Control Panel-Layouts

[Demon-Seed]

Hello
Demoncade 2 is in the works and I was not sure what type of cp to make. I do not need trackball or spinners. Currently have 2 eightways, 6 buttons.. and then 4 buttons accross the top for coin, exit, etc.. and two pinaball buttons.. anyone have good layouts or templates?

[chrisindfw]

Here is my layout. I have a trackball however you can remove it if you want to just have space.

I also have a visio with this on it if you would like it.

[Demon-Seed]

Hello
ok i was thinking why have a four way joy? is the 8 way  not easier or as good? no offence but whats visio?

thanks
for the post

[crashwg]

Visio is a 2D design program by microsoft, check your favorite search engine for more details.

I can not comment on 4-way vs. 8-way use from experience, because I haven't recieved any joysticks I've ordered, but I can sort of explain.

I guess, when playing 4-way games on an 8 way, and you hit the diagonal, some games will not respond the way you would want them to.  Which makes a whole lot of sense when you think about it.  The game doesn't expect up and left at the same time so you can't realy expect it to know what to do with that.

I'm sure someone will explain this better than I can, but hey, I gave it my best shot  

[Demon-Seed]

Hello
I understand. Where can i find a list of what games require what type of joy?

[Tiger-Heli]

Hello
I understand. Where can i find a list of what games require what type of joy?

The 4-way problem is probably most noticeable in the Pac-Man type games - what happens:

Say you are moving right, but you accidentally move the stick Up-Right, activating both switches, the program (MAME) has to decide whether you meant to go up or continue right.  Half the time it guesses wrong, causing a delay, and allowing the ghosts to catch you.

A true four way stick only allows one switch to be pressed at a time, so diagonals are impossible.

As far as what games use which controls, MAME has this info if you use a frontend that can display it, or the sortinfo program, or the controls.dat file at http://fe.donkeyfly.com/controls/controls.php

[NoOne=NBA=]

Or, worse yet, in games like Donkey Kong, it will just stop dead until you get the stick back to a single direction.

The Tron lightcycle stage is terrible with an 8-way as well.
The lightcycle starts zig-zagging uncontrollably if you hit the diagonals, which is almost impossible to avoid with an 8-way stick.

[Demon-Seed]

Hi
So do you think it is wise to have 2-- 8 ways and one 4 way? What games require or rather work best with 4 way is there a list?

Spinners and trackball-I have no plans to put them on as I play no games that use them.. but just out of curosity what games use them?? how can i find this out to weight the pros vs cons of each control?

Any idea where I can get a cp templete?? or program to design the layout based on the size of CP  i want? there used to be a program floating around.

Thanks in advance
Jim

[FractalWalk]

So do you think it is wise to have 2-- 8 ways and one 4 way? What games require or rather work best with 4 way is there a list?

Spinners and trackball-I have no plans to put them on as I play no games that use them.. but just out of curosity what games use them??

Since there are thousands of games, those questions can't be answered easily. Why don't you make a list of the games that you want to play and then check out www.klov.com to see what controls each one used.

[Demon-Seed]

Hey
I will do that. Thanks
actually i think mame32 twill tell u as well. I see a few games are 2 way that I play.. 2 way??? what is that??? just left and right?? hmm 4 way seems to be used on a lot of classics where u move through mazes etc.. ie)pacman... 8 way is popular for newer games ie) MK3,.,,hmm gotta decide if its worth it to put a 4 way on.. dam decisions, decisions..ehehe

[Sephroth57]

well you could just get a 4/8 way switchable from www.ultimarc.com   i built my panel originally with 2 8ways 6 buttons each, but i was on a budget and i really wanted a 4way in there too. so eventually i plan on swaping out the player 1 8way for a switchable, since the number of games that use 2 4 ways at the same time u can count on 2 hands.

[Tiger-Heli]

Hi
So do you think it is wise to have 2-- 8 ways and one 4 way? What games require or rather work best with 4 way is there a list?

Not to be a smart@ss, but it depends on what games you play - if you just play fighters and vertical shooters, you'll never need a 4-way.  If you just play classics like Donkey Kong and Pac-Man, you'll never need an 8-way.

Most people play some of each.  2-- 8 ways and a 4-way is pretty common, although I don't like losing that much CP real-estate.

Other options are 8-ways with www.oscarcontrols.com restrictor plates, or switchable joysticks.  The Prodigy from www.groovygamegear.com or the T-Stick Plus from www.ultimarc.com can be switched from above the panel.  If you don't mind reaching under the panel, there's the omni-stick from www.groovygamegear.com, or the J-Stik, E-Stick, T-Stick, or Euro-Stick from www.ultimarc.com.

In answer to question below - 2-way sticks can be either horizontal (spaceinvaders, galaga, galaxian, Mario Bros. ()) or vertical (Battlezone, Vindicators, Defender).  However, since only two directions are read by the stick, you can play these games pretty well with any joystick (Except it freaks some people out that you can't change directions in Defender with the joystick).

Spinners and trackball-I have no plans to put them on as I play no games that use them.. but just out of curosity what games use them?? how can i find this out to weight the pros vs cons of each control?

Trackball - Centipede, Millipede, Golden Tee Golf, Bowling games, Marble Madness, C.A.B.A.L., Missile command, (others, but these were the highlights)
Spinner - Tempest, Arkanoid, Blasteroids, Warlords, TRON, driving games (if you don't have a wheel), others but these were the highlights

[Tiger-Heli]

since the number of games that use 2 4 ways at the same time u can count on 2 hands.

I'll try for one hand - Karate Champ, Assault (two three-ways, but who want's to be technical), ummm, ummmmm

[GamingGreg]

I think a lot people here would agree that a 4-way somewhere is a MUST.  That could either be a separate 4-way or you could use one of the newer 4/8-way joysticks that are now available.  They are

T-Stik plus
Omnistick

[BeefyD]

I am beginning my CP layout as well, and I believe if you do not want to use up space, a switchable 4/8-way joystick is the best solution.  

On the other side of cp layouts, I have a couple questions...
1. Everyone seems to have their trackball located in the center.  Which set of buttons are you using to "fire" with (centipese, missle command)? Are they too far away comfort-wise? Any help would be greatly appreciated..
2. Robotron, if I remember correctly, had 2 joysticks. Does Mame 'replace' the second joystick with the buttons then?

[GamingGreg]

As far as trackballs go, you can simply use the P1 buttons to the left if your trackball is in the center.  Most likely you'd be using your right hand for the trackball and left hand for the buttons.  This is the simplest and cheapest.

Also you could use the P2 buttons to the right (if you're a "lefty") with some rom INI changes for specific games.  Some have added buttons to the top or bottom of the trackball, but some people feel they get in the way.  Whatever feels "right" to you.

[Tiger-Heli]

1. Everyone seems to have their trackball located in the center.  Which set of buttons are you using to "fire" with (centipese, missle command)? Are they too far away comfort-wise? Any help would be greatly appreciated..
2. Robotron, if I remember correctly, had 2 joysticks. Does Mame 'replace' the second joystick with the buttons then?

Q1 - Sorta depends what you are doing with your CP.  If you want the trackball to navigate in windows, lots of people put arcade buttons mapped to the mouse butttons next to the trackball.  Otherwise, you could use 3 of the player one buttons for FIRE.  If space is a concern AND you need the trackball in windows, you could map three of the P1 buttons to the mouse inputs and then cfg MAME to use Mouse buttons for Player 1.  I don't think spacing is a problem, they were pretty far apart in the original games, and you're using one hand for the T-ball and the other one for the buttons.  Clicking and dragging can be awkward in windows regardless, but that's a function of using an arcade control for a mouse function.
Q2 - According to controls.dat, MAME sets the up as P1_JOYSTICK_LEFT_UP and P1_JOYSTICK_RIGHT_UP (like Assault or Battlezone).  So you might have to remap the MAME defaults to match your panel.  

[NoOne=NBA=]

I like my CP as clean as possible.
Given what I have heard you say you want from your CP, I'd probably go with two switchable 8/4-way sticks and 6 buttons each.

That will let you play the majority of the games you want without cluttering your CP.

And Tiger-Heli left off TWO of my favorite spinner games ever--Star Trek and Omega Race.

[Demon-Seed]

Hey
Thanks guys
I was not aware of Switchable joys may look into that. Not sure on the trackball may be good to use as a mouse.  

thx
Jim

[FractalWalk]

2. Robotron, if I remember correctly, had 2 joysticks. Does Mame 'replace' the second joystick with the buttons then?

Heresy! While you certainly could map buttons in place of a joystick, the game would be unplayable.  2 8-ways, no substitutes.

[BeefyD]

Q1 - Sorta depends what you are doing with your CP.  If you want the trackball to navigate in windows, lots of people put arcade buttons mapped to the mouse butttons next to the trackball.  Otherwise, you could use 3 of the player one buttons for FIRE.  If space is a concern AND you need the trackball in windows, you could map three of the P1 buttons to the mouse inputs and then cfg MAME to use Mouse buttons for Player 1.  I don't think spacing is a problem, they were pretty far apart in the original games, and you're using one hand for the T-ball and the other one for the buttons.  Clicking and dragging can be awkward in windows regardless, but that's a function of using an arcade control for a mouse function.
Q2 - According to controls.dat, MAME sets the up as P1_JOYSTICK_LEFT_UP and P1_JOYSTICK_RIGHT_UP (like Assault or Battlezone).  So you might have to remap the MAME defaults to match your panel.  

Thanks for the sensible answers.  I guess I never really thought about the way I used to play trackball games (other than golden tee).  I've never been so apprehensive about building something. Between the CP layout, Video, and emulator configurations, I'm gonna go crazy. Everything I read seems to confuse me a little more...  

[NoOne=NBA=]

For navigation, I just threw a wireless mouse receiver inside my cab, and use the mouse when needed to navigate stuff.
When not needed, it just sits out of the way and disappears into the clutter surrounding my cab.