Swappable Control panels: How to connect?

[JAZ]

I've arranged for the following swappable control panels to be wired up for my Jaleco Pony sit-down cab:

Each panel would have the following:
1 player start button
2 player start button
1 player coin button
2 player coin button

In addition:
Street Fighter panel:
2 x 8-way ball-top joysticks
6 buttons per player

Pacman panel:
1 x 4 way ball-top joystick
5 buttons

Robotron Panel:
4 x 8-way bat-handle joysticks (2 per player)
no buttons

Ikari Warriors Panel:
2 x SNK rotary joysticks
3 buttons per player

The guy who is making the panels has said he will "wire up to 12 way plugs so you can plug and play".

Once I have these panels, what is my best way of connecting them? The cabinet is JAMMA so I use a J-Pac. Do I just need an iPac2 for the sticks and buttons above the JAMMA standard?

Thanks for the help (I've searched the board extensively and Ultimarcs website but I'm now suffering from information overload..)

[Lilwolf]

I used 2 25pin serial cables ends.  This was because I had a ton laying around.

works pretty well.

I'm considering building a system to make connecting easier... but I don't believe I will have the time / money for a long long while...  I was hoping to get something like car doors that would work with standard parts on the control panels.

most over the shelf solutions are expensive since you have to buy the male and female side of the plugs for each control panel.. even though you don't really use them.

I guess on the two cables... I could have had one male and one female on the cabinet... and on each control panel would be the same.  At that way I wouldn't have wasted so much.

[krick]

I was going to go with DB25 connectors (like serial cables) but the connectors are really tiny and soldering on them is a b*tch.

I changed my mind and decided to go with .093 Molex connectors from Bob Roberts instead.  You can easily crimp your wires to the pins and they're much easy to change in the future than soldered D25 connectors.

This is what a 15 pin connector looks like...

[jcoleman]

I went with Molex connectors for mine, but if I had it to do over (and in time, I will), I'd go with RJ-45 for sure.  First of all, you can just buy Ethernet cables and chop them in half.  Radio Shack has modular wall panels that make it super easy to connect one cable to another.  Also, Molexes are a pain in the ass to wire.

Now that I've re-read your posting, I see that's not really what you're asking.    Ah well, I'll leave that response and write another one that's on topic...

I would scrap the JAMMA harness altogether (save it though!).  Since some of your panels are over and above the JAMMA standard, you'll need more connections...the IPAC2 can handle them all (so can the VE or MiniPAC, FYI) and you can easily wire connectors to match those that your builder uses on the panels.

Hope that was clear!  

Coleman

[Bumblebounces]

When I was planning my cab (it took so long, I had plenty of time to change my mind a few times), I had originally planned to make swappable panels.  I eventually went the route of a Franken panel to prevent the need for it as I knew I would never swap the panels.  I know I am so lazy that I would just use whatever panel was there and play only games it would work with.  Terrible, I know, but no one knows me better than I do.

Oh, back on topic.  Anyway, what I was going to do was make the panels something that slides into place in slots and then gets locked into place with a pin or a cam lock or something like that.  Then, the wires would all be soldered to an edge connector similar to a JAMMA board.  The cab would have a mating female edge connector for all the inputs to the IPAC.  I even had an idea to use some of the extra pins on the finger board to make contact with some LED's mounted in the control panel that would confirm to me that the edge connector had seated in place and it was safe for me to lock it down.  Like I said, I abandoned the idea as I knew I would probably never actually use it.  Others have said, "I wouldn't want friends changing panels."  Then there's the "what do you do with the extra panels that are not in use?"  Some guys have gotten very creative with rotating designs that make the panels captive and this look great and are engineering marvels, but they wern't for me.  I know my idea could work well.  I always thought it was a good idea.  I abandoned the idea before I went looking for the finger boards and connectors so I don't have any sources for that but I am sure you could get these things from an arcade supply house.

Bumble

[telengard]

I've arranged for the following swappable control panels to be wired up for my Jaleco Pony sit-down cab:

Each panel would have the following:
1 player start button
2 player start button
1 player coin button
2 player coin button

In addition:
Street Fighter panel:
2 x 8-way ball-top joysticks
6 buttons per player

Pacman panel:
1 x 4 way ball-top joystick
5 buttons

Robotron Panel:
4 x 8-way bat-handle joysticks (2 per player)
no buttons

Ikari Warriors Panel:
2 x SNK rotary joysticks
3 buttons per player

The guy who is making the panels has said he will "wire up to 12 way plugs so you can plug and play".

Once I have these panels, what is my best way of connecting them? The cabinet is JAMMA so I use a J-Pac. Do I just need an iPac2 for the sticks and buttons above the JAMMA standard?

Thanks for the help (I've searched the board extensively and Ultimarcs website but I'm now suffering from information overload..)

I had used Molex connectors but grew tired of needing 3 hands to put in controls.  1 to hold the control and two to connect the Molex connectors.  Someone had demonstrated not too long ago the use of cat5 cables (ethernet) for plugging in.  I'm in the process right now of switching to that scheme.  I bought pass thru keystone jacks and a patch panel.  This will allow very easy means to plug in the controls.  The only thing I'm worried about are some of the controls that need power, like the spinner/trackball, etc.

I have only used IPACs so that's all I can speak for.  I know nothing about Jamma stuff.

[SirPoonga]

I was going to go with DB25 connectors (like serial cables) but the connectors are really tiny and soldering on them is a b*tch.

That's why you get the crimp ones.

BTW, something to think about.  Common butytons, like coin and start, can you put those on the cabinet on not the control panel (take a peek at my cabinet).

[Tiger-Heli]

I was going to go with DB25 connectors (like serial cables) but the connectors are really tiny and soldering on them is a b*tch.

That's why you get the crimp ones.

And/or, you buy DB25 cables, lop it in half, and run the wires to terminal strips.

[Tiger-Heli]

I know I am so lazy that I would just use whatever panel was there and play only games it would work with.  Terrible, I know, but no one knows me better than I do.

I'm the same way.  Isn't it amazing how many people in this hobby will spend months designing the perfect set of CP's, interface methods, layouts, etc. and then are too lazy to spend 30 seconds to swap a panel around.

I do the same thing over and over - I spend hours coming up with tweaks so the PC boots 5 seconds faster . . . go figure!

[REBIRTH]

I know I am so lazy that I would just use whatever panel was there and play only games it would work with.  Terrible, I know, but no one knows me better than I do.

I'm the same way.  Isn't it amazing how many people in this hobby will spend months designing the perfect set of CP's, interface methods, layouts, etc. and then are too lazy to spend 30 seconds to swap a panel around.

I do the same thing over and over - I spend hours coming up with tweaks so the PC boots 5 seconds faster . . . go figure!

I figured the same thing for myself, plus was afraid the panels that were not currently in use would be "played with" by my kids - "hey, can my kiddie scissors cut through these cool wires?".  So I decide to rotate 3 always attached control panels and take the lazyness and fear out of it.

Back to the topic at hand, won't each panel need 2 or 3 12-way connectors?   Can't you get larger connector blocks, so you could just use 1?  Not that it is a big deal, just thinking it might be confusing connecting 2-3 plugs as well as just more time swapping the panels.  It would be nice to have a connection like a "docking station" on a palm pilot, where you can just slide in and out of it....

[Bumblebounces]

I know I am so lazy that I would just use whatever panel was there and play only games it would work with.  Terrible, I know, but no one knows me better than I do.

I'm the same way.  Isn't it amazing how many people in this hobby will spend months designing the perfect set of CP's, interface methods, layouts, etc. and then are too lazy to spend 30 seconds to swap a panel around.

I do the same thing over and over - I spend hours coming up with tweaks so the PC boots 5 seconds faster . . . go figure!

I figured the same thing for myself, plus was afraid the panels that were not currently in use would be "played with" by my kids - "hey, can my kiddie scissors cut through these cool wires?".  So I decide to rotate 3 always attached control panels and take the lazyness and fear out of it.

Back to the topic at hand, won't each panel need 2 or 3 12-way connectors?   Can't you get larger connector blocks, so you could just use 1?  Not that it is a big deal, just thinking it might be confusing connecting 2-3 plugs as well as just more time swapping the panels.  It would be nice to have a connection like a "docking station" on a palm pilot, where you can just slide in and out of it....

That's kinda what I had in mind.  Laptop dock with little LED's to confirm that both edges to the edge connector went into the slot.  Abandoned idea but a great one.  I do think about doing it one day, just because it would be so damned cool, but I probably never will.  The stray not in use panels was a big dterrent plus my laziness which I see I am not alone on...  LOL

If anybody does this on their panel, get some good pics of it.  I would love to see how it comes out.

Bumble

[Nannuu]

Mahuti got home made leaf switches to work fairly well:
http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=16113

[jcoleman]

Now that the IPAC VE is out, my plans for my next CP will involve an IPAC on each panel, requiring nothing more than a USB connection to the PC.  $35 is a pretty good price considering everything you'd have to buy (terminal strip, extra wire, connectors) and then assemble.

Coleman

[NoOne=NBA=]

I originally had swappable panels, but abandoned that when I realized how much it was going to cost to do ALL the panels I wanted.
I went to a modular system, and use a filing cabinet that was next to my cab anyway to store the modules.

For me the two biggest goals on my CP were simplicity, and being centered on the cab.
When I wanted to play a game, I didn't want to have a bunch of unused controls everywhere, and would have needed a 6 foot wide CP to put all the controls I wanted onto it.
I also found that, after getting my original swappable CP's going, it really annoyed me to play 1 stick/1 button games off to the left side of my cabinet.

With the modular system, I can still MAKE an all-around panel when people come over to play, but it offers the added bonus of being able to tailor the panel to the EXACT game I want to play as well.

After having the modular system for awhile now, there is absolutely no way I would EVER go back to anything else.

[rsoandrew]

I went to a modular system, and use a filing cabinet that was next to my cab anyway to store the modules.

After having the modular system for awhile now, there is absolutely no way I would EVER go back to anything else.

I've been thinking about the same thing. I even thought about sending something to Oscar to see if he would design sell it (since he already has somebody to do fabrication).

I would love to see/read about what you came up with.

I envisioned a system that was three parts; the receptacle that is permanently mounted to the CP, the male portion with the wire etc for dropping into the CP and a top plate. There would be different top plates for different purposes. You could have a top plate for a two-way joystick, one for a four-way, one for a spinner, one for extra buttons - you get the idea.  There would be several female pods on the CP and you

[Doc-]

Go modular!  I have a pretty complete modular system, and I'm continuously expanding it.

I used CAT5 network connectors on two wall sockets, along with a USB hub to handle the analog devices.  Just about any layout is possible, and it takes less than a minute to reconfigure.

Here's detailed pictures, diagrams, tables...just click on the links at the top of the web page to see the wiring, panels, modular system, etc.

http://www.beersmith.com/mame

Doc-

[telengard]

Go modular!  I have a pretty complete modular system, and I'm continuously expanding it.

I used CAT5 network connectors on two wall sockets, along with a USB hub to handle the analog devices.  Just about any layout is possible, and it takes less than a minute to reconfigure.

Here's detailed pictures, diagrams, tables...just click on the links at the top of the web page to see the wiring, panels, modular system, etc.

http://www.beersmith.com/mame

Doc-

Looking good!  

I'm currently finishing up the move to CAT5 thanks to your idea.  I noticed you mentioned that you were having issues with the joysticks which when you first posted your panels I was wondering about.  That was one of my prime concerns which is why I used the rack rails/screws.  Granted it takes an extra minute or so to swap but the thing is rock solid even for really rough playing games.  Swapping is so much easier now with the CAT5 cables.  I've color coded the cables and keystone jacks to make it a no-brainer.  I had thought of something similar to your panels but I was afraid my saw wouldn't be accurate enough.  The rack panels are an industry standard as far as measurements (1U, 2U, 3U, etc) so I didn't have to worry about that.

I ended up getting "pass thru" keystone connectors and a 24 socket panel for those interested.

And I have to agree with what others have mentioned.  I wouldn't go back to single/swappable panels after having this.  Modular is the way to go IMO.  I can duplicate *any* panel just about.  I finally got a Pac-Man joy so I can play Tapper with that joystick and the Tapper handle.  Woo-Hoo!  

[Doc-]

I'm currently finishing up the move to CAT5 thanks to your idea.  I noticed you mentioned that you were having issues with the joysticks which when you first posted your panels I was wondering about.  That was one of my prime concerns which is why I used the rack rails/screws.  

And I have to agree with what others have mentioned.  I wouldn't go back to single/swappable panels after having this.  Modular is the way to go IMO.  

Actually, no issues with the joysticks using the diagrammed mounting system.  I've only had one joystick pop during play, and it turned out that the roller latch had moved out of position so it was not locked down properly.  It took about a minute to put the latch back in the correct position, and I've had no other gameplay issues since.

As you point out, you do need access to a table saw and probably a drill press to do a good job accurately cutting the panels and drilling the holes.  You can set the saw for one panel width and then mass produce the panels if you want - same with the drill press.

However - absolutely nothing wrong with your metal panels - they look great and I'm sure the design is rock solid!

CAT5 and USB are the way to go for modular panels.  Swapping is a piece of cake!

I had two friends over the other day who had played my cabinet before I went modular and then again afterwards - both were totally blown away by the flexibility.  As soon as a game came to mind, we just popped in the correct controllers and fired it up.  One player wanted his sticks on the right - so he played 4 ways, 8 ways, trackball, any way - no problem.  There is no way you could have done it all even with a frankenpanel.  He is now building his design based on the modular setup.

Need to add some more panels to the web site - I have a "tron" type converted Wingman stick (8 way, 3 button) and some narrow 4 button panels now.

[DaveMMR]

I love Doc's modular design - definately a sleek, functional marvel.  Nevertheless I'm still going with full panels that are swappable.  However, I'm making it so that a good chunk of the games are playable with the main panel (no wasting a panel for a 4-way joystick when I'll have enough space for it on the main).  I also designed the cab so that extra panels can be stored at the bottom of the cab (though I can't store that many, but I don't envision making that many panels to begin with).  

I like the idea of just slapping an I-PAC onto each panel instead of fooling with connections.  I don't know how feasible that is though, cost wise.  I also loved the idea of the leaf connections (I just wish there was more written on the outcome, problems, etc. because I can't really afford to be experimental right now).  

Perhaps it's time to hit the ole' calc.exe and see the whole time vs. cost factor on the I-PAC (and OPTI-PAC) for every panel idea.  

[telengard]

I'm currently finishing up the move to CAT5 thanks to your idea.  I noticed you mentioned that you were having issues with the joysticks which when you first posted your panels I was wondering about.  That was one of my prime concerns which is why I used the rack rails/screws.  

And I have to agree with what others have mentioned.  I wouldn't go back to single/swappable panels after having this.  Modular is the way to go IMO.  

Actually, no issues with the joysticks using the diagrammed mounting system.  I've only had one joystick pop during play, and it turned out that the roller latch had moved out of position so it was not locked down properly.  It took about a minute to put the latch back in the correct position, and I've had no other gameplay issues since.

As you point out, you do need access to a table saw and probably a drill press to do a good job accurately cutting the panels and drilling the holes.  You can set the saw for one panel width and then mass produce the panels if you want - same with the drill press.

However - absolutely nothing wrong with your metal panels - they look great and I'm sure the design is rock solid!

CAT5 and USB are the way to go for modular panels.  Swapping is a piece of cake!

I had two friends over the other day who had played my cabinet before I went modular and then again afterwards - both were totally blown away by the flexibility.  As soon as a game came to mind, we just popped in the correct controllers and fired it up.  One player wanted his sticks on the right - so he played 4 ways, 8 ways, trackball, any way - no problem.  There is no way you could have done it all even with a frankenpanel.  He is now building his design based on the modular setup.

Need to add some more panels to the web site - I have a "tron" type converted Wingman stick (8 way, 3 button) and some narrow 4 button panels now.

Very cool.  Yeah my table saw is an el-cheapo and I am pretty clumsy so staying away is probably a good idea.    

I need to finish up my modules also.  I have most of the easy ones done.  What's left now is the big stuff like the Star Wars yoke, Spy Hunter yoke, Pole Position wheel, Sinistar joystick, and other exotic controls.  I'll eventually put pics up of all the controls when they are done.

I can't overstate how much easier modular controls are w/ the CAT 5.  Color coding the patch panels and cables makes it soooo much better.  Thanks for showing me the light!

While we're on the subject anyone have any alternatives to "terminal strips" that are jumpered to give more than 2 terminals per connection?  With 24 CAT5 cables coming to my IPAC I need something in between for multiple connections.

You are definitely right about the design being catchy.  I helped a friend build a cocktail and he wanted all the off the wall stuff I have in my cab:  modular controls, rotating monitor, etc.   That's where the real hard work was.  We got his cocktail up in about a 1/2 hour w/ the IPAC, the other stuff takes lots of time.

[telengard]

I love Doc's modular design - definately a sleek, functional marvel.  Nevertheless I'm still going with full panels that are swappable.  However, I'm making it so that a good chunk of the games are playable with the main panel (no wasting a panel for a 4-way joystick when I'll have enough space for it on the main).  I also designed the cab so that extra panels can be stored at the bottom of the cab (though I can't store that many, but I don't envision making that many panels to begin with).  

I like the idea of just slapping an I-PAC onto each panel instead of fooling with connections.  I don't know how feasible that is though, cost wise.  I also loved the idea of the leaf connections (I just wish there was more written on the outcome, problems, etc. because I can't really afford to be experimental right now).  

Perhaps it's time to hit the ole' calc.exe and see the whole time vs. cost factor on the I-PAC (and OPTI-PAC) for every panel idea.  

Hehe, you're still going to have to connect the IPAC to your PC, but I do see what you mean.  I would think that multiple IPACs would be OK unless you plan on having more than a few panels.  I hade 8 panels before I switched to modular.  That would have been a little too cost prohibitive.    

[JAZ]

Thanks for the replies. OK, would I be correct in thinking:

-I wire each one of my control panels up to a single molex of xx#inputs.

-I then wire up the iPac to a single molex with xx#inputs.

-When I want to change control panels I simply disconnect the panel and replace it with another

Is that right?

If this is correct, my next question would be what happens if I connect my Pacman panel (1 player start, 1 player coin, 1 x 4-way joystick, 5 x buttons) to the iPac. The iPac will be wired up for a lot of things that are on the other panels, but not this more simplistic one. Are the extra controls that are wired on the iPac simply redundant in this instance as they are not used or required? (ie, they just don't work)

 
/Rebirth, you mentioned that "Back to the topic at hand, won't each panel need 2 or 3 12-way connectors?  Can't you get larger connector blocks, so you could just use 1?  Not that it is a big deal, just thinking it might be confusing connecting 2-3 plugs as well as just more time swapping the panels"   Any idea what the largest size block is? I did a search and the largest seems to be 15 inputs - which would mean I would wire up a 15 pin for each player on each control panel, and the iPac.

[krick]

I'm following the advice of Bob Roberts and using 12-pin Molex connectors for everything as described in his JAMMA harness hookup page...
http://www.dameon.net/BBBB/jh.html
...and his Super JAMMA Harness page...
http://www.dameon.net/BBBB/super.html
...and his JAMMA Plus page...
http://www.dameon.net/BBBB/plus.html


This is the 12-pin molex connectors on the JAMMA harness side...

Player1:
01 GROUND
02 START
03 UP
04 DOWN
05 LEFT
06 RIGHT
07 BUTTON1
08 BUTTON2
09 BUTTON3
10 BUTTON4 (if present)
11 BUTTON5 (if present)
12 EXTRA GROUND

Player2:
01 GROUND
02 START
03 UP
04 DOWN
05 LEFT
06 RIGHT
07 BUTTON1
08 BUTTON2
09 BUTTON3
10 BUTTON4 (if present)
11 BUTTON5 (if present)
12 --


On the control panel side, I'm going to have this a 12 pin molex connector for each
Player position, 1 through 4:
01 GROUND
02 START
03 UP
04 DOWN
05 LEFT
06 RIGHT
07 BUTTON1
08 BUTTON2
09 BUTTON3
10 --
11 --
12 --

And a 12-pin molex connector
for all the extra non-JAMMA buttons:
01 P1 BUTTON4
02 P1 BUTTON5
03 P1 BUTTON6
04 P1 BUTTON7
05 P1 BUTTON8 (if present)
06 P2 BUTTON4
07 P2 BUTTON5
08 P2 BUTTON6
09 P2 BUTTON7
10 P2 BUTTON8 (if present)
11 P3 BUTTON4
12 P4 BUTTON4