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Author Topic: ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition  (Read 43517 times)

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mr.Curmudgeon

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ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« on: June 03, 2004, 01:01:55 am »
We'll...they said it couldn't be done. Yet, here it is.

The T-Stik Plus (Plus) - Willy Wonka Edition

Note: Using a rubber belt & plastic gear set that was initially intended for use in an RC car and a slightly modified mouse, I've created a mechanical rotary modification for the T-Stik Plus. Thus, making the mounted joystick a triple-threat, ie: 4-way & 8-way switchable, with rotary functions added on (for my favorite games, such as Ikari Warriors and Heavy Barrel). All the modifications to the joystick are reversible; no damage is done if the apparatus needs to be removed. The plastic gear is simply threaded onto the bottom of the joystick shafts pre-existing threads, once the plastic gear is tapped with the correct thread ratio. No changes to the joystick needed!

This solution came about because I wanted one joystick per player on the CP to do 4/8-way games and I prefer mechanically restricted joystick movement (without the need for restrictor plates), which makes the T-stik the only viable choice for me. However, I also enjoy rotary games, but did not want to add more joystick to the CP design, nor did I care to have a modular CP. I prefer simple, elegant, all-in-one solutions, without additional hassles; making it something even my guest players can use and understand.

Videos:

Joystick movement w/ rotary mod:Switching from 4-way to 8-way:

Assembled Joystick Apparatus:


Wonka Mod T-Stick Disassembled:



Additional Parts Needed:


Process:





Underneath CP:


Belt Mechanics:


Mouse Modifications:



Mounting:

« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 09:45:14 pm by mr.Curmudgeon »

dirt

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2004, 01:16:07 am »
very well done!!!!! i beleive that gets you the wonka award of the week  ;)



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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2004, 02:16:16 am »
Great idea and very well executed!

(Golf clap)



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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2004, 02:59:01 am »
Cool

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2004, 03:53:46 am »
Pimp.

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2004, 06:40:02 am »
Sweet! Way to think outside the cabinet!  Question though--it looks like in one of the directions you might get a lot of slack i.e shaft toward the mouse--is that a problem or does the belt continue to ride the gears?  I guess you could spring mount the mouse so that it maintains tension on the belt regardless of where it was positioned.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2004, 08:54:14 am by menace »
its better to not post and be thought a fool, then to whip out your keyboard and remove all doubt...

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2004, 07:55:19 am »
That's pretty damn cool, and to think I said it couldn't be done!  :-[

You could further the idea on a 2 player panel by hooking up the 2nd mouse axis optics in some kind of custom housing for the Player 2 stick.

I decided I wouldn't bother with rotary sticks for the sake of a handful of games - might have to change my mind now... :)
« Last Edit: June 03, 2004, 07:55:53 am by Minwah »

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2004, 08:16:58 am »
Props.  Very well executed.

mr.Curmudgeon

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2004, 09:42:39 am »
Question though--it looks like in one of the directions you might get a lot of slack i.e shaft toward the mouse--is that a problem or does the belt continue to ride the gears?  I guess you could spring mount the mouse so that it maintains tension on the belt regardless of where it was positioned.

I went with the belt (rather than a simple rubber band) because of that very issue. The teeth keep riding the gear, just as you've suggested. The T-Stik doesn't really have that much travel, so the belt stays pretty taut. The thin mouting bracket allows for enough "spring-like" action that there is never really enough slack to cause problems. In addition, you don't even notice the additional assembly (ie: joystick doesn't strain in any direction).


-Thanks everybody, for the compliments so far!

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2004, 09:51:11 am »
ack!

How come you couldn't have come up with this before I bought my rotary sticks from ebay?

good show!

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2004, 09:53:00 am »
I was wondering if you thought it would be easier to go optical.  Instead of the belt system, put an encoder wheel on the bottom like a spinner.

Any thoughts?

mr.Curmudgeon

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2004, 09:56:38 am »
That's pretty damn cool, and to think I said it couldn't be done!  :-[

Hehe...thanks!

Quote
You could further the idea on a 2 player panel by hooking up the 2nd mouse axis optics in some kind of custom housing for the Player 2 stick.

I do plan on having two of these on the CP, so I'll be sure post more info/photos once the second joy is modded. My only question, so far, is in a game like Ikari, how do you assign the X-axis to P1 and the Y-axis to P2?  I've had two mice hooked up at once in MAME and they both control P1 completely.

Quote
I decided I wouldn't bother with rotary sticks for the sake of a handful of games - might have to change my mind now... :)

Awesome! Let me know if it works out.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2004, 09:58:25 pm by mr.Curmudgeon »

mr.Curmudgeon

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2004, 10:54:40 am »
I was wondering if you thought it would be easier to go optical.  Instead of the belt system, put an encoder wheel on the bottom like a spinner.

Any thoughts?

Originally I tried this, but it then becomes either expensive or difficult to create a mechanism that keeps the encoder board stationary, while allowing the joystick shaft to pan and tilt and spin. Even when I came up with something that might work (joy shaft through a rollerblade bearing attached to a encoder board on a spring), it didn't allow for the joystick raising when you engage in 4-to-8-way switching. Plus, I couldn't figure out a way to add it without altering the joystick (ie: drilling into it, or extending the shaft).

The belt allows enough room to manuver while avoiding all of those issues. Plus it's super easy to install. The hardest part was making sure the gear remained straight while it was threaded onto the joystick.

Added Note: Of course, someone else may come up with a completely different and totally viable optical solution  ;D. So you never know. Keep in mind that the T-Stik is different than all other joys on the market, so the real challenge was "geared" (pun-intended) towards that specific beauty.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2004, 11:53:41 am by mr.Curmudgeon »

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2004, 10:55:12 am »
I was wondering if you thought it would be easier to go optical.  Instead of the belt system, put an encoder wheel on the bottom like a spinner.

Any thoughts?

That's the first thing I thought of, but after a little brainstorming I don't think it would work.  When you pulled the stick up to change from 4/8 way it moves the shaft up so far.  Your optics would have to move with the wheel, not to mention moving the stick side to side and such.  You'd have to mount the optics on the same rod as the wheel.  This would allow it to stay in the correct position, but when you twisted the stick, the optics would spin with the wheel.  That's all I could think of so far.

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2004, 01:15:46 pm »
mr.Curmudgeon ,

Awesome ! Now when you gonna make me one...LOL

Guys this is pretty unbeleiveable considering we just built the control panel within the last three weeks.

Signed
Ed

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Want list - Diner Pinball, hit the ice cab, tmnt controls and panel

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2004, 01:23:18 pm »
I'm do plan on having two of these on the CP, so I'll be sure post more info/photos once the second joy is modded. My only question, so far, is in a game like Ikari, how do you assign the X-axis to P1 and the Y-axis to P2?  I've had two mice hooked up at once in MAME and they both control P1 completely.

You need to use MAME Analog+ I believe - it can handle the 2 axis as 2 separate devices so each player can have one :)

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2004, 01:46:22 pm »
Awesome job! Any chance Andy or someone else could mass produce these? Ikari warriors in my future?

Edit- for crappy spellin :(
« Last Edit: June 03, 2004, 01:47:15 pm by dmsuchy »

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2004, 08:38:49 pm »
[size=10]Bling bling[/size]

That rocks

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2004, 10:05:05 pm »
wow... just wow... very enterprising...

I love it when something "can't" be done and someone finds a way...  

from rotating control panels right down to this hack...

gj!

rampy

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2004, 08:00:19 am »
once again, WOW!  :o

I think we'll have to drink to this miraculous invention tomorrow at FunSpot.
Well done!

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2004, 05:25:16 pm »
I love those rotary games and you've certainly solved a dilemma I had as I wanted to be able to play those too without resorting to an extra joystick.

Great job.

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2004, 06:52:20 am »

I am extremely proud of it, so don't laugh ;)

Im Not Laughing, Im amazed..  ;D   BLOODY WELL DONE...!!!
Now i have a cabinet issue which needs some "out of the box thinking" can you help  :P

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2004, 05:35:50 pm »
Thank you!

Also, beware Acids, there's no guarantee on the quality of my help. :)

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2004, 12:50:22 pm »
That's awesome!  Can you play Tempest or Arkanoid with it?  How easy does the T-stick rotate?
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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2004, 06:07:48 pm »
How's the rotation? Nice and smooth?
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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2004, 10:19:42 pm »
To answer both the above, the rotation is extremely smooth. It rotates easily, since I didn't over-tighten the pulley. I just played Ikari and Heavy Barrel this weekend at the arcade w/ the rounded yellow joystick (which I think are not the original SNK rotaries, though) for a comparison, and the only difference I found was the arcade joys clicked when you turned them. I'm working on a few ideas to easily add this function though. The game play seemed exactly the same.

When I first built the Wonka hack I thought spinning the ball-top was a little awkward, but compared to the barrel joy at the arcade, I found it was easier to use in the end. I scored higher and played longer (per life) on both games using the Wonka hack.

In Mame32, I've had to adjust the sensitivity settings to find a comfortable level of control ('Tab', 'Analog Controls' then 'Dial Sensitivity', set to 80% or so). I think you have to do this with any rotary-like control though. Not sure.

As for Arkanoid/Tempest, since this hack is basically a spinner in disguise, YES you could use a Wonka enabled T-Stik as a spinner (4-in-1 solution??). I played them both just fine with it, the only potential issue is that you have to avoid moving the joystick left/right/up or down while you spin, since that activates the controls as well. It's not that hard to avoid though, since the T-Stik requires a good amount of pressure in any direction to engage the microswitch.

Oh, it doesn't "freespin" though, but I could never figure out why people need their spinner to spin freely for two mintues straight anyhow?!  ???

I happen to have a "Nasty" spinner, but it isn't hooked up right now. I'll try to get it going over the next few days, so I can directly compare the Wonka Hack with a spinner.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2004, 10:37:35 pm by mr.Curmudgeon »

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2004, 01:13:26 am »
Quote
I just played Ikari and Heavy Barrel this weekend at the arcade w/ the rounded yellow joystick (which I think are not the original SNK rotaries, though)

Correct.  The rounded yellow-tops are Data East rotaries.  The SNK models had Octagon shaped tops.  The Data East models use a Wico Leafswitch base, while the SNK ones are made by Semitsu and use microswitches.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2007, 11:40:32 am by Kremmit »

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2004, 04:46:03 am »
I just played Ikari and Heavy Barrel this weekend at the arcade w/ the rounded yellow joystick (which I think are not the original SNK rotaries, though) for a comparison, and the only difference I found was the arcade joys clicked when you turned them. I'm working on a few ideas to easily add this function though. The game play seemed exactly the same.

I wouldn't do anything about the clicking.  Some games it would be nice for (ie ones that used mechanical rotaries like Ikari), but I think it might not be too great for some other which originally used optical rotaries (like Caliber 50).

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2004, 09:55:24 am »
I'm only thinking about adding the clicking as an option, since some people my want it. Plus, it's fun developing stuff. Personally, playing with the hack over the last few days, I've become accustom to not having it and it's not really missed.

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2004, 02:55:05 pm »
sorry to jump in like this... but your mod to the joystick is VERY INSPIRING !!!!.... it kept me thinking.... and thinking...

and I come up with the following idea in my mind....
(that is basically a slight variation of your idea....)
its kind of like a clicking version of your mod....
and it only involves 2 microswitches....

the only thing is the gear..... I will need a 12 groove metal gear.... anyone knows where I can search for those ??...
(I know... probably places that do models cars and stuffs...  but I was never into model cars and stuff.... so, donno any places like that....)

also... does that looked like a workable solution ??

Another Brilliant mind ruined by education....  :p

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2004, 03:03:14 pm »
and in case the pic doesn't make sense...

the 12 groove metal gear will be attached to the end of the stick.... and when you rotate the stick.... the gear (hard plastic or metal is preferred for abuse) will turn with the shaft...

this will "click" on the 2 coin door style microswitch...
turning 1 direction will turn only 1 ms.... reverse the turn and it'll click the other ms....

the spring will need to be there to make sure the ms metal will be kept in the "initial position"... ready to be clicked....

and if the gear groove thingy is deep enough... you should still be able to click the ms even when moving....

well..... for now... I donno how well it will manage if you spin the stick REALLY QUICKLY.... will the gear and the MS catch up.... or... in the long run.... (assuming the gear is metal, it should be ok...) but the coin door ms... that lever piece of metal... will it goes bad....

from my initial thinking... the only thing about this mod is "WHERE OR HOW TO GET THIS PARTICULAR 12 GROOVE GEAR ??" if I can get one, I think its worth a try....



« Last Edit: June 08, 2004, 03:05:03 pm by hyiu »
Another Brilliant mind ruined by education....  :p

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2004, 04:34:51 pm »
... the only thing about this mod is "WHERE OR HOW TO GET THIS PARTICULAR 12 GROOVE GEAR ??"

Isn't that always the case!  :)

I like the idea, but I think there may be a simpler way of adding the clicking feature. I've got something in mind, I'll try to post about it soon. The only issue I can see with the microswitch idea is, how well will the gear make contact w/ the MS when the joystick is tilted? That was the big issue when I first approached this hack.

Also, Why the 12-grooves? Will that allow the proper number of 'clicks' between each degree of firing in Ikari and such?  What are the actual degrees, btw, in the characters rotation and how many click between each?

EDIT: Content
« Last Edit: June 13, 2004, 10:41:00 am by mr.Curmudgeon »

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2004, 01:26:21 am »
Quote
What are the actual degrees, btw, in the characters rotation and how many click between each?

360 degrees in a circle
12 positions
360 divided by 12 = 30 degrees per click

looking at that picture... won't the "gear" both switches no matter which way you rotate?  It looks like whichever way you go, one will be hit in the "right" direction, and the other will be hit in the "wrong" direction.. won't this cause a problem?  I'm assuming you're using one switch to register clockwise turns, and the other for counter-clockwise.  Xybots used a stick that did that; but it didn't rotate all the way around, just twisted about 1/8 turn in either direction, enough to trip either the clockwise or the counter-clockwise switch.  That would be pretty easy to build- see bottom image (original retained for comparison)


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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2004, 04:13:36 pm »
neat idea...

got a question... do you have any problems rotating and moving at the same time?  

How about doing a super upper cut or any weird things like that.... could this cause the belt to fall off?

GREAT JOB!

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2004, 04:39:13 pm »
neat idea...

got a question... do you have any problems rotating and moving at the same time?  

How about doing a super upper cut or any weird things like that.... could this cause the belt to fall off?

GREAT JOB!

Thanks!

No. It works perfectly so far and it hasn't come close to falling off. I don't think the T-Stik has enough travel to pop it off. I've played Heavy Barrel/Ikari constantly without issue (extreme rotating while moving).

The only weak point would be the pulley that is threaded on the shaft end, pulling/twisting too hard when switching from 4-way to 8-way could lead to trouble, but so far it hasn't. I'd like to get a metal version of the pulley to avoid this potential issue, but I haven't found one yet.

I've also had plently of success with spinner games. After testing the Wonka hack against a true spinner I can comfortably say that it works well. I played Cameltry all the way through without trouble. Arkanoid works, etc. Although I still prefer a spinner for spinner games, I'd say if a person has limited space on the CP and can only fit one joystick, this modification provides an extra bit of gameplay (spinner games/rotary games) without much sacrifice.

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2004, 08:36:42 am »
The only weak point would be the pulley that is threaded on the shaft end, pulling/twisting too hard when switching from 4-way to 8-way could lead to trouble, but so far it hasn't. I'd like to get a metal version of the pulley to avoid this potential issue, but I haven't found one yet.

What about (rifle) drilling the control stick shaft and tapping it, then using a metal thread screw to secure the pulley so it can not be pulled off..??

« Last Edit: June 15, 2004, 08:45:14 am by Hoopstar »

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2004, 12:17:53 pm »

What about (rifle) drilling the control stick shaft and tapping it, then using a metal thread screw to secure the pulley so it can not be pulled off..??


That would work and if you are comfortable doing that, it would certainly strengthen the modification. However, one of my goals was to create a hack that did not require altering the stock T-Stik in any way. In reality, I'm just not that good with a tap either.  ;D

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2004, 03:14:10 pm »
mr.Curmudgeon.... I said 12 groove because the original stick has 12 position.... and yes... finding that gear will be the hardest part for me.... since I don't know how to make one....

and Kremmit... sorry for not being clear...
if you look closely... my pic has 1 of the microswitch flip sided installed... (so its kinda like your diagram... just I put the ms on the opposite side since I think that will leave me more space to work on.....)

as to when I'm moving the stick... will it stick catch the ms...
I think if the groove is long enough,  it should still click....
Another Brilliant mind ruined by education....  :p

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2004, 11:50:59 am »

Quote
finding that gear will be the hardest part for me.... since I don't know how to make one....

How about instead of using a gear, just use a 3" hole saw (or whatever size, really) to cut a round piece of wood?  Then you can make cuts at 30-degree intervals and add a stiff (yet flexible) piece of plastic, say cut from a coffee can lid, at each one.  Stick this on the bottom of the t-stick and you're set.  You may even be able to use a tee nut to hold the wheel on there.

Hell, I might even try this now!  :)

Just another thought...not sure if this is a bug or a feature.  You might have some analog translation issues, depending on how slowly you twist the stick.  When using this, you'd be able to hold down the rotate button and not just have a momentary switch.  

Something tells me that it's silly to try to do this when I already have 2 shiny new LS-30 sticks just begging to be put to use.  Druin, are you out there?  :)

Coleman

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2004, 03:48:44 pm »
Hey, I believe I found a site that sells 12 flange/groove pulleys. See if any of these will work.


https://sdp-si.com/eStore/Direct.asp?GroupID=218
« Last Edit: June 16, 2004, 04:03:55 pm by depressd »

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2004, 03:54:27 pm »
I keep thinking.... the only flaw for this design is...

when you move the stick.... it might somewhat affect the position of clicking.... what if I attach a "plane" on the other piece and attach the spinning gear on the stick ??... then
when you move the stick... the "plane" will also move....

ok.... ok.... I don't think you'll understand what I mean....
let me try again..... I'll go dig the digaram.... now...

ok.... go to happcontrols.com... look at the competition stick...

at the part 95-0197-00 (its the square part that you put on the stick....)
you attach a small piece of plastic (like 2 in x 2 in)....

and on that plastic.... you screw / nail the microswitch on it !!!...
so when you move the stick.... the plane will move accordingly !!!... but when you rotate the stick... the plane will not follow the rotation !!

and then the gear and stuffs.... you put on the shaft itself....

well... this is just a thought..... not completely worked out the details yet....  you might end up needing a longer stick or something..... or might need to modd the stick more for this to work....  I'm just thinking out loud....

well... I'll go home and check the competition stick tonight when I get home...

Another Brilliant mind ruined by education....  :p

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #41 on: June 16, 2004, 03:57:26 pm »
also... u put the ms against each other... no need for springs !!!....

Another Brilliant mind ruined by education....  :p

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2004, 04:19:24 pm »
Stick this on the bottom of the t-stick and you're set.  

You'd have to extend the shaft in some way, it's way too short to add anything substantial. As it is, this hack uses the pulley in place of the lock-nut as there isn't room for both.

I've thought about mounting a very thin notched disc above the pulley (think larger mouse encoding wheel), then using a thick wire, maybe two, (think heavy paperclip) mounted via the microswitch screw, hanging down and creating the "click". Haven't had time to try it yet.
Maybe this crappy ascii will better explain:
_____________________________
|                                                        |
|                    joystick                        |        
|____________________________|
                        |   |                |[====] <-----microswitch
                        |   |shaft        |    <-----------wire
                        |   |                |
            ==============O    <------------encoder, rounded end of wire clicks into it when turned
                  [||||||||||||]      <---------------pulley      
                         [_]
     
« Last Edit: June 16, 2004, 06:18:34 pm by mr.Curmudgeon »

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2004, 04:38:32 pm »
Stick this on the bottom of the t-stick and you're set.  

You'd have to extend the shaft in some way, it's way too short to add anything substantial. As it is, this hack uses the pulley in place of the lock-nut as there isn't room for both.

Quote
You may even be able to use a tee nut to hold the wheel on there.

 ;D

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2004, 11:52:01 am »
Hey, I believe I found a site that sells 12 flange/groove pulleys. See if any of these will work.


https://sdp-si.com/eStore/Direct.asp?GroupID=218

That is a GREAT link! Thanks! I'm searching it now for replacement (pre-threaded) metal pulleys for this hack. I'll post if there is any success.

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #45 on: June 18, 2004, 10:12:08 pm »
Your very welcome mr.Curmudgeon. It took me about an hr searching. Like most good things. I stumbled across it.  ;D

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #46 on: July 29, 2004, 11:42:50 pm »
Wanted to thank mr.Curmudgeon for the idea.

I took your idea, but with a P360.  I also threw out the idea of not modifying the joystick.  I had some extra shafts and didn't really care if I modified them slightly.   It's actually pretty sweet, I've hooked up both P1 (X-axis) and P2 (Y-axis), modified the source in Mame and have two player rotary control goodness.

Thanks again for the idea.  I'll post more info if anyone is interested, just let me know.

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #47 on: July 30, 2004, 12:16:44 pm »
You are very welcome. I'd LOVE to see pics. Feel free to add them to this thread, as it would only serve to help others.

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #48 on: July 30, 2004, 03:55:42 pm »
why not use something like a dremel flexshaft attached to a spinner?

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #49 on: July 30, 2004, 04:26:03 pm »
why not use something like a dremel flexshaft attached to a spinner?

Cost?  At least $50 just for the 2 flexshafts, not including mounting, plus 2 spinners.

Accuracy?  Those things operate at thousands of RPMs, How accurate are they for turning 1/8 or 1/4 of a single revolution.

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #50 on: August 04, 2004, 08:35:05 pm »
Sorry for not getting the pics up sooner, as you'll see I couldn't get a good picture.  But here's what I did for my P360:

1. I used the same pulley, belt, and mouse hack.
2. I drilled a hole in the bottom of the joystick shaft.  Normal drill with a 3/32 bit.  Drilling went pretty easy and drilled down about 1/3"
3.  Bought the RC car shaft for the pulley's and sliced it so that I had both ends of the shaft with a dremel.  I used this shaft so that I could use the pin and e-clip to keep the pulley in place.
4.  Sanded/grinded the end I had cut to fit into the hole I drilled in the joystick with a dremel.   I did this to make it a bit more stable.
5.  I used JB weld to fuse the two shaft together.
6. Then attached the belt and mouse just like mr.Curmudgeon.  BTW, it took me for every to find a thin piece of aluminum to attach the mouse to give it some flex.  The aluminum the mouse is attached to is Plumber's tape and was in a roll in the plumbing section.
7.  The only other thing I did was the pulley wouldn't fit on the y-axis of the mouse for player 2.  So I put it on the x-axis and the cut the lead of the ic for the x-axis input.  I then soldered a wire from that trace to the y-axis input.

Here's the pics:
 

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #51 on: August 04, 2004, 08:36:01 pm »
Another pic without the flash, to see the JB Weld.  Looks better than the pic suggests.

« Last Edit: August 04, 2004, 08:37:25 pm by 2600 »

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #52 on: August 04, 2004, 08:36:48 pm »
Last pic with Pulley attached:

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #53 on: September 29, 2004, 04:20:12 pm »
AWESOME!!

Sorry I hadn't seen this until now...How's it working for you so far?

mrC

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #54 on: September 30, 2004, 08:44:52 am »
It works great.  Can't even feel the pulley attached.   I've been doing some other things, but I still need to adjust my settings in Ikari.  Maybe I need to adjust the difficulty dipswitch while I'm at it, because I got killed last time I played and didn't recall having that many people killing me.

By accident I used it in Discs of Tron and beat my Hi score on the first try with out losing a life.

Thanks again for your idea.

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #55 on: November 10, 2004, 07:03:34 am »
Hmmm does anyone have any ideas for extending the shaft of a joystick - I'm looking to implement something like this hack on my J-sticks, but the shaft is short and has a different end than the t-sticks. ("J-stick has an e-clip to retain it (rather than a nut like the T-Stik)")

I don't really have any tools for drilling into the shaft itself. I'm considering a simple superglue option done with care'n'clamps....

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #56 on: November 10, 2004, 02:54:19 pm »
Mount a piece of plastic (as mentioned acouple posts earlier) but have it click  against the gear on the mouse, instead of the stick.   Then you don't have to worry about the movement of the stick.

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #57 on: November 10, 2004, 04:10:53 pm »
I came late to this party, but I just wanted to say that this is perhaps the nuttiest hack I've yet seen on this site. mr.Curmudgeon is my new hero. Well done!

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Re: ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #58 on: January 28, 2005, 10:14:54 am »
I started to build one of the original Mr. Curmudgeon versions of this hack last night and the one problem I have so far is the T-Stick PLUS option does not work because the plastic gear does not genereate enough friction against the u-shaped metal piece of the T-stick to turn the lever from 4/8 way locking position.  Basically the gear just turns with the shaft and the locking mechanism stays put... I tried it with and without the lock washer and also tried filing both surfaces to rough them up and create some friction.  I may try super glue but wondered if anyone had found a more creative solution to this same problem?

TIA

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #59 on: January 28, 2005, 11:44:36 am »
Hmmm does anyone have any ideas for extending the shaft of a joystick - I'm looking to implement something like this hack on my J-sticks, but the shaft is short and has a different end than the t-sticks.

Shaft coupler.  You would slide it over the existing shaft, and tighten up a grub screw, then slide in the new shaft (same diameter) into the other half of the coupler, and do up another grub screw.

...where you would get one from in the UK I have no idea tho  :(

If you figure anything out be sure to post...I'd given up on this mod for the J-Stik...

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Re: ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #60 on: January 28, 2005, 12:02:18 pm »
Basically the gear just turns with the shaft and the locking mechanism stays put...

Damn...I haven't had any problem with it yet, still working fine. Maybe I just got lucky with the threading. Obviously the one improvement would be to replace the plastic gear w/ a metal version. I've tried contacting the pulley/gear manufactorer from the link upthread, but they haven't gotten back to me yet.

Maybe someone with more technical knowledge could see if they offer an appropriate gear on the site: https://sdp-si.com/eStore/Direct.asp?GroupID=218

Sorry you're having trouble with it Buzz, I'm looking for a way to eliminate that issue.

mrC

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #61 on: January 28, 2005, 12:04:03 pm »
Hmmm does anyone have any ideas for extending the shaft of a joystick - I'm looking to implement something like this hack on my J-sticks, but the shaft is short and has a different end than the t-sticks.

Shaft coupler.
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Re: ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #62 on: January 29, 2005, 12:37:01 am »
I love when older posts come back around and you learn something you had missed  :D

I tried this solution with no costs, used an existing joystick and an old mouse.  It has not been 100% playtested yet, but it really does work nicely with an 8% sensitivy analog setting in MAME.  Only took about 1 1/2 hrs to put a prototype it together, but I was lucky that everything fit (ie..the height of the roller in the mouse matched exactly the height of the joystick 'groove').

A standard rubber band seems to do the trick.  It seems the wider the better for more surface contact.  The groove on the joystick acts as a natural channel to keep the rubber band in place.

Now if only Frontline was configured to use the mouse  :(
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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #63 on: January 29, 2005, 04:31:49 pm »
If you figure anything out be sure to post...I'd given up on this mod for the J-Stik...

I managed to hack a couple of J-sticks to rotary using a different method. I came across a couple of old rotary encoders from old peice of audio kit. I checked the specs and it claimed a "2-bit gray encoding" for the output - however it turns out (after a quick conflab with Andy from Ultimarc!) that this is in fact just a phase difference - which is exactly how analogue arcade controls work - so it works fine with the optipac. If you are interested I can track down some more details......

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Re:ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #64 on: January 29, 2005, 05:42:55 pm »
I managed to hack a couple of J-sticks to rotary using a different method. I came across a couple of old rotary encoders from old peice of audio kit. I checked the specs and it claimed a "2-bit gray encoding" for the output - however it turns out (after a quick conflab with Andy from Ultimarc!) that this is in fact just a phase difference - which is exactly how analogue arcade controls work - so it works fine with the optipac. If you are interested I can track down some more details......

Yea I'm interested! :)  Have you got any pics of how you attached it to the J-stik?

mr.Curmudgeon

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Re: ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #65 on: January 30, 2005, 11:36:58 am »
I tried this solution with no costs, used an existing joystick and an old mouse.


LOL!! That's awesome...it looks a LOT like the prototype I built to test the idea myself. I used a rubber band attached right on to the shaft of the joystick and it worked...although it didn't stay on long, but it worked fine for testing.

I'm still looking to improve the current hack, since it seems the plastic pulley is giving people some trouble on the T-stik Plus (ie: not enough torque to switch, due to slippage)....So keep that in mind.

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Re: ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #66 on: February 03, 2005, 10:21:01 pm »
Would metal gears from an R/C car motor or gearbox work??

Just thinking

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Re: ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #67 on: February 06, 2005, 12:12:48 pm »
Quote from: mr.Curmudgeon
[quote
I'm still looking to improve the current hack, since it seems the plastic pulley is giving people some trouble on the T-stik Plus (ie: not enough torque to switch, due to slippage)....So keep that in mind.
Quote

A drop of Super Glue fixed the problem for a while.  Just let go last night.  I think i'll try again though I don't like how this could end up being a fairly permanent thing if it works.

I might try some sort of lubricant on the joystick shaft while I have it apart as well just to smooth out the spin motion a bit... I'm thinking silicone CPU heat transfer grease might work and at least it won't hurt anything. 

Also, I want to invert my mouse on the mounting bracket to try and get closer to exact height between the pulleys but this will reverse the direction of rotation.  I know I can fix this in the MAME setup but that also will reverse my trackball and stuff so instead I think I might try and change the wiring on the mouse.  Any one know anything about all these pinouts?  I don't really want to get into analogmame at this point.

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Re: ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #68 on: February 06, 2005, 04:55:11 pm »
I just read few posts back someone just cut the wires to y and moved them to x or vice versa.

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Re: ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #69 on: February 07, 2005, 04:32:55 pm »
Ya, thats not the same as reversing the direction of an axis.

Its OK, I creatively modified the mouse a little more to get it perfectly aligned with the height of the pulley on the joystick shaft.  It is now perfect.. as long as the Super Glue that enables my 4/8 way selectivity holds.  Very smooth.  Zero detectable impact on normal (non rotational) joystick use and I can reach 40,000 in Discs of Tron already and previously had never surpassed about 20,000 (using a Saitek flight stick and trackball combination) - not that I play dotron alot but the point is its a great controller now... it doesn't replace a nice heavy spinner in games like Tempest but I actually think its better than the Discs of Tron original controller setup (I always found it hard to precisely move Tron with the big flightstick yoke thing).  I never really played too many Rotary games in the arcade like Ikari, etc. but this solution seems perfect for those games on my cab... I do not see a huge need for clicking, I can see the point, but overall I would say I prefer not to add even slight resistance to the rotary action.

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Re: ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #70 on: August 31, 2005, 10:36:14 pm »
i just found this, and im in love with it.  How well will this work with happs supers?  I may break down and get the t-sticks, but im already WAY ovewrbudget with my cab....and its not even finished yet

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Re: ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #71 on: December 09, 2007, 03:44:39 pm »
Nice work Mr. C!

 :applaud:

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Re: ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #72 on: December 16, 2007, 02:03:08 pm »
Unfortunately I don't have the tools nor the time for this, but here's my take on this concept, creating a 'Spinstik'. Dear Ultimarc, feel free to turn this into a commercial product, just make sure I get two of these!

It's actually so simple, I might even be able to build this from a piece of Lego, come to think of it... I know that movement of the stick may affect the rotary position, but that should be small enough for rotary stick applications. I think  :)
« Last Edit: December 16, 2007, 02:35:48 pm by blueznl »

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Re: ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #73 on: December 18, 2007, 05:33:36 pm »
Gosh, I feel dumb. Of course someone had to sell this somewhere to begin with. Well, as was duly pointed out to me Happ did... http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/rotary_optical_joy_e.htm

(At least I can honestly claim I never saw that before I made this drawing. Great minds think alike etc. etc.  :-\)

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Re: ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #74 on: December 18, 2007, 08:24:12 pm »
 8)

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Re: ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #75 on: December 02, 2010, 06:33:17 am »
BYOAC - "Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.
"

I think reply fits, new topic can be started later if preferable.


Anyway, there might be simpler and possibly "better" solution if you are using MAME and have game port on your PC. All you need is 2 variable resistors in range from 0 - 100 kohm to make any two joystick become rotary sticks, or better to say "analog dials".


http://www.epanorama.net/documents/joystick/pc_circuits.html


First, it's good to know how to trick computer into detecting there is joystick on the game port.

Code: [Select]
    pin 1      +5      ________________
                                        |
                                        |
     pin 3      stick 1x _______________|
                                        |
                                        |
     pin 6      stick 1y _______________|

Say we assign X-axis to Player 1 and Y-axis to Player 2 clockwise/anticlockwise rotation. This wiring, without any potentiometers and resistors, would then set both Player 1 & 2 dials to maximum anticlockwise (max. left) position. So, what you want to do is this:

Code: [Select]
    pin 1      +5      ________________
                                        |
                             0-100k     |
     pin 3      stick 1x ____/\/\/\_____|
                                        |
                             0-100 k    |
     pin 6      stick 1y ____/\/\/\_____|


Plug in two variable resistors, so at 0 kohm the dials are at maximum anticlockwise, at 50 kohm they are centered, and with 100 kohm they are at their maximum clockwise position.


Now, the only question remains where to place it, it needs to rotate against static frame of the joystick. There is bottom, the middle and the top, where the problem is keeping the "horizontal" planes of the stick and the static frame parallel.

Code: [Select]
             ___                         BALL horizontal plane
           /     \   ===========================================
          |       |
           \     /                         TOP horizontal plane  
             | | ................................................  
             | |
             | |
             | |                                         MIDDLE
             | | ................................................  
 ___________ | | _____________
|___________\   /_____________|
   |         | |          |                          STATIC horizontal plane
   |         | |          | ==================================================
   |----------------------|
             | |                                         BOTTOM
             | | ................................................      
             ===


The bottom seem to be the most troublesome as the angle between "BOTTOM" plane and "STATIC" frame plane may vary wildly during the gamepley, so this need to involve some springs, rubber and such flexibility, which I think is preferable to avoid, if possible.

Only the top planes always stay parallel for sure, so the best place for this "pot" would be inside the ball. Only you would need a hollow stick to pass wires down.

The second best place could be the middle, where on some joystick there is plastic half-ball joint piece stick goes through and it also leans together with the stick, but stays fixed around vertical axis becasue of the spring downward pressure, so the stick rotates against it. That seems like a very good place for potentiometer, if I could only find one that is shaped like ring so to fix it to this half-ball joint and so that stick can pass through it as well, but in any case that could be made.

...unless, there is some even simpler solution?




BTW, my problem is how to make this work with real PCB, such as Caliber 50, so if you know how actual optical rotary joystick works please let me know - I started thread about it in the main forum.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 06:56:23 am by abaraba »
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Re: ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #76 on: December 02, 2010, 07:12:41 pm »
Unfortunately, I was wrong.

MAME does not translate analog joystick movement as spinner displacement, but as the speed of rotation. For the above to work you would then need to change this code handling "Analog Dial" in MAME, so the movement is displacement and then normally the speed would become 'displacement over time', as it should be.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 07:15:10 pm by abaraba »
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Re: ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #77 on: December 02, 2010, 09:46:20 pm »
I love that someone is still thinking about ways to improve this.  ;D  :cheers:

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Re: ROTARY T-STIK PLUS (PLUS) - Willy Wonka Edition
« Reply #78 on: December 04, 2010, 06:56:59 am »
This is very good hack here:

http://www.trimoor.com/rotary_joystick/








...btw, I also solved my problem, so I can tell that above right there is all you need to make this spinner work with actual arcade board, and to make it work with your PC and MAME you would also need the rest of the mouse, which then serves the same purpose as OptiPac adapter - converts quadrature code to serial PC packets. These mechanical encoders seem to be much more practical than potentiometers, especially since they are compatible with arcade spinners and trackballs out-of-the-box, so I take back my suggestions about resistors and analog joystick port. Anyway, I explained all this a bit more here, in my original thread: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=107640.0


mr.Curmudgeon,
your hack is also great, especially considering it is only "add-on" as opposed to "modification", very good!

« Last Edit: December 04, 2010, 07:00:15 am by abaraba »
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