Who's selling leaf joysticks these days?

[1UP]

Looking for a couple leaf sitcks to play around with.  Don't see them on Wico any more.  What's your source?

[HagHore]

You know, I think you can still get them from Wico but you need to know the part number of the stick you want when you call.  Otherwise you'll just have to keep checking eBay if you want real Wico's.

[1UP]

You know, I think you can still get them from Wico but you need to know the part number of the stick you want when you call.  Otherwise you'll just have to keep checking eBay if you want real Wico's.

So, anyone got that part number?  

BTW, is it my imagination, or is there more than just the difference in switch types between microswitch sticks and leaf sticks?  The whole reason I'm looking in to this right now is because of a little thing that happened at the car wash this weekend.  They finally got some games at the wash I always go to.  One of them was a Ms. Pac-Man (actually a speed-hacked Ms. Pac in a Super Pac cabinet painted black.)  Anyway, I played that sucker for a good half hour while I was waiting for my car, and I really liked the way the balltop leaf stick felt for that game.  I ended up getting my butt kicked by a kid less than half as old as the machine, but that's beside the point...  

I get back to work Monday (where my cab is) and I decide to brush up on some Ms. Pac-Man.  My wrist was torn up in 15 minutes on that damn E-stick (even with the looser springs I put in!)  One problem is that the bat-style stick is pretty small, and the throw is very short.  But it seems like the restrictor is really what makes it so hard on the wrists.  When the stick reaches the end of its throw, it friggin STOPS.  NOW.  The leaf stick never seemed to hit that kind of sudden resistance.  Very spongey.  I'm quickly becoming a believer!  If no one is making them now, I may end up making them myself after I get my cab production line up and running.  Or at least a MS stick that feels like a leaf stick.

Also, I tried switching to one of the larger Competition sticks to ease my pain.  It helped a little, with the larger handle and longer throw.  I noticed that the lack of a diamond restrictor also helped.  I was hurting myself by trying to turn corners rapidly on the 4-way, and I was actually getting blocked from making a smooth transition by the restrictor.  You have to be pushing just the right way to get it to slide without some friction, and that actually seemed to mess me up more than just playing with an 8-way.  Much smoother after that.  But still much stiffer than playing with a leaf stick.

What exactly is the difference that makes MS sticks so harsh?  They're very precise, but not at all friendly to the carpal-tunnel challenged.  OUCH!  

[Xiaou2]

 yay -  he's seeing the light     *nudge  


    The main reason that leafs feel better for certain games is due to the fact that they have no square bottom actuator.  

 On the competition for example... that is what makes it accurate - yet also, you can feel the 'box' shape when turning corners.

  The supers are a bit more round and made to slightly mimic the leaf setup.  However... they are much harder to move arround because or using hard springs instead of the nice pliable rubber centering gromet used in wico leafs.   They are also prone to a leaf life problem - diagnol troubles.  (though this seems to be mostly due to poor micro-leaf switche hybrid design.  The little actuator on the micros is too thin and bends to easily)

 Ohh - and most happ joys use a spring that creates a constant downward pressure.  This creates a ton more friction - ouch -  (and also wears the plastic spacers)

  Another notable thing is that the micros themsleves have springy resistence... so your really fighting 2 springs per movment.

 

[patrickl]

The reason they feel so good is the rubber grommet. I have to say both the leaf and microswitch variants feel great. Allthough I like the T Stick plus stick too (which has virtually no throw), but apparently that's a personal taste. I like the quicker reactions I get due to the shorter throw.

I bought some of those chinese clones at MikesArcade and I'm sad to say these sticks suck. Luckily they offered me a refund on them (BTW the people at MikesArcade are amazingly helpful)

Tailgunner did a good pictorial comparison of the cheap wico clone (often called "Wico Style Joystick") and the real thing.

They really are a direct clone of a Wico "Berzerk" stick. I actually have a Wico base that looks identical to the clones (just  the shaft is way thinner). They even include a copy of the Wico 2/4/8-way replacement kit "manual". It's a 4-way stick (with diamond shaped actuator), but still they included the 8-way actuator of the 2/4/8-way replacement kit.

BTW another stick that is very good for old 4-way games is the MsPac man/Galaga Replacement joystick (you can get these from Happ controls or Bob roberts too, just more expensive). It feels pretty much like a mushy Wico stick. Only trouble is that they are a bit more work to mount. It has a very short joystick handle so it needs to be mounted near the top of the panel (i.e. under metal or you need to route out the wood from the top) You can also use a metal mounting plate. Personally I went for the routing from the top and it worked fine.

[SkateDetroit]

     I love the Wico sticks! I put two into my cab I just recently finished, and picked up another set for another project. Both sets I picked up from Ebay. Depending on who you deal with the price could range from $7 to $20. Just depends on what's available. Not everyone labels their auctions "Wico Joystick" most times I come across them just labeled "Joystick".

      If you really get in a bind I believe I can find you a pair.

                        Austin

[HagHore]

So, anyone got that part number?  

I agree with PatrickL on the Wico "style" sticks, they are poop.

Check your PM 1up.  I am not positive about the part number but I believe a Wico 4-way Leaf is 15-945301.

[Lilwolf]

a quick note.

The ms-pacman / galaga reunion sticks play REALLY nice.. Much better then the wico - leaf 4ways imho.  Yes, even thought they are microswitchs.

they just have a little click to them.

I think the difference is that leafs can make contact a bit before they get to the end of their motion.  and have some spongee action at the end.  

just a little different.

[1UP]

a quick note.

The ms-pacman / galaga reunion sticks play REALLY nice.. Much better then the wico - leaf 4ways imho.  Yes, even thought they are microswitchs.

they just have a little click to them.

I think the difference is that leafs can make contact a bit before they get to the end of their motion.  and have some spongee action at the end.  

just a little different.

Actually, I have the Ms. Pac replacement, and didn't like it too much.  Especially the short stick.  I actually have what looks like about 4 ball-top handles from Wico sticks, and I succeeded in hacking one onto a Super by cutting the hourglass spacer down to about 3/16" long.  It is much more comfortable to hold, and with it mounted on my cab, I can play Ms. Pac-Man without quite as much discomfort.  The microswitches with long actuators make contact well before you reach their range of motion (in fact, contact happens just after the joystick starts moving) but it still feels very much different from a leaf.

It sounds like it is just the rubber grommet that makes the difference.  You get a nice little build up of resistance with the leafs before you hit the end of its range.  For long gaming sessions, that little bit makes a lot of difference.  I'll have to give these Wico sticks a shot!

[patrickl]

BTW, you can still see some pages of a very old Wico catalog. One of the joystick pages shold have contained the 4-way stick but only mentions the 2 and 8 way variations.

[Sasquatch!]

It sounds like it is just the rubber grommet that makes the difference.

It definitely is.  The grommet is what makes the Wicos "feel" the way they do.

I know that some people have said that they don't care for the Chinese repros, but since (it appears that) new Wicos can't be purchased anymore, I'd seriously consider the repros if I was rolling out a production CP.

[1UP]

It sounds like it is just the rubber grommet that makes the difference.

It definitely is.  The grommet is what makes the Wicos "feel" the way they do.

I know that some people have said that they don't care for the Chinese repros, but since (it appears that) new Wicos can't be purchased anymore, I'd seriously consider the repros if I was rolling out a production CP.

Wait, I'm confused.  I thought that Wico still made the so-called "microleaf" sticks (the microswitch sticks with the rubber grommet instead of spring).  Do they or don't they?

BTW, I am not necessarily looking at these as parts for my production cabs, just a few for myself to relieve my poor wrists...

[patrickl]

It sounds like it is just the rubber grommet that makes the difference.

It definitely is.  The grommet is what makes the Wicos "feel" the way they do.

I know that some people have said that they don't care for the Chinese repros, but since (it appears that) new Wicos can't be purchased anymore, I'd seriously consider the repros if I was rolling out a production CP.

Wait, I'm confused.  I thought that Wico still made the so-called "microleaf" sticks (the microswitch sticks with the rubber grommet instead of spring).  Do they or don't they?

They don't. Even the microleaf sticks are only available NOS or second hand. The only new rubber grommet sticks are the horrible chinese clones.

[patrickl]

Dunno if you are still looking for a good 4-way Wico, but I just came across a big ebay auction selling 50 of these sticks I have tried to get these even at $35 in 3 auctions now and failed everytime (people outsniped me), so you can imagine I was real happy to see these available in bulk for $25 now. Perhaps $25 is a lot of money, but these things (NOS) go for ridiculous prices.

[bigmoe]

Dunno if you are still looking for a good 4-way Wico, but I just came across a big ebay auction selling 50 of these sticks I have tried to get these even at $35 in 3 auctions now and failed everytime (people outsniped me), so you can imagine I was real happy to see these available in bulk for $25 now. Perhaps $25 is a lot of money, but these things (NOS) go for ridiculous prices.

I have purchased from this seller before, and he was very reliable in that transaction.

$25 for NOS 4-ways is a pretty good price.  People have probably managed lower, but it's rare.

b

[jcoleman]

Dunno if you are still looking for a good 4-way Wico, but I just came across a big ebay auction selling 50 of these sticks I have tried to get these even at $35 in 3 auctions now and failed everytime (people outsniped me), so you can imagine I was real happy to see these available in bulk for $25 now. Perhaps $25 is a lot of money, but these things (NOS) go for ridiculous prices.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for posting that auction link.  I have been looking for 4-ways for a YEAR.  Awesome.  Post this as it's own topic and that guy will be sold out in 24 hours.  Glad I got mine already

Coleman

[patrickl]

Yeah I was jumping for joy too! I'm pretty amazed that he has only sold 6 so far (inlcuding the 2 I ordered)! Really, people were paying $36 to $40 for these things over the last weeks. As far as I know they are brand new (well "old new", but still) and $25 is hardly more than you'd pay for one of those crummy chinese clones you see so often.

[1UP]

Well, I'm fairly satisfied with the super with the balltop on it, other than the fact that it's not a true 4-way.  I'm going to try an ultimarc t-stick plus, and a mini-pac and ultimarc trackball while I'm at it.  Jeez, I've got 3 different kinds of joysticks on my CP right now (including a true 4 way), and none of them is really doing the job for Ms. Pac-Man.  The 4-way has a tight action, but the tiny bat handle hurts.  If the super was a 4-way, it would be about perfect.

[patrickl]

Really, you need to try a true Wico leaf stick ... it's the only way to get perfection  

I can relate on the number of sticks though. I have about 6 different sticks (still 2 more on the way and 1 still to be ordered) and I don't even have a cab yet It's sad that you never know which one will suit you best till you tried them all. That kinda sux. Allthough it is fun trying them all out  

So far I like the T-stick+ and Wico leafs (or microleafs) best, but apparently that preference is rather personal (I see other people hating the short throw of the T sticks) so there goes.

[jcoleman]

1up - I have an actual Pac-Man stick that I'd be willing to part with...let me know what you have to trade.

Coleman

[1UP]

I think the Pac-Man sticks are too short for me to use.  I will see how good the t-stick is, and if I don't like it, I'll try to track down one of the microleafs.

[jerryjanis]

Awesome, thanks guys, I just ordered one.  My Happs microswitch ms. pac-man joystick isn't very satisfying.  I'm broke, but I cashed in on my soon-to-be birthday...  Woohoo!

[HagHore]

Here's an auction for two of the Wico microswitch sticks, black balltops, ends in 4 days

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13718&item=3285633221&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

[patrickl]

8-ways microswitch sticks are indeed a lot easier to find and thus also a lot cheaper. Actually these sticks look like the Wico microswitch sticks that have springs in them (they might not have the coveted rubber grommet). I got one of those spring wico's too and it's not really the same thing. Maybe someone here who won one of the previous auctions of these sticks can verify? (I have seen this auction 4 or 5 times now)

Unfortunately they don't deliver to the Netherlands cause I would have bought a pair of them just for the black ball handles at that price.

[NoOne=NBA=]

It's sad that you never know which one will suit you best till you tried them all.

That's not completely true though; and is a major reason I went to a modular CP system.
The stick that suits you best may vary from one game to the next.
With the modular system, I can swap out the stick from one game to the next, and use the stick that works best for THAT game.

[patrickl]

It's sad that you never know which one will suit you best till you tried them all.

That's not completely true though; and is a major reason I went to a modular CP system.
The stick that suits you best may vary from one game to the next.
With the modular system, I can swap out the stick from one game to the next, and use the stick that works best for THAT game.

The point I was trying to make is that you need to try (almost) all the different sticks to know which one you like best (i.e. you can't really rely on other peoples experience). But yes, your preference may even vary per game.

[NoOne=NBA=]

I got that from what you said.
I just didn't want anyone else to misinterpret it, and start selling off joystick A, to buy joystick B, thinking that there is ONE perfect joystick for them.

The closest I've been able to come is Wico sticks for games that require fluid movement in circles (like Time Pilot), and T-Sticks for games that require precise movements in 4/8 directions (like Crazy Climber).

I may try the P-360's before ending my search, as well.

[patrickl]

Funny, but I originally even had a statement about that in my original post. I deleted it after I remembered this thread is about 4-way sticks and even about a joystick specificly for Ms-Pac Man.

Maybe off-topic, but still I'm interested. Do you find that for some individual 4-way games you prefer a different joystick? I ask because for 4-way games I found I could play all games equally well (or bad as in my case) with the T-stick plus (in 4-way mode) or the Wico leaf 4-way (allthough slightly less so than the T-stick) Or are you talking more about 8-way sticks?

[NoOne=NBA=]

For the most part 4-ways seem to be 4-ways when I'm playing.
I noticed a vast improvement when I went to 4-ways initally because alot of games used to stop dead if you got a little off-center while using an 8-way to play them.
I have noticed that I tend to stop a little early on platform games (like Donkey Kong) with the T-stik on occasion though.
This usually requires me to push back in the direction I was originally going before making the change again.

That happens with the other sticks as well, but seems a little more pronounced when I use the T-stik.
I think that's due, in large part, to the shorter throw.
With a longer throw stick, you have to back off of the stick for a longer amount of time, resulting in you travelling a little farther before it disconnects.

I've seen the big difference in 8-way games.
The T-stiks work really well for games where you have eight definite directions to travel.
For games where you need to "sweep" the corners, they don't seem to work as well, although they still feel MUCH better to me than the Comps I used to play with.