cp interface planning?

[carl]

Hello,
I'm just getting started with building my first cab, and I've become paralyzed with the number of options available for building the control panel and interface.  I've spent hours on the net reading all the reviews and web logs from various projects, and I think I've got a plan, but I wanted to get some feedback from those of you who have experience.

I'm pretty clear on the controls I want to get, they are as follows:

2 Ikari style rotary joysticks
1 spinner
1 Trackball
1 classic 4 way joystick
12 player buttons
2 one/twp player buttons
maybe a couple pinball buttons on the sides

but as for the controllers... do I need all three types?

I-pcac 24input for buttons and joystick movement

Opti-poc for trackball and spinner

Druin's Rotary Interface for rotary motion on joystick
http://members.rogers.com/druins22/ls30/

or will the Opti-pac accommodate two rotaries, one spinner and one four-axis trackball?

Thanks for you help!
Carl

[Tiger-Heli]

Hello,
I'm just getting started with building my first cab, and I've become paralyzed with the number of options available for building the control panel and interface.  I've spent hours on the net reading all the reviews and web logs from various projects, and I think I've got a plan, but I wanted to get some feedback from those of you who have experience.

I'm pretty clear on the controls I want to get, they are as follows:

2 Ikari style rotary joysticks
1 spinner
1 Trackball
1 classic 4 way joystick
12 player buttons
2 one/twp player buttons
maybe a couple pinball buttons on the sides

but as for the controllers... do I need all three types?

I-pcac 24input for buttons and joystick movement

Opti-poc for trackball and spinner

Druin's Rotary Interface for rotary motion on joystick
http://members.rogers.com/druins22/ls30/

or will the Opti-pac accommodate two rotaries, one spinner and one four-axis trackball?

Thanks for you help!
Carl

Easiest thing to start out is break everything out by control type -
Analog controls - None

Rotary Joysticks - There are three types - SNK LS30's will require druin's interface as well as six switch inputs (4 direction and 2 rotation) each.  Happ mechanical - same thing, but better feel if these will be your primary joysticks.  Happ optical - do not require Druin's interface, but need one optical axis per control, and don't click as they're rotated.

Optical controls - 1 spinner, 1 trackball, and the optical rotaries. (3 or 5 axes, depending on how the rotaries are interfaced). There are three options (and some variations) - First option - The mini-pac controls one trackball, but you could probably use a DPDT switch to select between your other controls. Second option - The opti-pac will control two trackballs and 4-spinners and switch between the two (4-axis total) but you could wire all three controls to one opti-pac port since you'll never use them together in the same game.  Third option - www.oscarcontrols.com sells a pre-hacked mouse.  You could buy two or three of the USB version of these and you one for the spinner, one for the trackball, and one for the rotaries (if optical), or you could just buy one interface and wire everything to it, with or without switches.

Buttons and switches -
2 Ikari style rotary joysticks
1 classic 4 way joystick
12 player buttons
2 one/twp player buttons
maybe a couple pinball buttons on the sides

If you go with the mech rotary joysticks, you are looking at 32 inputs for the above which would work with the KeyWiz from www.groovygamegear.com.  If you can have your 4-way share inputs with the P1 stick, you would need 28 inputs, so either the KeyWiz or the mini-pac, or the I-pac/2 would work.

Let me know if that wasn't clear.

[carl]

Good info Tiger, I'm trying to wrap my head around it.

so let's take this one step further, I'll make some choices...

Rotary Joysticks---------

2 Happ mechanical #50-5618-00 ($43ea) as primary sticks
http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/50561800.htm

requires Druin's interface ($45) + six switch inputs per stick
http://members.rogers.com/druins22/ls30/

Optical controls ---------

1 Happ trackball 56-0100-10
3" TBALL ASSY RED STD HARNESS ($96)
http://www.happcontrols.com/trackballs/560100xx.htm

1 oscar Vortex spinner
 $59 ($16 knob not included)
http://www.oscarcontrols.com/vortex/

requires opti-pac ($40)
http://www.ultimarc.com/optipac1.html

Buttons--------------------

12 happ ultimates ($1.75ea)
http://www.happcontrols.com/pushbuttons/539200xx.htm

2 happ player buttons ($1.95ea)
http://www.happcontrols.com/pushbuttons/589111l1ply.htm

requires i-pac1 keyboard interface ($43)
http://www.ultimarc.com/ipac1.html
-----------------------
total $310


that's a little more $ than I was hoping.  Is there any way to get the same functionality, and spend less?  The trackball and spinner are lower in priority for me.  Highest would be the buttons and rotary joysticks.

Thanks for your help!
carl

[GGKoul]

You can save your self some cash on the trackball by purchasing one from Peale.  Check out the Buy & Sell forum.

Also check out eBay or the www.therealbobroberts.com for prices.

If you cant get everything at once.  Just start my purchasing the IPAC, Opti-pac, 2 joysticks, trackball and buttons.  And build from there.

[AlexC]

You can also go with one of these for your trackball:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3281469277&category=13718

I have one and works great, just plug and play.
It will also save you quite a bit of $$  

[Tiger-Heli]

that's a little more $ than I was hoping.  Is there any way to get the same functionality, and spend less?  The trackball and spinner are lower in priority for me.  Highest would be the buttons and rotary joysticks.

Actually, I'm better at the doing this on the cheap options than the other stuff.

so let's take this one step further, I'll make some choices...

Well some of your choices eliminated the low-cost options I presented, but I'll try to post the alternatives again.

Rotary Joysticks---------
2 Happ mechanical #50-5618-00 ($43ea) as primary sticks
http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/50561800.htm
requires Druin's interface ($45) + six switch inputs per stick
http://members.rogers.com/druins22/ls30/

Not much you can do here, unless you went with the optical joysticks and eliminated Druin's interface.  I think I would prefer the mechanicals.  The Happ is a much better stick for primary use than the SNK LS-30's and the LS-30's are about the same price new unless you find a deal on E-bay.

Optical controls ---------
1 Happ trackball 56-0100-10
3" TBALL ASSY RED STD HARNESS ($96)
http://www.happcontrols.com/trackballs/560100xx.htm

3" Wico Trackball ($50)
2.25" Wico or ultimarc trackball ($25) www.wicothesource.com
Trackball mounting plate ($10), www.therealbobroberts.com
or
I'm using a $4 USB PC trackball for my games, but it kinda sucks.

1 oscar Vortex spinner
 $59 ($16 knob not included)
http://www.oscarcontrols.com/vortex/

I like the Vortex, but if you want to save money - OSCAR model one spinner ($43) and $6 rubber knob.

requires opti-pac ($40)
http://www.ultimarc.com/optipac1.html

Requires 2 OSCAR interfaces and 1 harness kit - $26
or
Requires 1 OSCAR interface and 1 Harness kit and $3 DPDT Switch - $20
or
Requres 1 OSCAR interface and $3 DPDT switch and splice your own wires to trackball - $12
or
Folded into the cost of the mini-pac, but I couldn't find it, (more below)

Buttons--------------------
12 happ ultimates ($1.75ea)
http://www.happcontrols.com/pushbuttons/539200xx.htm

Ultimates have the vertical microswitch, you want the horizontal microswitch ones (I show $1.85 each, $1.75 each in 100 lots)
www.therealbobroberts.com $1.45 each

2 happ player buttons ($1.95ea)
http://www.happcontrols.com/pushbuttons/589111l1ply.htm

www.therealbobroberts.com ($3.20/pair)

requires i-pac1 keyboard interface ($43)
http://www.ultimarc.com/ipac1.html

$43 + $12 shipping, didn't see the mini-pac on www.ultimarc.com, but that could save you money on optical interfaces.  (especially if you don't mind hacking a hard drive IDE cable rather than buying the pre-made harness)

KeyWiz MAX - $34.95 plus $6-7 shipping www.groovygamegear.com

KeyWiz ECO (if you don't mind soldering) $26.95 plus $6-7 shipping (same place)

-----------------------
total $310

I didn't total how much I might have saved you.  Those are my recomendations, what you do with them is up to you and your wallet.

[Tiger-Heli]

$43 + $12 shipping, didn't see the mini-pac on www.ultimarc.com, but that could save you money on optical interfaces.  (especially if you don't mind hacking a hard drive IDE cable rather than buying the pre-made harness)

KeyWiz MAX - $34.95 plus $6-7 shipping www.groovygamegear.com

KeyWiz ECO (if you don't mind soldering) $26.95 plus $6-7 shipping (same place)

Found the mini-pac info here - http://www.ultimarc.com/minipac.html (had to search the I-PAC forum to find it).

$29 for the basic board isn't too bad (more than a KW MAX when you include shipping, though, plus you have to hack an IDE cable.

$69 for the optical version with harness is more than you would pay with a standard encoder and one of the oscar interfaces.

FWIW.

[Lilwolf]

btw... with all those controllers... consider hot-swapping... the control panel will be jammed packed and you might have troubles playing with some controllers because of all the others being close (like trackballs you need some space on all sides to get a good spin on it)

My feelings on the SNKs.

NOTE:  I haven't used the druins board... but I HAVE used the MK64 and I believe they are the same.

Don't try to use them.  Try to free up 24 inputs + 8 for the directions (I know its hard... but hear me out).

Analog+ mame has direct support for SNK joysticks.  This is AMAZING!  When you start moving around, it pops to the EXACT location it should be.  When playing games where you need to move 3 forward fire, 3 back and fire FAST... you can't do it with the others.

why?

Mame has the rotary games hooked directly to the mouse...  And all key controls are actually setup as a normal key -> analog controller... ie, how long you hold it down is how far it moves.

So MK (and I believe druins) hold down keys for a set amount of time.  And you adjust.  And they keep track of how many times you moved it...  So the rotation is slow.... to make sure that they update the analog controller....  So you click 3 times... the board cache 3 moves, press one, wait, press two, wait, press three.

NOW... Analog+ mame ALSO has a 'L', 'R' setting that allows it to take the single L and single R at face value... no analog.... and with the MK64 you can speed it up CONSIDERABLY... (I was successful to up to 8ms)... and it works.... and it was MUCH MUCH BETTER...

but while I was rewiring... I decided to rewire one of mine to have all 12 going to the MK and try the new direct connect...

and there was a HUGE differece AGAIN.  It IS better then the analog+ mame and straight "l" and "r" and MUCH MUCH MUCH better then normal mame.

but...

it doesn't currently work with ikari games... about 1/2 of the games get lost after a few turns.  But TimeSoldier is fun to play again (I couldn't play it at all with normal mame... and it was good with analog+ mame, but PERFECT with the direct connects)..

So... the options (for MK64s at least)

1) Mame + timed clicks
  adv- normal mame build.  
  adv- only takes 2 inputs on an encoder.
  dis- can only turn at a certain rate.
  dis- obviously not playing the original game

2) Analog + with 'l' and 'r' from converter
  adv- feels more authentic
  adv- speed up turning exactly
  adv- only takes 2 inputs on an encoder
  dis- have to be able to change the key press speed (mk64 can do it... anyone with a druins board?)
  dis- not quite there in feel
  dis- analog+ mame sometimes a few versions old
 
3) Analog+ with true 12 inputs into the board
  adv- feels arcade PERFECT!
  adv- spin as fast or as slow... and always in the right location
  adv- makes some games/weapons playable (sword)
  adv- once setup... no messing with digital -> analog %s
  dis- need 16 inputs PER joystick (12 + 4 for directions)
  dis- need to follow some directions to get it confured
  dis- analog+ mame sometimes a few versions old

[Tiger-Heli]

btw... with all those controllers... consider hot-swapping... the control panel will be jammed packed and you might have troubles playing with some controllers because of all the others being close (like trackballs you need some space on all sides to get a good spin on it)

My feelings on the SNKs.

NOTE:  I haven't used the druins board... but I HAVE used the MK64 and I believe they are the same.

Lilwolf - Good info.  I didn't realize the IKARI games weren't working with this method.  Are they just broken with the current Analog Plus, or the previous versions as well.

I just wanted to clarify some things that the original poster might not realize -
The MK64 www.mk64.com/ron was a 64 input encoder that is no longer available.

To do what Lilwolf is recommending would require an I-PAC/4.  You are talking 32 inputs JUST for the joysticks, without any buttons or coin start inputs.

OTOH, you would not need the druin board and the cost of the I-PAC/4 is probably less than the cost of the druin board and one of the other encoders.

Worth looking into . . .

[carl]

wow!  Thanks for the activity on my little post here guys... your providing some great detailed info!

I had all but thrown in the towel last night when I totaled up all the additional costs I still have (pc monitor, speakers, grates, coin door, paint, t-molding, etc).  But since reading yoru latest info, and backing off on my grandiose plans... it seems do-able again.

Let's see if I can make another stab at this:

Rotary Joysticks-
2 Happ mechanical ($43ea)

Dumping the spinner for now-

Might toss the trackball too, or use one of the mouse hack ones that tie into the PS2/USB port (where did you get your $4 USB one?)

Buttons-
12 horz micros switch from therealroberts (1.45ea)
two player buttons, therealroberts (3.20pr)

I-PAC4 USB
(56 inputs) $69.00
(using 32 direct inputs from jsticks)
----------------------------------------------------
Total $180

A little compromise and a lot of smarts (from you guys) and that's a decent savings ($130)!

now on the joysticks... Liwolf, are you saying that using direct connects from the mech happ rotary joysticks will  work in analogue mame nicely... and that I won't need the optical or druins encoders?  But the single con would be that it;s doesn't work with Ikari?  If so, what happens next?  Where is the problem with Ikari?  Is it in MAME?  Can it/will it be fixed int he future?

Thanks,
carl

[Tiger-Heli]

Might toss the trackball too, or use one of the mouse hack ones that tie into the PS2/USB port (where did you get your $4 USB one?)

http://www.softwareandstuff.com/h_acc_mactrack.html  It looks better than the picture (clear white, not dull gray) but it's out of stock now.  Outpost had the Macally I-ball for about the same price and a lot of people got them, it you can find them.

NOTE:  I'm not building a MAME cab, I've got a computer with a desktop controller (ok, I don't even have that yet :-((( ).  The trackball is better than the mouse for C.A.B.A.L or Centipede, but that's about it.  Forget about it for Golden Tee or bowling, it won't really free-spin.  I would highly recommend getting an arcade one, even if you have to settle for the small $25.00 Wico.

BTW, edgedamage (I think) recently hacked a $10 Wico Atari 2600 trackball he snagged off E-bay and that seemed to work well.

now on the joysticks... Liwolf, are you saying that using direct connects from the mech happ rotary joysticks will  work in analogue mame nicely... and that I won't need the optical or druins encoders?

You never need the optical interface with the Happ Mechanical joysticks (you do need about 4.5 inches of below panel depth on your CP, though)  (and you will need one for the trackball or spinner when you add one).  And you don't need the Druin interface with enough inputs and Analog Plus.

 But the single con would be that it;s doesn't work with Ikari?  If so, what happens next?  Where is the problem with Ikari?  Is it in MAME?  Can it/will it be fixed int he future?

I asked the same thing above.  I would assume it's a problem in Analog Plus.  Direct support for these was only added in version 0.77.2.  Hopefully it will be fixed in an upcoming build, but how long that will take . . . ?

[Tiger-Heli]

Also, all the analog Plus features and a lot of other neat things have been added in to NoNameMAME https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=91067&package_id=95932

So you could always use that build if you prefer.

[carl]

Hello again,
I just got word back from Andy at Ultimarc who said,

*The I-PAC does not support the Happ mechanical rotary sticks
unfortunately.  We don't have any interface for these sticks.*

when I asked,

*.. will it (I-Pac4) support two Happ mechanical rotary joysticks
with direct connections (of course that will burn up a bunch of inputs)*

so now what?  an I-pac2 with the o-pac or druins for the rotary portion of the sticks?

Thanks,
carl <-feeling a little dizzy and confused

[Nailz]

Why not go with the IPAC-2, get the Opti-PAC and use the Happs optical rotaries with it?  

Unless you are dying to have the "click-click" of the mechanicals, that would be the way I would do it.

[carl]

I guess I was under the impression that the mechanical rotary joysticks were the only ones that will work with Ikari.  I had to go back through my research, and I found the tidbit that made me think this was the case on this FAQ page:

http://members.rogers.com/druins22/ls30/joysticks.html

Where can I get the proper mechanical rotary joysticks?

    * Clone joysticks are available from Happ Controls.  They sell optical (wrong ones) and "Ikari" style (right ones).

Now that I understand this a little better, I realize they are just talking about which joysticks are correct for the Druins interface.

Carl

[Tiger-Heli]

Hello again,
I just got word back from Andy at Ultimarc who said,

*The I-PAC does not support the Happ mechanical rotary sticks
unfortunately.  We don't have any interface for these sticks.*

when I asked,

*.. will it (I-Pac4) support two Happ mechanical rotary joysticks
with direct connections (of course that will burn up a bunch of inputs)*

so now what?  an I-pac2 with the o-pac or druins for the rotary portion of the sticks?

Thanks,
carl <-feeling a little dizzy and confused

I think Andy misunderstood your question.  What he means is you cannot wire the joysticks up to 24 I-PAC inputs and have it work in standard MAME.

You can do this and have it work with MAME Analog Plus or NoNAMEMAME because it DIRECTLY supports the mechanical sticks, but I think Andy may not be aware of this.

I hate to contradict Andy about his own device, but there is NO reason this should not work with MAME analog plus (but you might need to re-program the default I-PAC/4 inputs, but that's not a big deal).

[Tiger-Heli]

Now that I understand this a little better, I realize they are just talking about which joysticks are correct for the Druins interface.

The optical rotaries will work fine for IKARI, except you don't have the click-stop and the discrete rotation (turn 3 clicks left, etc).  Cost is almost a wash, the sticks are about $5 more and you need an optical interface, but you could use that for your trackball spinner as well, and you wouldn't need as many inputs as an I-PAC/4.

The opticals do need about another inch below the panel or 5.5 inches of clearance.

[Lilwolf]

btw... If druins board can send 'l' and 'r' in realtime (one per click as fast as you can turn it...

then analog+ will work perfect (and probably noname haven't tried it in a while).

But if it buffers and sends a timed press and release... you will have problems turning it fast...

This will make it 6 inputs per joystick....

But hearing everything you have on your cp... without hotswappable control panels... I think you will want to go with a ipac4 anyway.



and I'm sorry to hear Ron is out of the encoder buisness.  I personally love his encoder and thought he would have done a GREAT job if he just added screw down terminals.  It was a little harder to setup because of it... but it worked GREAT when your done.  

[Tiger-Heli]

Lilwolf, could you give more details on the IKARI problem you mentioned earlier?

[carl]

Tiger,
funny you should mention the rotary for spinner... I was just thinking about that this am.  But then I remembered  back to my tempest days, and some of the levels required some pretty crazy spin styles (putting your hand on the side of the knob and jerking hard to get it to spin like crazy).  Might be difficult to do with a stick.

On optical rotaries for Ikari... how does the game deal with the linear data?  Does it move the character in smaller degree increments (compared to the stair step style degree increments provided by the mechanicals)?  Or does the character sit at the designated degrees rotation until the optical passes the next rotational increment?

I do like the idea of getting the optical rotary sticks, opt-pac and being able to use it later for the trackball and spinner... if it doesn't ruin the Ikari experience.

Wolf,
I've decided to trim down my master plan on the controls.  I'm gonna hold off on the trackball and spinner for now, and just do the two primary joysticks/buttons and try to squeeze the classic 4 way stick.  I'll put these in a mock panel first and see how it feels.  Then explore either hot swapable panels, or crowding more in.

I've sent an email off to Druins to see if his interface does the realtime or cached movements.  

thanks for all the great feedback guys, keep it coming.  One of these days I'll actually place and order, and then I'll be bugging you for info on how to set it up.

Carl

[Tiger-Heli]

Tiger,
funny you should mention the rotary for spinner... I was just thinking about that this am.  But then I remembered  back to my tempest days, and some of the levels required some pretty crazy spin styles (putting your hand on the side of the knob and jerking hard to get it to spin like crazy).  Might be difficult to do with a stick.

You read the post wrong.  I meant that if you got the opti-pac for the opticals, you would have it for the spinner and trackball later.  From what I've read, the optical sticks wouldn't be too bad for Arkanoid, but would not work for Tempest (too much friction).

On optical rotaries for Ikari... how does the game deal with the linear data?  Does it move the character in smaller degree increments (compared to the stair step style degree increments provided by the mechanicals)?  Or does the character sit at the designated degrees rotation until the optical passes the next rotational increment?

I do like the idea of getting the optical rotary sticks, opt-pac and being able to use it later for the trackball and spinner... if it doesn't ruin the Ikari experience.

It still moves designated degrees.  Whether it ruins it depends on how much you played the original and how much of a purist you are.  I would fire up a game on your PC now, the mouse side to side should automatically be mapped to P1 rotation.  Try moving the mouse (it's an optical control) and imagining that's the stick rotation and see what  you think.  (You can use the analog settings menu to control how much the player rotates for a given mouse movement).

[Aceldamor]

I have a pair of Happ opticals for my cab and hooked them up for testing purposes and found:

1. Arkanoid and other spinner games, though playable, are not recommended for playing using the rotary sticks...they are NOT free spinning.

2. You can use 2 optical rotary sticks using 1 mouse hack. 1 stick on the x axis 1 stick on the y axis.

3. They will work for all rotary type games, including the optical rotary game .50 caliber. For Ikari, time solders, and guillera war you don't get the click, but with the resistance in the spin of the optical stick you really don't miss it and you can still be accurate with the spin (with a little setting of the sensitivity)

Granted, it's not arcade accurate, but hey....from the sound of it, your not building a repro anyway  

Just my opinion on the subject...

[carl]

DOH!  I'm always reading things wrong... sorry about that Tiger.

Sounds like the optical rotaries will be just fine for me.

Liwolf, I got word back from Druin on his interface:

---
The mechanical interface sends realtime, I don't count the number of
inputs registered and send the same number of outputs, what I do is
wait for input, then send output, and if there are further inputs
received during my output, they are not noticed.  Then the end result
is if someone is rotating constantly, as soon as I'm done sending
output, I'll see the next fast received rotation again and set the
output again, and so if 20 fast inputs are made, I may only see 3 and
generate 3 which last the duration of the 20 fast ones, looking like
one long keypress.  MAME will spin the character continuously during
this time of extended keypress.  As soon as fast rotation stops, I'd be
sending a final output for the last received input.  The mechanical
interface thus acts like an analog/optical input when rotated fast, and
acts like single switch clicks when slow normal motion is received, one
output per input.  I've used it successfully to control Tron's arm
(which is supposed to be spinner) and several optical intended rotary games.
---

Carl

[IncrdblHulk7]

Can anyone comment on attempts at hooking up the 12-pin LS-30 rotary input directly to IPAC4 (No Druid interface) and the ability to play Ikari with it?

[Lilwolf]

btw, that is EXACTLY the trouble I was mentioning about the druin board.  

MK was similar.. but would cache them...

so the speed you turn will NOT change the speed in game.

Consider waiting until you can spare an extra 12 inputs per game.  I tried it in many ways... and this is BY FAR THE BEST SOLUTION..  For timesoldiers and such..

But Ikari is still broken.  I will ask around and see if there is a chance of getting it fixed..

[JAZ]

I would go with real SNK sticks (www.videoconnect.com or eBay) and Druin's adapter. For me, the rotary games are just not the same without the yellow sticks and the clicking. Druin's interface obviously works fine - he has posted several positive reviews on his website. Additionally, it works with plain old MAME. You don't have to muck around with different versions just for these games.

If the Ikari games currently dont work with these alternate builds of MAME then that rules them out from the get-go anyway.

[EvilNuff]

Can anyone comment on attempts at hooking up the 12-pin LS-30 rotary input directly to IPAC4 (No Druid interface) and the ability to play Ikari with it?

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I too am interested in the above comment.  I have not found an answer with search, anyone that can help?

[Tiger-Heli]

Can anyone comment on attempts at hooking up the 12-pin LS-30 rotary input directly to IPAC4 (No Druid interface) and the ability to play Ikari with it?

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I too am interested in the above comment.  I have not found an answer with search, anyone that can help?

AFAIK, LilWolf is the only one who has tried this.  He has fairly complete comments above.

In re-reading his post, I'm not sure if he means Ikari doesn't work with the direct connection, or that it has problems, but Time Soldiers doesn't.

Translation:  He may be saying that IKARI didn't work as well as TS, but was still better than IKARI with any other interface.

But I'm trying to read between the lines of his post, and would like first-hand info.

[Lilwolf]

Ikari warriors and victory road DO NOT work.

Time Soldiers DOES work (plus others).

I believe it is the ones that originally had NO for all but the current direction work and the ones with NC doesn't... or the other way around.

I haven't had a chance to play with it for ages.... And time soldiers is the game I got the SNKs for.... So I haven't looked at the drivers to see whats up.