A few questions...

[smaxdot]

Hey guys,

I've been lurking here for about two weeks now and have read a slew of the threads (current and archived).  This message board really seems to have a lot of knowledgeable and helpful folks, so I thought I'd take a stab and post a few questions I have.  I'll be upfront with you, I'm a relative MAME newbie (go easy on me , looking to build my first cabinet in the next few months.

At any rate, I'm learning a lot but still have some questions.  Hope it's appropriate for me to just fire them off here.  Without further ado, here goes...

1) I'd rather not use an Arcade monitor, and was going to use a PC monitor.  However, the bigger display that one can get with a TV (for a lot less than a PC monitor) is pushing me in this direction.  I've read a lot about this subject, and it's clear that S-video needs to be involved here (I'm not even going to attempt a component connection!).  I'd like to get a "Built by ATI" Radeon 7500 (or greater) video card with S-video out.  My question though, is this: Would the use of a scan converter in between the TV and video card improve the display any?  Or, is the S-video input from the TV to the ATI card sufficient?  

2) Related to #1, is anyone here using a TV for their display and very happy with the quality?  I've read a number of posts where people say they're using TV's, but not too many that confirm they're happy with the results!  Thanks.

3) Also related to this whole TV thing....can anyone recommend a good 24" or 25" TV to use?  I may go 27", but not sure if my cabinet will be able to fit it.  

4) Any good sources to purchase bezels?  How about side art?

5) I'm not Mr. Handy, so I was thinking of buying a cabinet to use..preferably one that is relatively empty since I don't care about the monitor, PCB, etc..  Any good sources in New Jersey to purchase a cabinet like this?  

I apologize in advance if some of these questions are basic or have been covered.  I definitely did search the archives, but I may have missed something.

Thanks,

- Dave  

 

[JesterDEV]

1) I'd rather not use an Arcade monitor, and was going to use a PC monitor.  However, the bigger display that one can get with a TV (for a lot less than a PC monitor) is pushing me in this direction.  I've read a lot about this subject, and it's clear that S-video needs to be involved here (I'm not even going to attempt a component connection!).  I'd like to get a "Built by ATI" Radeon 7500 (or greater) video card with S-video out.  My question though, is this: Would the use of a scan converter in between the TV and video card improve the display any?  Or, is the S-video input from the TV to the ATI card sufficient?  

I use a 29" TV in my cab. It's composite mode however it looks quite good. I use a Geforce4 and recommend it more then the ATI (I'll explain in a moment). I also have a act labs lightgun which has a s-video to composite converter so straight composite mode may not look all that well. But these converters can be had to on the net for cheap. I had a Flatscreen S-Video TV installed but the lightgun wont shoot at the bottom three inches of the screen, which seems to be a common problem with flat screen TV's. If you go the flat screen route I suggest an APEX which seem to be cheaper then others and are good quality (mine was $167 for a 24" but it was a out of box deal).

I tried my ATI 7500 in my cab and it just looked really REALLY bad. I don't know why, but it did. This was on both TV's. Perhaps I just needed to change a setting or something.. Anyway the Geforce4 card works great with both TV's. In any case you should increase the flicker rate slightly to make the picture a little more clear, and if using composite with a converter you need to change the settings to composite or it will look really blurry.

2) Related to #1, is anyone here using a TV for their display and very happy with the quality?  I've read a number of posts where people say they're using TV's, but not too many that confirm they're happy with the results!  Thanks.

The quality is much better on the PC or Arcade monitor for reading text on your OS(this can be fixed by increasing the font size). But when playing games I think the TV just looks better.

4) Any good sources to purchase bezels?  How about side art?

Allot of us just make our own. I used Paint Shop Pro and had it printed out at Kinko's. The darker the background the better. Otherwise the light from the back will shine through the whole thing.

[fredster]

I have a big PC monitor I really like in my cab. It's great. It's clear, and it was simple to hook up.  I have another system that has a 27" sanyo TV with SVideo out, and it's good for playing games.  It sucks for anything else.  It's hard to read the text no matter what I do to it.

I used a geoforce card because it was cheap. I got it at the computer show.  I got the TV at the spirtual and geographical center of the universe, Walmart.  They have those component converters from about $15.00 in the wiring section by the CD's.

I don't have the lightgun for the TV, but I have it for the PC monitor.  It's okay. I think it flashes more than a regular arcade gun.  

Bezels are always a problem.  You can order them at www.happcontrols.com or www.wicothesource.com.  There's an excelent section in some thread here called $2 bezel.  You might want to try that, you can make custom colors that way and it's not that challenging.  A bezel for a TV would cost well over $35 and shipping.

For Art, there are lots of places. Check the artwork section here.  I never tried Kinkos.  I printed most of my stuff out with sticker paper you get at office depot.  It's more fun that way to me, but I like bumper stickers.

I have tried building cabs, I built two of them.  One an upright I never really finished and a cocktail I never really finished.  I made two other mame machines out of cabs I got at auctions.  That's the best place to find dead cabs.  Check www.gameroommagazine.com then show dates for the locals near you.  Bring your cash and a pickup truck with plenty of straps.

Trust me, it's easier to take a dead stipped cab and convert it than building one.  It's all there and you can get a pretty decent one for under $30 if you are lucky.  It costs a lot of money just for the tooling to build one.  The tool to cut the T-molding is over $35 shipped.  Not to mention all the little pieces you need.

Ebay is a great place to get buttons and joysticks.  

The important thing is that you are satisfied.  Some people are pretty picky about their cabs, and proud of the work they put into them.  If you are like that you will get a great deal of satisfaction from building.  But if you are not handy it could be a very frustrating experience.

If you read the examples pages you can determine pretty quickly that some people should not be allowed to use power tools.  It takes some skill to map it all out and several weeks to finish it.  

I thought the $20 bucks I paid for the dead cab and the afternoon I spent painting it was much better than looking at 1/2 finished cabs laying around.

Good luck and welcome to the wonderful world of mame.

[krick]

Have you considered buying a working arcade machine and "mame-ing" it?

Don't get me wrong, building your own cabinet can be very rewarding and it's the whole point of this site.   I just wanted to present another possibility that may not have crossed your mind.

I got into the whole "byoac scene" back in December.  At first I wanted to make my own cabinet but when I started adding up the cost of all the parts involved and all the tools I would need and didn't own, I started to think that maybe I should look at converting an existing machine.

So in January, I went to an amusement auction (conveniently about 4 miles from my house) "just to look".  I ended up coming home with a working machine with a bright 25" monitor and an oversized control panel for $250.  It has a Capcom CPS2 + GigaWing board in it that I could probably sell for about $100 or so on eBay if I wanted to reclaim some of my purchase price.

There's a pic here if you're interested...
http://www.3feetunder.com/krick/mame/gigawing.jpg

So to get it up and running with mame, I bought a J-PAC and an ArcadeVGA card from Ultimarc.   I was playing games in my cabinet in under an hour.

I have since hacked a pair of PC speakers for sound and added a few buttons to the control panel so I can play Mortal Kombat 3.

Still on my todo list is painting the ugly blue sides of the cabinet and creating a new control panel that incorporates 2 more joysticks (for Smash TV) and 1 or 2 trackballs for marble madness and centipede.

Whatever you end up doing, make sure you keep us apprised of your progress, and post lots of pictures.  We love pictures.

...
Krick

[mahuti]

Any good sources to purchase bezels?

[smaxdot]

I got the TV at the spirtual and geographical center of the universe, Walmart.  They have those component converters from about $15.00 in the wiring section by the CD's.

Hmm, do you have a link you can post to one of these component converters?  Does it convert S-video to component?  Or composite to component?  

I made two other mame machines out of cabs I got at auctions.  That's the best place to find dead cabs.  Check www.gameroommagazine.com then show dates for the locals near you.  Bring your cash and a pickup truck with plenty of straps.

Yes, I am thinking of going to the US Amusements Auction on May 1st in Cherry Hill, NJ.  Anyone have any experience with the US Amusements auctions?  

[krick]

Yes, I am thinking of going to the US Amusements Auction on May 1st in Cherry Hill, NJ.  Anyone have any experience with the US Amusements auctions?  

Yep.  I bought my cabinet at a US Amusements Auction on January 31 at that location.  It's about 4 miles from my house.   I'd be glad to meet up with you before the auction and go with you if you'd like.  I'm not an expert by any means and I don't have a truck to help you transport your booty (if you end up buying), but I am good company.

[cdbrown]

I went for a 27" Diamond brand S-video TV.  Apparantly these are made by mitsubishi electrical.  I wanted the screen to be big and this was the best value for money.  Playing games on the TV screen is great.  The graphics are all pixelated just like in the arcade.  But trying to use it in windows is a nightmare.  So in the near future I'm hoping to be able to get a real front end up and running so I don't need to strain to see the text in mame32.  My card is a sapphire radeon 8500LE which is powered by ATI.  Made sure I have the latest drivers and make the settings to suit your TV type (for me PAL).

[Tiger-Heli]

2) Related to #1, is anyone here using a TV for their display and very happy with the quality?  I've read a number of posts where people say they're using TV's, but not too many that confirm they're happy with the results!  Thanks.

Check http://www.oscarcontrols.com/monitors.shtml if you haven't already.  Many people prefer the pixellated look of a TV.  Personally, I like a PC monitor, but I don't like scanlines in MAME either - .

4) Any good sources to purchase bezels?

Recommend making your own, but I am doing a desktop controller, so not speaking from experience.

 How about side art?

Lots of members recommend this site - http://www.classicarcadegrafix.com/mamegfx_sideart.htm

Also
http://www.arcadeshop.com/parts.htm#Graphics

Also http://www.arcaderenovations.com/store/customer/home.php?cat=5

Found some reviews here -
http://www.arcaderestoration.com/index.asp?OPT=3&DATA=4292&CBT=441

Again, no personal experience with any of these.

5) I'm not Mr. Handy, so I was thinking of buying a cabinet to use..preferably one that is relatively empty since I don't care about the monitor, PCB, etc..  Any good sources in New Jersey to purchase a cabinet like this?  

Good idea, although as Krick said, I would hold up on a TV and graphics card (and side art, for that matter) until you get the cab in that case.  You might find a cab with a very good arcade monitor and not need to worry about a TV or PC monitor, and that would also affect your video card choices as well.

BTW, you covered a lot of topics, and I tend to mainly follow this forum, but there are artwork and monitor/video forums which might have better answers for more specific questions.

(If you need more specific info later on . . .)

[PaulG]

I have a tv with s-video and I GREATLY prefer it over a computer monitor.  The vector games may look slightly better on a monitor, but it's not worth the sacrafice for everything else.

For best quality, make your game resolutions a universal 640*480.  And if it's dedicated MAME machine, set the desktop resolution to 800*600 so the text is easier to read in the MAME interface.

P.S.  You can right-click on the MAME application and under properties set MAME to run in 640*480, but after you've run a single game and exit, it reverts back to the desktop resolution for the MAME interface.  You can close and reopen if you must have the inteface at the ever readable 640*480 though.

Edit:  I'm not a fan of scanlines and on a good tv this isn't really an issue (640*480).  The reason the tv is superior to the computer monitor is the colors bleed and the picture isn't so harsh.

[Lilwolf]

Reasons why ATI is USUALLY better then NVidias..

NVidia doesn't make video cards.  They make video card chips.  Each customer of theirs puts whatever TV-out chip they want.  Some good some bad.

ATI is now is the same boat... "Built by ATI" will always be good.  "Powered by ATI" go back / forth.  Sapphire is the same company that physically builds ATI's so they are usually good also.

Consider sticking with the original arcade monitor if you have one.  For 80 bucks or so you have the arcadeVGA and your done.  You WILL have better output then you could possibly get with SVid...  

Also.. bigger isn't always better.  Robotron is better on a 19" then a 25" or 27"... why?  You can see the entire screen easier without moving your head.  Better for the zen-twitch playing...

Last...

Whatever you choose will be find...  As long as you don't have a real arcade next to it to compare to  

[kahlid74]

I got my 27 inch tv from circuit city for 180 bucks, with S-video.  They have a newer model fo the TV I got that has a width of 26.2 inches.  Arcade monitor is always going to be better quality, but the tv feel is just one of a kind.

There is a difference in cards, as far as video quality out.  So just be sure you get one people recommend.

[Lilwolf]

btw, about scan converters..

depends on the price your willing to pay.  Some scan converters will make a composite TV look AMAZING...  Some will make a SVid look like crap.  

basically... if it cost less then 100, you will probably get better results from a video card.  

If you find a used Scan converter on ebay that was originally used in TV studeos... you are beyond lucky!

[krick]

What happened to smaxdot?

[DrewKaree]

This message board really seems to have a lot of knowledgeable and helpful folks

They are, but a tip for you and for anyone else reading this, if your subject line that shows up on the thread list is more descriptive, you'll almost certainly get more pointed (and usually helpful) answers to aid you.  Not ragging on you, just did the same thing you did and noticed through A LOT of threads that this is a common malady

S-video needs to be involved here (I'm not even going to attempt a component connection!)

for the size TV you're looking for, I believe component inputs, if not RARE as heck, will jack up the price a BUNCH!

I'd like to get a "Built by ATI" Radeon 7500 (or greater) video card with S-video out.

From what I've read, you'll be better off  with GeForce or a newer model ATI card.  Something to do with driver issues and fixes for them.  Check out www.pricewatch.com for decent prices on 'em.  Once you find a good price on a card you think you'll like, Google it for reviews to help you decide if you wanna go with that card.

Scan converters....dunno about 'em, don't wanna lead you astray.

2)I've read a number of posts where people say they're using TV's, but not too many that confirm they're happy with the results!

I think you'll appreciate the larger screen size.  Use the larger fonts, make sure you have a decent FE so you don't need to go through windows, and you'll like the cost-to-size ratio.

3)....can anyone recommend a good 24" or 25" TV to use?

I've had a Phillips I LOVE.  They seem to be hard to find now, though.  

4) ...sources to purchase bezels...side art?

Go to Happs to purchase a bezel, but you'd be a fool not to check Tailgunner's DYNAMITE $2 bezel instructions in -->THIS thread<--.  I think it's BETTER than purchasing one because 1)you can pick your color, and 2)you'll appreciate spending less and knowing you made something that sweet looking!

5)I'm not Mr. Handy...thinking of buying a cabinet to use...preferably...relatively empty

buy a plan to follow, buy a cab kit, or buy a cab with no monitor.  Since you're not Mr Handy, you don't wanna risk killing yourself removing the monitor.  

It's like building a house.....plan how much you want to spend, then triple it!  LOL

Good Luck

[smaxdot]

What happened to smaxdot?

Hey Krick, I'm here...sorry work has got me a bit tied down this week.  :/  Incidentally thanks for offering to meet me at the Cherry Hill auction...  still not certain I'll be going but if I do I'll send you a message ahead of time.  

Thanks all for the responses, many of them were *very* helpful to me.  Also, sorry I was "all over the map" with my questions..  Incidentally, I have a few questions re: arcade monitor displays, so if a kind soul feels like helping me out, you can always respond to my post in the Display forum (well, I'll be posting it in a minute).

Thanks especially for the link to the $2 bezel thread...pretty cool.

Regards,

- Dave