Zathras' Jukebox Project - Completed! 7/2 (pics)

[Zathras]

Last time I "announced" my project well into the process of building it.  Long after the ordering, planning, etc so I wasn't able to really use the board for suggestions like it was intended for.  

So this time I am announcing at the very VERY beginning of the project and hopefully updating continually throughout the process.  Please chime in with suggestions, comments, "that's a stupid way of doing it"s, etc etc

My wife and I have just sold our first house and have another one waiting in the wings that will have a nice sized rec room that will be a great home for my arcade cabinets (2 at the moment) and hopefully soon after move-in a pool table.

I've decided it would be nice to have a standalone jukebox cabinet for continual music when people are playing games.

I want it to be considerably smaller than a cabinet and to look like a jukebox - all lit up and a rounded top.   Does anyone have any experience with PC case mod lights - would that be a good place to look for things (never messed w/ them myself)?

I am running Virtual Music Jukebox at the moment and like it so I will continue with that.  It can use a 10 key input, mouse, joystick or touchscreen so I've got a LOT of control options to consider.  I want to keep it as simple as possible though.

It should sound good but doesn't have to be audiophile quality since it will be background music (and its going to be playing MP3s anyway).


So the first big question I have is:
======================================
What would be the best way to make a rounded top?  I'm used to working w/ MDF but the only way I've thought of would be to glue together strips to make a hexagon and then sand it round.   Any other thoughts/suggestions?  Or should I really consider something other than MDF?


Thanks!

[Pyro]

One way to make curves in an otherwise straight piece of wood is to cut saw kerfs (the space left over after a saw blade makes a cut in material) in the back of the piece of wood perpendicular to the way you want it to curve. The kerf cuts don't go all the way through the material. The space left by the cuts allows the wood to bend. A picture of a type of kerf bending can be seen here:

http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodmag/152/images/152kerfbendingbg.jpg

I hope this helps, and makes a little bit of sense at least!

Pyro

[Zathras]

Certainly it does make sense - kinda like how you trim T-moulding to take a corner.

I'm thinking I might consider building it out of real wood and staining it (since that one in the VMJ jukebox gallery looks so nice).

[hyiu]

I have read bending wood takes skill....
(I mean I don't have much... although I can make straight cuts and stuffs and my cab is coming together...)

ok.... for a curved top.... I have seen an option that you might be able to consider... someone used a "hard board" in the front of a cab.. (joust cab ) and he wants to extends his front of the CP so that it fits a TBall...

he used a hard board, simply bends it... and painted it... looked really nice in the pics.... (well... definitely better than anything I have done....) but sometimes, you know pics and the real thing will have a little difference.. and different people have different standards... so.. guarantee if that is what you want... but definitely consider it...

if all you want is a curved top.... that could be a easier solution...

because I think I have read in some article... for you to bend wood... (I mean... real pieces of wood...) you'll need to steam it... and bend it.. and have some special equipment for it to bent evenly....

I'm sure that joust cab (if its a joust cab) with the curve front has a thread in this project announcement forum....

see if you can dig it out.... if not, let me know and I'll try to dig it out for you...

[Zathras]

Another option to consider I guess would be to "fake it" have the back be boxy and then have a false front that extends beyond the "box" far enough to hide it.  I would term that the "fireworks store" solution (every fireworks store I've seen on the interstates around here look like fancy huge buildings but if you turn around once you pass them they are really just double wide trailers behind the front).


Either that or I wonder if there would be any sort of pre curved surface to work with.

[hyiu]

http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=8798

this is one of them....

if I remember right.... there should be another guy who does a CP with a sharper curve....

let me know if I'm thinking right...

you want a round top... which means... assuming the CP is a box itself... you're holding the CP vertical... and that round edge is on the top.... that's the effect you want... right ??...

using I believe "hard board" with a few guiding pieces (like what this guy does...) you should be able to do it easier than actually have to bend wood....
and after painting.... it should look good....

[Zathras]

Thanks - that looks like a great solution for a rounded top and probably cheap too.

I suppose if you got real fancy you could route a groove for it to slide in too.

[Zathras]

Ok I just played around w/ controlling VMJ with the keyboard and I think I will need the following controls on the panel:


Right/Left arrows - to slide trays
http://www.happcontrols.com/pushbuttons/710004tx.htm

12 keypad - actually
part SWT1068 at bgmicro.com is much cheaper and non-matrixed
 
The $ info isn't working at the moment - any other suggestions or anyone know how much they run?

4 Rectangular Buttons - for libraries (labled Rock, Alternative, etc)
http://www.happcontrols.com/pushbuttons/5700045x.htm

I can use the * and # buttons on the keypad for Replay and Skip and maybe shifted functions for random and mute maybe (or It will just randomly play after a while

I want to work in a volume knob hidden somewhere.


So next I will have to start thinking about the amplification/speaker ideas.

I liked Taxi_Cabs idea of using gutter covers as speaker grills/kickplate.  I remember that Lowes here had some pretty interesting perforated metal sheets.  If I wanted to get really fancy I could do some cut outs w/ a scroll saw in the front, round the edges with a router, paint and then put the perforated metal behind that for a cool look... hmmm perhaps a certain famous mouse shillouette that is on my Tomorrowland Cab  

Either that or just plain ol grill cloth


As far as amplification I do think I would like something a little more powerful than a hacked pc speaker amp.  

I am going to have a bunch of speakers left over in the move in (going to switch to some smaller wall/ceiling mounted ones for the HT system) so I could just stick a couple on a shelf inside and be done with that - would there be any problem with doing that that you could think of?  Also should I just point them out the front/to the side/angled?

Thanks!

Edit:
Just made my first purchase for the new cab - a Realistic SA-150 stereo amp from eBay - 19.99 BIN w/ $6 shipping.  



Edit2: - instead of bumping it when I add a small  idea I'm going to edit the last post
I've decided to also add in an XM pcr to it since they are so cheap these days (and I'm addicted to XM radio) - the controls i'm looking at at the moment should be able to control it fine.  That way I don't have to load in holiday music/etc. or if people come over who aren't a fan of my music I can just stick it on the appropriate XM channel.

[Zathras]

Well after thinking the rounded top idea through I just don't think I'm good enough w/ woodworking yet to have it turn out half way decent.

So a slight change in design is in order - after looking at some jukeboxes I think I may base the shape/style off of the Vivo jukebox.
It is more of a CP-less cabinet shape.  I am thinking I could make a bezel/marqee to fit the monitor well and have it be lit up nicely.  Also some chrome t-moulding would add some shine.


I picked up a monitor at a garage sale this last weekend for $5 and spraypainted the bezel black.

Still waiting on the amplifier to show up... apparently UPS has lost it.  Here's hoping they find it quick as we are moving in 10 days...

----
Well the amp is lost  - ups is still just saying "billing information received" so I don't know who to believe... the seller has been returning my emails within 20 minutes and they are apologetic which is good.  They said they would refund my $ if it isn't here by tomorrow...  

[Zathras]

Ok things are slowly calming down with the move so I've started picking up things for the project again.

The amp never showed up and they credited me back the $.  It's a shame but It will give me an opportunity to rethink how I will do most everything.

I've gotten a KeyWiz Max to try one out (used an optipac in my cab). I am amazed at how quick it got here - even though apparently I was smoking something when I was putting the address in and used a combination of the new and old  

I've ordered all the buttons so they should be arriving shortly also.

I'm going to try and ressurrect an old PC to use (I think it is 800 MHZ).  Wireless networking isn't working too well in the new house so I may drop the wireless streaming idea and use a USB HD enclosure (That I already have) to store/add MP3s.


Well let me go ahead and start a cost running total:
===============================
Monitor: $5
12 key numberpad: $11
Buttons: $40
Key Wiz Max: $42

Total so far: $98

Left to buy
==========
speakers/amplification
lighting(?)
silver t-molding

[Santoro]

I've decided to also add in an XM pcr to it since they are so cheap these days (and I'm addicted to XM radio) - the controls i'm looking at at the moment should be able to control it fine.  That way I don't have to load in holiday music/etc. or if people come over who aren't a fan of my music I can just stick it on the appropriate XM channel.

I LOVE XM!

(The yelling is intentional!)

[Zathras]

It was a GOOD day!  A co-worker just came by and asked if anyone needed any old computer hardware - so I went to see what he had and picked up:

An Asus Motherboard complete w/ a k6 400Mhz processor and 128 MB
A 40 gig segate barracuda
a 30 gig WD drive
and a nice Saitek flight joystick

So I'll see how the 400 works w/ VMJ but even if it doesn't cooperate (400 is the minimum requirement) another 70 gig for music is a good thing

[Zathras]

Ok have just about everything purchased and will start the final design stage soon.

I traded for a smaller case to use for my old pc (it was in a FULL tower) so I got the PC up and running for it this weekend.  It runs very smoothly on a 600 MHZ as long as you keep the cover art size reasonable.

I set it up on a tray table and had it running through some old pc speakers and it was an interesting test of theory.  Controls will be fine w/ just arrows, keypad and genre buttons.

One thing that really bothered me once I took a good look at it was the floor real estate it would take up because of the monitor.    Switching to a LCD would allow me to cut the depth more than half (just slightly wider than the width of the case).

So I began the hunt for a good deal on an LCD - Circuit City is clearancing out a Provision flat panel monitor for 220 after rebate so that is the clear winner at the moment.

Also I was switching back and forth between doing another PC speaker amp hack but decided to go for a little more power and slightly better quality speakers.

So add to the list:

Case/power supply for PC - traded for
Yet another SA-150 amp from ebay - 29 shipped (hope this one comes)
Dayton in wall speakers - $49 (I will probably paint them black)
Chrome t-molding - $20
XM PCR - $50
Flat panel monitor $180 after rebate (at circuit city they have a LCD monitor for $299 - 70 rebate - I ordered it online for pickup and when I picked it up they said the instore price was 249 so they credited me back the $50 so if they honor the rebate it will be a VERY good deal...)


So now onto design!

[Bumblebounces]

Sounds like your project is really moving along.  I have been considering turning a 133MHz laptop into a "hang it on the wall" jukebox but the hardrive in it is so small that it just barely holds an operating system like Win 2K much less holding 10 gigs of mp3's.  If I could find a great price on a 30-60GB laptop drive, I might just consider moving forward.  The only other thing that bothers me is the low spec of the CPU.  I think it would be fine for a program like WinAmp but all the cool juke apps like VMJ want at least a little beefier processor than a lowly 133 with 80MB ram.  Still keeping the dream alive, but just barely.

God luck on your quest and keep us all in the loop.

Bumble

[GadgetGeek]

Sounds like your project is really moving along.  I have been considering turning a 133MHz laptop into a "hang it on the wall" jukebox but the hardrive in it is so small that it just barely holds an operating system like Win 2K much less holding 10 gigs of mp3's.  

Wireless (or wired) network to a server for your mp3s.

[hyiu]

also... I have seen 80G HD cost $40 after rebates...

that is not too bad......

[Bumblebounces]

also... I have seen 80G HD cost $40 after rebates...

that is not too bad......

Are you sure that price is for a laptop sized 80gig?  I agree that you could get a full size PC HD for about that after rebates but a laptop drive is usually another matter.

Wireless (or wired) network to a server for your mp3s.

GadgetGeek-  The network idea had occurred to me but we are talking about a Pentium I 133MHz CPU with only 80 MB ram.  Just a little concerned about network performance.  Transferring multi-megabyte files with such a low spec machine could be a slow process.  Maybe I will download VMJ, install it and have a go at seeing what it works like.

What the hell...  The wife is out of town scrapbooking this weekend.  Why the hell not?

Thanks for the inspiration, guys.  I'll let you know if it works out.

Bumble

[Zathras]

Well I've been racking my brain over and over and over about how to finally design the cab itself.

I have been wanting desparately to keep away from the "generic black box" look and do something unique that hasn't been attempted yet.  

I was also thinking about how to work it into the general Disney theme of the room (as I've stated many a time my wife and I are Walt Disney World addicts).   Add to all that I wanted to keep things relatively simple in design.

The speakers I ordered were rectangular and I was planning on painting them black to blend in but then I started thinking how I could use their existing shape/color in a cab to save a step.  So I was thinking  if I were to turn them sideways they could make interesting lights and I could do something like Taxi_cabs taxicab - but it had been done.  

So I was doodling away and just put the speakers on the front of a box and thought about other colors beside black....

maybe red.....(?)....

hmmm two white rectangles on red.....

That would kinda look like . . . . .  pants.

Pants?


a certain mouses pants that is...

It then came to me in a flash - A highly sylized cubist rendition of everyones favorite mouse.  

So I present to you (in a quick Paint Shop Pro sketch I did in the last 10 minutes just to test the concept) the
Mickey Juke




Also the "feet" will solve the problem of a narrow cab (was thinking I might have to attach it to the wall or something to keep it from tipping)

So what do you think?

[GadgetGeek]

It doesn't show in the doodle, but I assume the speakers will be mounted into boxes that look like ears?  Round speakers off of each of the top corners would look great as part of a certain mr mouse.  And I assume the power cord will be his tail?

[Zathras]

Actually the speakers are the white pants "buttons" - I am using white rectangular in-wall speakers.  

[AlanS17]

You can get a rounded top that is fairly durable through "hardboard". That's how I got the rounded front of my control panel on my arcade machine. It's similar to the material that pegboard is made from except it has no holes in it and has a smooth surface. It worked very well for me. I bet it would work well in this situation, too, if your heart is still set on a rounded top.

[Bumblebounces]

Mickey Juke....  LOL!  That's cool.  I know your speakers are the white rectangles but I think the idea of the round black speakers being the ears is great.  You should consider putting a "Mickey head" on the cab, even if the ears are not speakers.

On a sad note...  I find the performace of my 133 MHz laptop to be inadequate to run VMJ or any of the jukebox programs I tried.  They did work but the animations were slow, the program took a long while to execute many of the commands and the 133 just didn't have the "umphf" needed to stream the mp3's over the network (if I put the mp3 on the laptop hard drive, VMJ played it fine).  But after playing with VMJ on my desktop machine, I find it's operation is perfect and I am now planning to build the jukebox out of a larger computer with an inexpensive 15" LCD monitor.  They go on sale all the time.  Now all I need is the bucks to make this happen...

Bumble

[Zathras]

Sorry to hear it didn't work on the 133 - but just FYI it runs completely smooth on a 600mhz.  FYI if you can't get one cheap/free locally  you can get a barebones 600 system from computersurplusoutlet.com for under $75 shipped.  I would up the memory a bit from that but it even has video sound and lan.


I'll think about the ears - it would be cool. but the place I'm thinking of putting it would be incompatable w/ ears.  I could always build it and add the head portion later.  or just  make the head 2d and hang it on the wall behind it... hmmm

well I thought I was having some major computer problems but after messing with it for hours I finally found out it was a problem with easy cd-da extractor and not the pc.  Also for some reason it is giving me error messages in Dutch suddenly (everything else in english) oh well it adds an international flair to the juke

well all my packages have come in - the little realistic amp will work really good.  XMPCR is neat.

So now the latest problems encountered.

I hooked up the in wall speakers to the amp and they sounded good - but whenever I got to louder volumes they began to bottom out a bit.  I'm sure it will improve with break in but I remembered I had a small passive sub from an old satellite system in the attic.  I hooked that in and it took care of that problem.

But now bass is off the chart.  I was able to go into advanced under the volume control and cut the bass down for VMJ - but that doesn't effect the line in (which is what the xm PCR uses).  So VMJ sounds fine but then XM is boomy.  

I looked and there is a companion equalizer available cheap fot the realistic amp so I went ahead and bought one on ebay (>30 shipped).  So what i'm going to do is go back into volume and crank up the bass for VMJ so it is about equal to xm and then cut the bass out  with the EQ so everything is equal.

Now for the main problem I've been fighting today - I can't get either VMJ or several different xm applications to cooperate with Howards wrapper.  VMJ works fine w/ it on my cab and I copied the way it is done exactly - but it just doesn't cooperate on the 98 machine.  I am pretty sure it is a focus issue because if I shrink the app and click in the black space I can then hit esc and kill it.



Well now that I have the look and all the pieces I can finalize the non-head portion of the cab.  If I get some time I'll put that on paper tomorrow and maybe start on some cutting this week.

[Zathras]

Lots of things to update today.

Picked up a Griffin Powermate volume control over lunch today and I can already tell it will be my favorite part of the cab.  It is a usb volume knob that mutes when you  press it in.  I was thinking of mounting it prior to purchasing it but after playing around with it I think it will work best just sitting on the top and that way for parties etc I can set the volume and hide the knob.

I've gotten several parts cut and the general layout of the control panel done.  I am winging it since it is a pretty easy shape - it looks like it should go together quickly once everything is cut.

I picked up a couple of pre-cut round pieces to get an idea how they might look as ears....

Now as I said before I was having nightmares of getting vmj and the xmpcr application working with howards wrapper  etc.  I finally got vmj working however never got the xm side of things working.

So I thought about alternate ways of launching the programs and I found hotkey plus.  It is designed to launch programs from keypresses.

So what I'm thinking of is having a the desktop devoid of icons and no explorer bar with a screen with arrows saying press this key for XM and this key for VMJ.  As far as exiting I think I'll have a couple of open inputs on the encoder so I am thinking of trying to hook one up as alt and one as f4 (if possible - can you program function keys in? I dont see why not). and hook them up to the same button if it will work - if not two separate ones and I'll explain its for security reasons so you don't exit by mistake.

The problem with this method is that you could open both programs but worst case you could just close both than reopen.

Any thoughts on this method?  I think i'm going to put up a post in the software forum since it is an idea I hadn't seen before...

[Tiger-Heli]

On a sad note...  I find the performace of my 133 MHz laptop to be inadequate to run VMJ or any of the jukebox programs I tried. Now all I need is the bucks to make this happen...
Bumble

Bumble, did you try Arcade Jukebox 8 from http://home.att.net/~mark.schwartz/ I haven't used it and couldn't see any spec requirements for it, but this thread reminded me of it, and it might save you some $$$ if the PC can run it.

[Zathras]

As I was driving to work today I was thinking about the ears and that the precut circles they had cheap at Home Depot were a bit small  in relation.

So I was thinking to myself: "hmmm black circles that would fit into a jukebox theme..."

I kept both hands on the wheel and mentally bonked myself in the forehead for not thinking of it sooner - RECORDS!

[Tiger-Heli]