Tools *cue Tim Allen grunts*

[rampy]

I hope I'm not innundating the board with too many questions =P  I'm pretty comfortable with the "electronics" portion of my project but the woodworking is a little bit of a stretch for me...

If you didn't have power tools already and were creating a control panel (or a whole cabinet... ) to fit into an existing cabinet...  

1. which tools would you get ( jigsaw? router? Dremel?  circular saw, sander, mouser)

2.  what would the minimum config of tools you could get "by" with...?

3.  Which tools would be most useful AFTER the cabinet is completed i.e. I'd use them again in other household projects..

Thanks for your time and thoughts/experiences....

[Howard_Casto]

I would say a circular saw a jigsaw a drill and some holesaw bits would do ya

A router for tmodling and other things might be nice.  Actually that's about it.  

Btw you'll need both a jigsaw and circular saw in most cases.  The jig saw for corners and the circular for the bulk of the cutting.  The jigg isn't precise enough to cut the whole thing out with unless you want wobblie edges.

[jelloslug]

Don't forget that is theres an expensive tool that you need (big table saw, ect) that you don't want to buy that you can usually rent stuff like that a tool rental places.

[SNAAAKE]

or you can rent from store like home depot.just buy it use it then return.haha...

all i used was a jigsaw..came out okay..but you got money then go for circuler saw(make life easier)..and router would be nice too..but iron edging would take care of the corners if you dont have lot of money.just my thoughts...

[neuromancer]

Number one tool: cordless drill. You need to look in the $100 range to get something with enough torque to be generally usefull. They are great for taking apart and assembling electronics and computers. Very useful for many home repair projects. My $120 DeWalt has enough torque to put a 3/4" arbor bit through an oak beam. My electric drill stalls out on that task.

To build a cabinet, you will need a saw. You can get the panels cut if you buy the wood at HomeDepot, but only straight cuts that go all the way across. They make 2 cuts for free per visit.

To make any curved cuts, you need a jig saw, but you could get by with a coping saw. For straight cuts you need a circular saw, buy you could get by with a jig saw, or a decent hand saw.

You could even make the cuts with a router. If you are going to put T moulding on the cabinet, you must have a router. I use my router every once in a while doing home repairs -- mainly to remove wood rot from siding or window sills before cutting a patch.

A couple clamps of various types will come in handy, holding stuff together while you drive the screws.

Bob
South Carolina

[rampy]

Thanks for all the feedback...  I think I'm gonna go with a combination of renting/buying/borrowing =P

What tool does one use to make square holes for carriage bolts?  OR am I missing something on how people are fastening their joysticks to their CP?  Or is there some sort of fancy washer with a  square inset that you use?

If I wasn't making a full cabinet, just a control panel for an existing cabinet, could I get by on the cuts with just a circular saw (and renting a router to do the t-molding groove on the front?)

Thanks again,

rampy

[botez]

I made a prototype control panel using just a circular saw and drill.  The drill is a good purchase as it comes in handy all the time.  The circular saw, not as much, since I bought a router that I find a lot easier to use than the circular saw.

In order of what I would get:
1. Drill
2. Router or Circular Saw (Depending on your preference/usage)
3. Table Saw (Only if you really could use it after the project, but very fun to have one)

That's about all you need for power tools.  The rest is just buying the bits/blades for everything.  Expect to need the following:

Drill Bits:
1. Some kind of bit to drill the button holes
2. Screwdriver bits for drilling the screws
3. Perhaps a countersink bit, if your plan calls for one

If you use a router, then these router bits:
1. Definitely a straight bit to cut the panels
2. A slot router bit for t-molding
3. A roundover bit if you want to round off the edges

If you use a circular saw, then:
1. Circular saw blade (one usually comes with the saw).  The quality of the blade depends on the wood type you use.  The harder the wood, the more expensive the blade (so that you don't chip the wood or break the blade).

These are just the basics of the power tool stuff you'll need.  You'll also need various things like straightedges, clamps, maybe sawhorses/2x4's to work on, etc.

I was in your situation about a year ago as far as not being sure where to start in the tool area.  You'd be amazed at the amount of info that comes across these boards that is helpful.  If you have anymore questions on costs, places to buy, etc. please ask as we all love to help around here.

Troy Olson

[darkmanx]

there is no way you need a $100 drill. my $24 drill got it done flawlessly. as did my $20 circular saw (both are "skill" brand). a jigsaw is good for the corners but i went with a dremel because i wanted one anyway. you can also do the t-molding with the cutting disc or even get the router attachment for it. in my opinion, first borrow from friends/relatives if you can. other than that, if you wont use the tools alot then just rent some. but if u will then might as well buy some anyway.

[Tiger-Heli]

there is no way you need a $100 drill. my $24 drill got it done flawlessly. as did my $20 circular saw (both are "skill" brand). a jigsaw is good for the corners but i went with a dremel because i wanted one anyway. you can also do the t-molding with the cutting disc or even get the router attachment for it. in my opinion, first borrow from friends/relatives if you can. other than that, if you wont use the tools alot then just rent some. but if u will then might as well buy some anyway.

I just wanted to add that a Dremel is also very useful depending what you want out of your project.

A router is very handy, if you will ever use it for any other projects, but they cost about $65.00, plus bits (which are about $15.00 each),  Renting doesn't work well either as they are about $25.00/hr (I think) and you still need to buy the bits.

Wal-Mart has a generic Dremel under the Handi-tools line for $20.00 (but it only comes with the grinding stone type bit),  but you can get a #115 (?) cutting bit and the whiz-wheel attachments for about $5.00 each and the router attachment is only $15.00, I think.

The Dremel will do basic type routering without the attachment and I've used the #115 bit to cut out button holes in formica and flush cut it against the panel.  It comes in useful for lots of non-arcade projects also.

BTW, the #115 bit that I am talking about is like a 1/4 inch diameter barrel with a flat base and serrated (aluminum) teeth.  It will cut with the base (like a drill) or you can use the side teeth to expand a drilled out hole.

[rampy]

I almost forgot the most important tool of all - a case of good beer to bribe a woodworking saavy tool owning friend to come over with tools in tow =P

BTW any thoughts on the square "hole" question

>>>
What tool does one use to make square holes for carriage bolts?  OR am I missing something on how people are fastening their joysticks to their CP?  Or is there some sort of fancy washer with a  square inset that you use?
>>>

Hey tiger heli does the dremel router kit "fit" on the generic wal-mart router --- This weekend I was browsing walmart tools and contemplated the 20 dollar dremel and wondered about the attachments, etc...

Rampy

[Tiger-Heli]

What tool does one use to make square holes for carriage bolts?  OR am I missing something on how people are fastening their joysticks to their CP?  Or is there some sort of fancy washer with a  square inset that you use?

I forgot to mention this earlier.  Basically, it's not critical, you're not really worried about the bolts working loose, the main reason for using carriage bolts (in real arcades) is to prevent people either unscrewing the mounting bolts and breaking the machines, or cutting their hands on the screw heads.

If you have a wood CP, just drill the carriage bolt holes to match the threads, and the nut will "pull" the square part into the hole and lock it in.  If you have plexi or lexan over the CP or a metal CP, drill the lexan out to the diameter of the square part of the bolt.  The bolt will be able to turn, but it shouldn't work loose.  Use a drop of Loc-Tite if you're really worried about it, but I don't think I'd bother.

Some people also mount the joysticks using wood screws from the bottom side, which is another option, although Carriage bolts are more conventional.

Hey tiger heli does the dremel router kit "fit" on the generic wal-mart router --- This weekend I was browsing walmart tools and contemplated the 20 dollar dremel and wondered about the attachments, etc...

I haven't tried it.  I browsed Dremel's site and it "looks" like it should work (?)  BTW, the kit I've seen in the stores is the #565 multipurpose cutting kit, not the true router kit.  I'm not using T-molding, so I've been able to free-hand most stuff.  All the standard Dremel bits work with the Wal-Mart Dremel, though.

[1UP]

I used just 4 tools.

Router.  Definitely.  I have found so many uses for mine that I've hardly touched another tool.  My Ryobi router cost $70 for a router/table combo (it sells for $50 without the table), and it can do so many things that other tools just can't do as easily or as well.  Puts the dremel to shame!  Get a straight cutter bit with a bearing on top, and you can make straight cuts using scrap wood as a guide just as easily as a circular saw, but much cleaner.  It won't chip melamine or laminates.  You can easily make inside cuts (like making a hole for the coin door)  With a slot cutter, you can slot your sides for t-molding in minutes.  Likewise, you can trim laminate FAAAAST!  The only thing I would use a circular saw for is making beveled cuts where two panels join at odd angles, or cutting 2x4s.

Sander.  You don't need an expensive belt sander, an orbital 1/4 sheet sander is plenty, and about a third of the price.  I got my Ryobi for $39.  It vaccuums the dust into a dust bag.  You can get a super smooth finish using a 400 grit paper--it turns particle board into glass!  I used the included coarse grit to finish my edges before applying and cutting the laminate, so the cuts were visually super-clean.  Also good for quickly rounding off corners, planing down the ends of boards that are just a hair too long, sanding for paint prep, stripping paint, etc.

Circular saw just for cutting heavy stuff.  It tends to chip laminates on the topside, no matter what kind of expensive blade you use, so don't use for finishing.  For cutting things that won't show on the outside of the cab.

Drill.  Actually, I have 3--a cheap Black and Decker electric for heavy freehand drilling, a mid range B&D cordless for screwing/light drilling, and a Ryobi drill press ($99) for precision drilling (holes in control panels etc.)  I wouldn't say that all three are necessary, but they give me a lot of flexibility depending on what I need.  A good cordless with a spare battery will probably do ya in most cases.  Might have some difficulty with hole-sawing thru 3/4" stock.

Oh, and clamps!  The best I've found are the Quick Grip clamps.  These have rubber shoes to protect your work, and they clamp and release fast.  Also double as spreaders.  Indispensible.  You might want to get some saw horses too...

One thing I've learned is that having the right tool for the job makes the job 110% easier, cleaner, and safer.

And Ryobi makes damned decent tools at fairly low prices.  

[darkmanx]

one thing that hasnt been mentioned but is extremly important: a t-square, preferably a large one to make sure everything is squared up. all my measurements looked good at first but i didnt cut until i got the square...and im glad i didnt.

[rampy]

that's good advice darkmanx re: the T-square... on an unrelated (to arcade cabinet) topic... I spent about 2 hours hanging a mirror because everytime I measured I got a different number (in order to get the screws/anchors in the wall in the right spot to match the mounting hardware and have it all center/level etc.... A T-square woulda saved me some headaches there....  you'd think i was calculating rocket trajectories the way I penciled the wall to find the coordinates of the screw placements... =P

*Shrug*

[Tiger-Heli]

I spent about 2 hours hanging a mirror because everytime I measured I got a different number

That reminded me of something else!  I'm terrible at working from measurements also.  What I did is lay my panel design out in M$oft Word and then I can just print out the template, place it on the panel, punch through it with a pin or brad, and have all the button centers, joystick bolt locations laid out perfectly.

Any CAD program of the ICPD (Internet Control Panel Designer) could be used to produce the template as well.

[Lilwolf]

CLAMPS (or friends)  The Quickclamps that 1up mentioned are GREAT!

Consider getting two drills for your home.  You will use them both.  A good cordless and a cheap plugin.  Why?  partical board seems to do MUCH better if you predrill holes before using screws.  You keep one with a screwdriver tip and one with a drill bit.

Routers are GREAT for wood control panels.  Allows you get sink in your joystick.  I got mine (ryob) for 34 bucks at wallmart.   Also good for tmolding I hear... I haven't done the tmolding yet.

Circular saw and the jigsaw are both needed.  You can get away from the jigsaw with the router, but not really...  You will use them both often in other projects also.  Good investment.  BTW, both are cheap.

Sander is what I want next.  

[hyiu]

although I'm not very good at wood working, I do love power tools... heee hee....    

My personal opinion is:
do not buy cordless tools if you are not using it frequently... I don't use my tools often, and when I need it, I do not plan ahead the night before and charge it first... I use it and then put it away... so, cordless tools might be a little more convinent when working (without a cord dangling in the back...) but as long as you remember to swing it aside and not try to cut the cord with the tool on the way, it is good enough... (a 50 ft extnesion cord will help... of coruse...)
the fact that it will always have power when plugged and do need to remember to charge is more important for me...

I'm currently building a cab myself.... and you'll need a drill... that is for drilling button/joystick holes, pre-drill screw holes, and also doubles as a power screw driver....

as for saw, I do have BOTH jigsaw and circular saw....

I found a jigsaw more useful in most times....
people said you cannot have straight cuts with jigsaws....
that is not true.... I spend an extra $15... I bought a 4 ft metal ruler and 2 clamps.... then I do my measurements.... then I put the ruler there and clamp it on the wood.... and use it as a guide to saw... and the jigsaw makes PERFECT cuts....

the ONLY time jigsaw cannot cut straight is when you try to cut some tiny bits along the side...... (like if you want to cut 1/4 out on the side...) cos the saw is too close to the edge and it might tilt and the cut is not perfectly square.... (that is the only time I have to use circular saw....)

and yes... I also has a dremel tool..... its been helpful so far... but it gets hot pretty quick.....so, I've been trying to avoid extended uses of it..... I have bought the bit to make the t-molding slot from dremel but has not done it yet....

I think the power drill and the jigsaw are useful and definitely worthwhile to have if you are handy.... dremel is more on some smaller projects....

--------------------

I'm not trying to be anal...... but I really do not like snaaake suggesting buying tools, finish project, and return.....

everyone has a budget to work on.... some is more lucky and has a bigger budget... some has less.... but that does not mean you can "cheat" like that...... if you really want to buy and turns out that it really doesn't work for you, of course, by all means return it.... but if you have no intention of keeping it from the beginning, go renting for less.... but don't be a jerk, buy it, use it and then return it....

I don't really want to say this, but snaaake has suggested this several times on different msgs... and it just bothers me, cos I think the people on this board are all nice helpful people and I would like the msgs / suggestions to show that we're also ethical.....  sorry if I offended anyone....
(again... just my personal opinion....)

[Tiger-Heli]

I'm not trying to be anal...... but I really do not like snaaake suggesting buying tools, finish project, and return.....

I interpreted that as a joke or sarcasm on Snaaake's part, but I agree with you that it's not a good thing to do.

I wasn't offended at all by your comments.

[rampy]

My brother-in-law dropped off a b & D 3/4 hp router so I'm saved... (cept I'll need to buy appropriate bits)

Although he gave me the impression that caution and/or guide boards were vital to the routing process... i.e. the router can really get away from you and you could accidently route all over the place accidently (no really.. i wanted the "S" design carved into the top of my control panel =P " )

So...  any links to howto's on using a wood router... I think I get how'd do the t-molding groove if I had the appropriate bit... but i'm curious as to how to route out the wood "square" to mount the joysticks...

anyways... thanks again for any general or arcade specific router usage guides.

Signed - currently has 10 fingers

rampy

[1UP]

So...  any links to howto's on using a wood router... I think I get how'd do the t-molding groove if I had the appropriate bit... but i'm curious as to how to route out the wood "square" to mount the joysticks...

No links, but some advice.  First, use both hands!  Make sure the bit is not touching the wood when you start the router--it will jump and kick a nice gouge in your finished edge!    Start it,  push it into the wood so that the cutting edge is biting into the wood (it should be spinning clockwise, so cut your outside edges counter-clockwise) then when you finish your cut, pull the router away from the wood a little, and stop it.  Always put your guide board on the side of the wood that you want to keep, so that the router can't do much damage if it does kickback.

If you're laminating, cut your sides first, sand edges to a clean, smooth finish, laminate it, then use a laminate (or flush) cutter with a bearing on bottom to follow the edges of the wood exactly.  Keep your bearing clean of contact cement that may build up and affect the smoothness of the cut.  Watch out for kickback near corners where there's a lot of excess laminate hanging down, the router likes to catch on it!


If you get a slot cutter for the molding, make sure it's on the right way (so that the cutting edges will go clockwise when the bit is facing down) or you might not get it to do much cutting.  Also, make sure it's a 1/16" cutter.  I picked up one I thought was the right size, but when I slotted and went to insert the t-mold, it just fell out because the slot was too big (only then did I see the 5/32" on the package!!  Now I have to fill the edges with 1/8" wood strips, and slot it again! )  If the t-mold doesn't quite fit in, you can always widen the slot slightly by adjusting the depth setting.

To make sharp corners, you'll have to make the cut with the router, then chisel or sand off the round corners--there's no other way (unless you have a really small router bit!)

And wear some gloves, goggles, and a dust mask!  That thing will pelt you with jagged sawdust, especially when you're cutting the t-mold slots--feels like your flesh is being sandblasted!  Nothing's worse than a mouthful of wood!  GAH!!  

[hyiu]

Hi snaaake.... didn't mean to be an a**.....

just that I think there is a good percentage of ppl here are teenagers...... and if they see us suggesting, and if they think we are doing that, they will think its a good option to save $$....

(I think this is a VERY GOOD and HELPFUL site and with all kinds of info.... just also want to keep it ethical and professional....)

anyway.... more than enough said....  
sorry that I jumped the gun on your joke....
no hard feelings... ok ??
 

[neuromancer]

there is no way you need a $100 drill. my $24 drill got it done flawlessly.

He asked specifically about tools that are generally usefull for other home projects. I doubt you can use your $24 drill to drive 3.5" screws into pressure treated pine, (let alone oak beams), or drill 3/8 inch holes into concrete.

I use my cordless drill more than all my other tools combined. Second is a Sawzall, followed in order by Circular saw, table saw, jigsaw, palm sander, router.

Pawn shops are a great source for discount priced tools. I got my Sawzall for about half what it would cost new.

Bob
South Carolina