof - see this thread - http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=18725;start=msg149174#msg149174

[DaveJ-UK]

I have 4 buttons under my CP just out of sight - PC power, credit, pause and a spare which I will probably wire to tab when I have some time.

As for volume control, my cab came with stereo speakers built in (Sega decathalon cab) so I just ripped the amp out some cheap pc speakers and wired the 12V from the power supply to it along with the speakers and it works great. the cab has a volume knob inside the coin door which I intend to wire to the amp.

I think a volume knob would be far better than having two buttons...

[megashock5]

Cool, I'll have to figure out where these extra function buttons will go on the cab.

As far as the volume knob - can anyone point me to Mafias volume hack that was mentioned earlier in this thread? I tried searching for it and came up with nothing  

[Witchboard]

Can you use a mouse hack to run both a trackball and a spinner? If so, can you still have a mouse to use for windows stuff (or I guess you could use the trackball, maybe one of the buttons should be mapped to the mouse click?)

You can run both a trackball and spinner off the same mouse hack.
Oscar has a tutorial on how to hook up BOTH to the same mouse hack--HERE.

I actually have mine wired with a quick disconnect, so that I can swap back and forth between the two on my modular CP.

NOTE: If you wire the mouse hack to a quick disconnect like this, Oscar says to be sure you do the following:

CONNECTING
1) With the USB cable DISCONNECTED from the computer, attach your quick disconnect cable.
2) Connect the USB cable to the computer.

DISCONNECTING
1) DISCONNECT the USB cable first.
2) Disconnect the quick-disconnect.

Failure to do them in this order may fry your trackball/spinner, or the USB connection on your computer.

I had planned to make my Trackball and Spinner like this, but I'm using a minipac.  Does the same apply?  Would I have to unplug the minipac from USB then switch, then plug back in?  I'm glad you mentioned this before I ended up toasting something.

[Tiger-Heli]

I had planned to make my Trackball and Spinner like this, but I'm using a minipac.  Does the same apply?  Would I have to unplug the minipac from USB then switch, then plug back in?  I'm glad you mentioned this before I ended up toasting something.

Can't say for sure, but I would assume so.

[vputz]

I had planned to make my Trackball and Spinner like this, but I'm using a minipac

Near as I recall, the minipac does automatic switching, right?  (I have one, but don't have the spinner for it yet).  So I'm not sure what you're getting at--I think they're both portrayed as the same device, so if you move the mouse, you get XY mouse movement; if you spin the spinner, you get X movement only.

-->VPutz

[Tiger-Heli]

I had planned to make my Trackball and Spinner like this, but I'm using a minipac

Near as I recall, the minipac does automatic switching, right?  (I have one, but don't have the spinner for it yet).  So I'm not sure what you're getting at--I think they're both portrayed as the same device, so if you move the mouse, you get XY mouse movement; if you spin the spinner, you get X movement only.

-->VPutz

The opti-pac does automatic switching, I'm not sure if the mini-pac does or not.

And I think we are talking about wiring a trackball and spinner to molex or DB connectors so they can be swapped in and out, at least I was talking about that.

[Witchboard]

I had planned to make my Trackball and Spinner like this, but I'm using a minipac

Near as I recall, the minipac does automatic switching, right?  (I have one, but don't have the spinner for it yet).  So I'm not sure what you're getting at--I think they're both portrayed as the same device, so if you move the mouse, you get XY mouse movement; if you spin the spinner, you get X movement only.

-->VPutz

The opti-pac does automatic switching, I'm not sure if the mini-pac does or not.

And I think we are talking about wiring a trackball and spinner to molex or DB connectors so they can be swapped in and out, at least I was talking about that.

Correct.  Auto-switching isn't really an issue here since they won't be connected at the same time.  I've emailed Andy for clarification.  I'll let everybody know when he replies.  Sorry for hijacking thread.  

[megashock5]

  Don't worry about jacking the thread - this is good information.

My personal plan is to have a spinner and trackball that are always connected, so I can skip over a lot of what was just discussed, correct?

At least I think from what someone posted, I should be able to connect both at once using a mouse hack (assuming I figure out how to do that). I bought the Project Arcade book, but haven't made it through the whole thing yet. Anyone know if there's mouse hack instructions in there? I know I bookmarked a page someone mentioned here, but it would be great if it were in the book with all the other info.

[Witchboard]

Yeah, you won't have to worry about it.  The auto-switching we are talking about is a feature that keeps the trackball and spinner from working at the same time.  With a mouse hack, both the trackball and spinner will be "live" at the same time.  Meaning if you're playing a trackball game and you accidentally nudge the spinner it will register in your game.

I haven't seen the book yet, but there are tons of mouse hack how to's on the main page and in the forums.

[Tiger-Heli]

My personal plan is to have a spinner and trackball that are always connected, so I can skip over a lot of what was just discussed, correct?

Correct - you could also skip over it if your spinner was permanently connected to the mouse hack, even if you plugged and unplugged the mouse hack from the PC.

At least I think from what someone posted, I should be able to connect both at once using a mouse hack (assuming I figure out how to do that).

Correct, either using dual USB mouse hacks (preferably with different brand mice) or by using a DPDT switch as shown in the link to OSCAR's page above.

Anyone know if there's mouse hack instructions in there?

Dunno, probably, but OSCAR sells them pre-hacked for $9.00 or with buttons and $12.50.  For the effort involved, I would just buy from him unless you a) really enjoy soldering stuff, b) need the satisfaction of doing stuff yourself, or c) are REALLY cheap.

Also, back on-topic    I understand OSCAR's comments, but if I hook the trackball and spinner up to the interface as shown with a DPDT swithch, am I not in effect briefly disconnecting one device and connecting the other without disconnecting the USB cable, for the brief time that the switch is between positions.  I suspect this whole thing is similar to hot-swapping PS/2 mice and keyboards, where in theory you could damage something, but I've never heard of it actually happening.

[Tiger-Heli]

Sortof what Witchboard said:

Yeah, you won't have to worry about it.  The auto-switching we are talking about is a feature that keeps the trackball and spinner from working at the same time.

. . . when using an Opti-Pac with both trackball and spinner connected to the same port on the board.

With a mouse hack, both the trackball and spinner will be "live" at the same time.  Meaning if you're playing a trackball game and you accidentally nudge the spinner it will register in your game.

Well, almost -

With two USB mouse (mice???) hacks connected to individual spinners and trackballs, they will both be live at the same time, but you can use NoNAME MAME or MAME Analog plus to set which one is controlled in a particular game.  (But it's better to not use the same brand of mouse or they will swap positions on reboot.).

With a single mouse hack and both a trackball and spinner, I think you HAVE to use the DPDT switch as OSCAR shows, or the mouse circuitry will become confused and not work correctly.

[Witchboard]

Ah, thanks for the clarification Tiger-Heli.  

Actually, I just went to Oscars site and I'm having trouble finding the quote that NoOne referenced.  I'm probably just blind, but Andy replied with "This would be no problem.  I can't envisage how this could cause damage even with a mouse hack."

[Tiger-Heli]

Actually, I just went to Oscars site and I'm having trouble finding the quote that NoOne referenced.

Well, if NoOne referenced it, how could you even hear about it???

Excuse my lame attempt at humor.

I don't remember seeing it either.  It could have been just E-mail traffic between OSCAR and NoOne.

I'm probably just blind, but Andy replied with "This would be no problem.  I can't envisage how this could cause damage even with a mouse hack."

The only thing I can see is the same thing as a PS/2 device - some of those pins between the mouse hack and the device carry voltage, so misconnecting them could be bad, but I think it would not happen often.