Pop'n Music Controller

[adonis_minus_20]

I really posted this just to see if anyone, including SNAAAKE of course, was working on building their own version of a controller for Pop'n Music.  Currently, there are three groups who are making them: Ransai, Desktop Arcade (http://www.desktoparcade.com), and Frieza (http://frieza.stormwerks.net/PopnControllers.htm).  If you've created an account on Bemanistyle.com, you can access these threads in the forums:

Ransai: http://www.bemanistyle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=201
Desktop Arcade: http://www.bemanistyle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=176
Frieza: http://www.bemanistyle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1405

I think all of these are really great homemade controllers, but I guess I like the looks and features of the Ransai ones the best (they now come with illuminated buttons, which can be powered via batteries or the included power supply, which also doubles as a battery charger if you have rechargeable batteries).  They are on the pricey side though at $280 without shipping.  I may break down and buy one at some point in the near future anyway (I love Pop'n Music).

So if you're working on building one, or have any comments about the current offerings, post away.

Jim

[paigeoliver]

I have never played "Pop n Music" but I am making a Stepmania controller.

I am using the 2 player "Pump it Up" layout, which is 2 sets of 5 buttons, configured in 2 X shapes.

I am using light up rectangular gambling type buttons. The kind that let you put a graphic inside them (which will of course be the Pump it Up step graphics).

The wiring will terminate in a 15 pin molex connector which will in turn hook up to a 15 pin molex connected to a Keywhiz.

[Sephroth57]

sooo... youre not gonna play DDR??  DDR is 10x better then PIU has a ton more songs and popularity, seems silly to build a controller just for pump, maybe even make a 9 button square layout so you can play both games?


also about the PNM controller, i plan on building my own soon as i finish buying some car parts and have money again. I have a swappable CP setup and i already have the wood panel made i just need to buy buttons and hack a PS controller

[paigeoliver]

Pump is WAY better, and anyway, using Stepmania in Pump mode you still get all the DDR songs anyway. I believe my Stepmania install has like 300 songs or something equally nuts like that.

There may be more DDR versions, but the Pump button/step layout is way more natural. On DDR you spend half the time turned sideways.

[adonis_minus_20]

I started playing DDR before I knew about PIU.  I still like DDR, but I really enjoy playing PIU.  It is a good change of pace from DDR, and is very challenging (at least for me, I'm not that good).  There's another arcade game called Technomotion that is a dancing game, and has nine squares on which to step.  There's three modes: DDR type, PIU type, and an 8 arrow (all but the center square) type.  It's fun too, but the machine I played on had some pretty crappy pads.

Jim

[GGKoul]

I'm a newbie when it comes to these games...   I just want some clearification regarding these games.

Pop N Music - This is the game where a player smacks the lighted buttons when the note comes up.  Are these games in Mame, what are they called?  Are the verus games?

Stepmania / DDR / PIU:  This is where a person dances on one of those dance pads.  I assume these are the 4 way pads with a center safe spot.  Aren't these the Beatmania CHD games? Do these games work in Mame?  Or do you play them outside of Mame?  And whats the difference between Step, DDR & PIU games?

As I've always seen this games around in the arcade.  And I've always wanted to try them, but I never had the "guts" to try the game in the arcade.  So I'm wondering how I can play this game on my cabinet.

Thanks
-GGKoul

[kevin]

Pop 'N Music is the panel with the 9 large buttons. Each corresponds to column on screen, and you hit the approptiate button when the notes in each column hit the bottom. Currently not in MAME.

DDR is Konami's dancing game, with 4 pads (up, left, right, down). Step on the arrow when it hits the top of the screen. There are also 6 pad solo versions with up-left and up-right diagonals.

PIU is similar to DDR, but has pads on the diagonals and the center.

Neither DDR or PIU are in MAME, as they still make good money in arcades.

Stepmania is a DDR/PIU simulator for PC. Same game mechanics, but you can play with your keyboard in addition to a dance mat.

Beatmania, and BM IIDX are DJ games, where you have 5 or 7 (IIDX) keys in a piano layout plus a turntable. You press the correct key or spin the turntable when the note hits the bottom.

-Kevin

[GGKoul]

Thanks Kevin.

So I would most likely have to purchase or make a dance pad to be able to play those "Dance games."  As well as purchase a DDR game.  And a PIU pad wont work with a DDR game, as the DDR is Up, Down, Left Right and the PIU pad is diagonals in all 4 corners.

So I assume people are building their own pads with a 8 way setup, so they can play both DDR & PIU games... I got ya.

What's a good DDR or PIU software title that I should purchase?

Also, isn't Beatmania a CHD file?  As I thought I saw that one released a couple of versions ago.

Thanks!!
-GGKoul

[kevin]

While I know some exist, I'm not familiar with any actual PC dance games. Personally, I'd suggest Stepmania as it's free, and has the capability to play all DDR releases. If you have a moral objection to using the official DDR songs, there are plenty of fan made songs out there. Stepmania also supports psx/ps2/xbox dance mats with the right usb converter.

I've seen dance pads for both PIU and DDR, but I don't recall if any of them supported both. I think I recall seeing a pad with up/down/left/right as the psx dpad, and the corners as the psx thumb buttons, so if the middle was also some other button that should work for both. If you build your own, you can have as many panels as you want.

And finally.. Yes, beatmania/hiphopmania has been in MAME for a few versions now. There are 5 or 6 different mixes, each requiring a CHD. The controls are a little akward without the actual controller though.

I'm not the most knowledeable in this area, so you'll probably want to check a few more sources.

-Kevin

[GGKoul]

Just downloaded & installed Stepmania. Installed one song and loaded it up in Stepmania.  Just tried to play the game with my keyboard and it didnt work.  But I'm hooked.... I'm temped to purchase a Mad Catz Dance Pad tomorrow.  

Thanks for info Kevin!!

-GGKoul

[Sephroth57]

DDR stepmania is very fun to play with your fingers, i can pass every song in the game with my fingers on the arrowkeys, on a real dancepad i can pass everything except a couple 10 footers. its really good for training your eyes for when you really play in the arcade.

also there is a mod to put pop n music in stepmania, there are no popnmusic songs released in DWI format yet but you can play all the DDR songs with converted steps to PopN. its weird with the keyboard but fun to try.

[rampy]

Have you considered converting/using the pop 'n music controller that was made for the dreamcast (import)?

They show up on ebay once in a while.

*shrug* Let me know if you'd like linkage/pics/etc...  I almost bought one, but ended up with samba de amigo shakers/...

rampy

[paigeoliver]

You can actually buy several versions of "Pump" for the PC. They are arcade perfect too. Which makes complete sense, since the arcade version of Pump runs a PC and a VGA monitor.

You probably won't find them at best buy, but you can certainly order them.

[kevin]

DDR stepmania is very fun to play with your fingers, i can pass every song in the game with my fingers on the arrowkeys

If you're looking for some harder songs to play with a keyboard, try www.flashflashrevolution.com

There are a good mix of beginner to expert songs there, and you don't need to download anything to play. Probably a good link for people that want a simple introduction to rhythm games as well.

-Kevin

[paigeoliver]

Also, in Stepmania, if playing with keyboard or buttons, try turning up the speed to 3x or 4x.

[kevin]

Also, in Stepmania, if playing with keyboard or buttons, try turning up the speed to 3x or 4x.

Maybe I'm different than most, but I find pretty much all songs, except the fastest, to be much easier at 2x or 3x speed when playing on the keyboard. When sightreading a song I prefer to have as much space as possible between the arrows, then my brain doesn't have to work and my fingers just sort of do it without any thought.

-Kevin

[paigeoliver]

I also find 2X easier on both keyboard and in real life. But 4X on faster songs is so fast that you have very little time to react, thus making it harder.

In real life I can only play the Pump songs that I already have memorized at 4X speed. Everything else I play at 2X.

[LOKIOLR]

Here's a great how to also. I'm actually going to build this one:

http://dwi.kindlespine.com/

And while we're on the subject of bemani controllers:

IIDX:
http://www3.ctktv.ne.jp/~pamnes/bmc/bmc.html

[kevin]

IIDX:
http://www3.ctktv.ne.jp/~pamnes/bmc/bmc.html

Link is broken, but by searching the higher level directories I found this: http://www.opticalflats.net/2dx/

The finished controllers looks really nice.. Too bad I can only understand half a dozen kanji.

-Kevin

[Sephroth57]

Also, in Stepmania, if playing with keyboard or buttons, try turning up the speed to 3x or 4x.

i usually turn up the actual speed of the song, so its like playing in fast forward. try "So Deep" on 1.4x song speed. its sick, ive trained myself to pass it easily though

[paigeoliver]

Is anyone here actually any good at making Stepmania songs? I wanted to add a few of my favorite stupid songs. (Tatu in Russian mostly).

[Industen]

Check it out if your interested.

http://joelsgadgets.com/Popnmusic.html

[SkateDetroit]

I believe if you download the english version of that song and then replace it with the russian MP3 (saved as the same file name as the english one in the proper directory) then it should work fine. Assuming it's the full length of the song and not an edit.

Is anyone here actually any good at making Stepmania songs? I wanted to add a few of my favorite stupid songs. (Tatu in Russian mostly).

[hooded_paladin]

Is anyone here actually any good at making Stepmania songs? I wanted to add a few of my favorite stupid songs. (Tatu in Russian mostly).

well, if you can at least find the bpm of it, the Stepmania edit mode is perfect for making simfiles.  You just have to make a mostly empty .sm file, put that and the mp3 in the correct folder, and the editor will streamline the process.  You do still have to edit everything yourself, though.

[hooded_paladin]

oh, and enough DDR vs. PIU bickering.  I have yet to play PIU, due to lack of money, but I know that you will enjoy both if you enjoy one and aren't stubborn.  Playing PIU would mean another game to learn special moves for, now that DDR seems so simple to me (except the maxes).  Like, one move I've witnessed is the simple circle, alternating the center button and each diagonal in turn, making the person spin.  All in all, it looks a heck of a lot deeper than DDR, if not as widespread.

[adonis_minus_20]

You can actually buy several versions of "Pump" for the PC. They are arcade perfect too. Which makes complete sense, since the arcade version of Pump runs a PC and a VGA monitor.

You probably won't find them at best buy, but you can certainly order them.

One place you can get them at is Redoctane: http://www.redoctane.com/pumpitup.html.  I want to get these for the PC to play PIU at home.  I'm sure the dance pads they're selling are probably less than ideal.  I wonder if it would be possible to hack the pump pads they're selling and make your own with sheet metal for contacting the switches?  I want to do this, but I'm sure I lack the skills in order to do so.  If the software allows configuring of what buttons can be used (the dance pads are USB), I guess you could hack a PS controller and use an adaptor to USB for the PC, for building a homemade pad.

Jim

[paigeoliver]

I have read about how to add new songs in Stepmania, but it really seems to be a bit beyond me.

The Pump it Up button layout REALLY lends itself to some great moves that just aren't possible with DDR. Like the circle, figure 8 (when playing both sides), and some other stuff. Basically, I feel that layout is just more ergonomic, and lends itself to much better choreography.