Author Topic: hacked up wood control panel - repair it or junk it? (Read 3232 times)

krick · « **on:** March 14, 2004, 03:16:13 am »

The wood control panel on my cabinet was originally a 4 player machine but was later hacked into a 2 player layout. This all happened before I acquired it. Instead of doing this in a sensible way, they just hacked big holes in the wood around the buttons and attached the buttons directly to the plexiglass overlay. The pictures below illustrate what I'm talking about. The white areas are the back side of the vinyl overlay.

I'm designing a new control panel with 4 sticks and a lot of buttons. I'd like to try to salvage my existing control panel rather than make a whole new one from scratch. I really don't have the right tools (jigsaw, table saw, router) to properly make it.

Would it work to strip the panel down to bare wood and fill the holes in with some kind of wood filler / bondo? I'm thinking that I'll have to cut some grooves in the openings parallel to the control panel surface to give the filler something to hold onto. Or possibly drill some holes parallel to the surface and insert small dowels that project into the openings where the filler will go.

I think that my finished panel surface will be covered with plexiglass so I'm not too concerned about people pounding on it and popping the filler through. However, I am concerned about leverage force from joysticks cracking things.

I know someone has been down this road before. Thoughts?

...
Krick

Stingray · « **Reply #1 on:** March 14, 2004, 10:46:08 am »

I'd junk it. Trying to fix it would be more trouble than it's worth, IMO. Much faster to start with a fresh piece of wood.

-S

Edgedamage · « **Reply #2 on:** March 14, 2004, 10:50:08 am »

I second that I had a killer instinct with a huge hole in the middle of the panel. Just use the old one as a template and start fresh.

Ken Layton · « **Reply #3 on:** March 14, 2004, 12:08:49 pm »

I vote for fixing it. Get some Bondo and the fiberglass mesh screening for it to stick to/form.

SirPeale · « **Reply #4 on:** March 14, 2004, 12:38:41 pm »

I gotta vote for 'junk it' too. Wood putty/bondo would just be more work than necessary. Why would you do that, Ken?

Just get a piece of ply the right size, and cut out a new piece with a router and a template bit. Take you all of five minutes. then you can lay out the controls as you see fit.

Ken Layton · « **Reply #5 on:** March 14, 2004, 01:00:27 pm »

Krick said he didn't have the tools to make a fresh one. I've seen panels that were a hundred times worse than what he has now. I've built hundreds of control panels both from scratch and repairing used ones. The one Krick has is one I'd repair. Bondo and a sanding block is what he needs.

SirPeale · « **Reply #6 on:** March 14, 2004, 01:50:50 pm »

Ah yes, missed the proper tools part.

Well, in that case, what I have done in the past is to use a C clamp to hold a flat piece of wood against the top of the panel, and then fill the hole with Bondo. Of course, you will need to 'key' the hole somehow, otherwise the bondo will pop right out. Once the hole is filled with Bondo, 'squeegee' the bottom so it, too is more or less flat, and wait for it to cure. You shouldn't have to prep the top much, if at all. The bottom you may have to scrape a bit down to make it flat.

Stingray · « **Reply #7 on:** March 14, 2004, 01:59:06 pm »

Those holes are too big. Filling them with bondo is just asking for trouble.

-S

NoOne=NBA= · « **Reply #8 on:** March 14, 2004, 02:24:40 pm »

If it were me, and I HAD to fix this, I would probably:

1) Clamp the top to a smooth board (as mentioned above).
2) Fill all the holes from the bottom side with Bondo.
NOTE: Keying the fills by grinding the holes larger on the bottom side would help.
3) Sand the bottom side smooth, and level, to the existing wood.
4) Put a piece of 1/4 plywood across the bottom using contractor's glue.

The ply on the bottom, coupled with the plex on the top should prevent the bondo from breaking loose.
I would really recommend keying them, and would still try to place the sticks in the wood if at all possible though.

Worst case scenario--this doesn't work, and THEN you have to build a replacement.
I would hold off on doing any replacement graphics, until you have thoroughly tested the longevity of any repairs you do though.
If it does break, you'll only be out time, and a little money that way.

crashwg · « **Reply #9 on:** March 14, 2004, 03:08:41 pm »

First thing you should do is find out if there is anyone on this board who lives anywhere near you. Having a lack of tools on this board isn't so much of a problem if you just ask for help. Most people would have no problem letting you come over to chat about the old days, drink a beer and cut out a piece you need withe their router.

Of course if you don't feel comfortable doing that, I'm sure you must know somebody that has a router or saw. Most people don't go arround wearing a sign that says "I have tools at home" so you're gonna have to ask arround.

In case you couldn't tell, I'm against the repair of the old CP, it just seems like it would be more trouble than it's worth...

Vol · « **Reply #10 on:** March 14, 2004, 05:11:57 pm »

Quote from: crashwg on March 14, 2004, 03:08:41 pm

Most people don't go arround wearing a sign that says "I have tools at home" so you're gonna have to ask arround.

LOL! I want a T-shirt that says that!

Ghoward · « **Reply #11 on:** March 14, 2004, 06:00:01 pm »

I would make a new one if I was you, it is never going to hold in the long run if you fill it, those are some big --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules-- holes!.

Buy or borrow the tools you need in the end it will be worth the extra trouble.

Gary

krick · « **Reply #12 on:** March 15, 2004, 07:56:50 pm »

I'm now considering making a new control panel. A few things concern me...

1) the rounded corners
2) the t-moulding groove
3) the bevel at the top of the control panel where it meets the monitor glass

Can all this be done with a router or do I need something else?

I see routers that start around $50 and go up from there. Some are listed as "plunge" routers. What should I look for feature-wise? Who makes quality equipment?

...
Krick

mahuti · « **Reply #13 on:** March 15, 2004, 08:46:54 pm »

For rounding, I use my hasp. It does an excellent job. You have to eyeball it, though. Which doesn't work for some people. I have used my hasp on TONS of jobs around the house.. probably the best $12 I've spent except for my wood clamps.

The back bezel you can cut with a circular saw that way, or a jig saw if you want to keep the price low, but using a jigsaw in a cut that long is asking for waviness.

The t-molding slot you'll need a router for. You can get an add on for a dremel for about $40, or buy a full size router for about $70 +. You'll have to make a custom router guid to keep it the slot the correct distance from the middle.

krick · « **Reply #14 on:** March 16, 2004, 02:45:37 pm »

Well, I picked up a router at Home Depot for $80.

I think this is the model I bought...

http://www.skil.com/Products/Tools/Routers/product.htm?id=1820

It's one of the "plunge" models. I hope that it will work.

Gumby · « **Reply #15 on:** March 16, 2004, 09:18:47 pm »

Could he somehow attach a piece of sheet metal to the top (bolt or glue) to solve the issue? since it will most likely have a CPO plus it will have plexi over it, shouldn't be a sight issue...

might fix/solve the strength issue.

-G

krick · « **Reply #16 on:** March 16, 2004, 09:50:56 pm »

There's an angle at the back of my control panel where it meets the glass. I don't see how I could possibly cut it with a router. I can't find a 60 degree chamfer bit. Any ideas?

SirPeale · « **Reply #17 on:** March 16, 2004, 09:59:15 pm »

Quote from: krick on March 16, 2004, 09:50:56 pm

There's an angle at the back of my control panel where it meets the glass. I don't see how I could possibly cut it with a router. I can't find a 60 degree chamfer bit. Any ideas?

Use a template bit. Put the original on top, the wood on the bottom, and trace around. Viola! A perfect copy.

krick · « **Reply #18 on:** March 16, 2004, 10:03:50 pm »

Quote from: Peale on March 16, 2004, 09:59:15 pm

Quote from: krick on March 16, 2004, 09:50:56 pm
There's an angle at the back of my control panel where it meets the glass. I don't see how I could possibly cut it with a router. I can't find a 60 degree chamfer bit. Any ideas?

Use a template bit. Put the original on top, the wood on the bottom, and trace around. Viola! A perfect copy.

I know about template bits That gets the board cut to the right shape. What I'm asking about is the bevel on the back edge. Unless there's something I'm missing, a template bit won't help. I think what I need to do is flip the board over and use a chamfer bit, however I can't seem to find a 60 degree bit. See this page...
http://www.routerbits.com/cgi-routerbits/sr.cgi?1079492627_25205+33

froggerman · « **Reply #19 on:** March 16, 2004, 10:56:16 pm »

A template bit works fine but is harder to find and is a less flexible bit than using a trim bit. The difference is where the bearing is mounted. The template bit has the bearing at the top, the trim bit has the bearing at the bottom. When using the trim bit to copy something you put the piece you want to copy on the bottom and the new piece of wood on the top. I use a 1/2" diameter 2" long trim bit to do that kind of work. Very useful bit to have.

FractalWalk · « **Reply #20 on:** March 16, 2004, 11:08:17 pm »

You can get 60 degree chamfer bits, but you would be paying a lot for one cut. Use a table saw or circular saw for that. Home Depot could probably do it for you.

FractalWalk · « **Reply #21 on:** March 16, 2004, 11:20:25 pm »

Correction: I don't think they make 60 degree bits, but you can make a 60 degree cut using a 30 degree bit on the perpendicular edge. However, I still wouldn't buy a $30 bit to use only once.

froggerman · « **Reply #22 on:** March 16, 2004, 11:30:16 pm »

You could also build a jig to hold your router at a 30 degree angle from horizontal and just put a straight bit in the router. A bit of a pain in the neck though. Just be careful if you try this. Make sure the the router is held securely.

CitznFish · « **Reply #23 on:** March 17, 2004, 01:23:35 am »

can't you just take a file and file it down pretty easily? just file and test fit?

krick · « **Reply #24 on:** March 17, 2004, 07:07:18 am »

Quote from: FractalWalk on March 16, 2004, 11:08:17 pm

Use a table saw or circular saw for that. Home Depot could probably do it for you.

I assume you mean cutting it on a table saw. I don't think a table saw will do 60 degrees either. So I'd probably have to stand the board on it's edge and cut it on a table saw. That's going to be a major pain keeping it tight against the fence.

krick · « **Reply #25 on:** March 17, 2004, 07:13:19 am »

Quote from: CitznFish on March 17, 2004, 01:23:35 am

can't you just take a file and file it down pretty easily? just file and test fit?

The angled part runs along almost the whole back of the control panel. It's about 26 inches or so. That's a lot of filing. Plus it's MDF. I don't think MDF files that well.

crashwg · « **Reply #26 on:** March 17, 2004, 07:30:52 am »

I'd just go with the 30

SirPeale · « **Reply #27 on:** March 17, 2004, 10:51:29 am »

Ah, now I see. A table saw should be able to do that just fine. Mine has a dial to set the angle. That's how I made the same angle with my CP.

FractalWalk · « **Reply #28 on:** March 17, 2004, 11:17:35 am »

Quote from: krick on March 17, 2004, 07:07:18 am

So I'd probably have to stand the board on it's edge and cut it on a table saw. That's going to be a major pain keeping it tight against the fence.

Yeah, you're right. Maybe you can make a jig to hold it steady: like a box frame.

----------
| |
| |
panel --->| |
|--------|
\ | |
\ |[ ] |
-------------------- <----- table
^
|
|
fence

That might allow you to run it along the fence squarely. If not that, then I'd try a jig to allow a circular saw to cut a 30 degree bevel on the edge.

Wade · « **Reply #29 on:** March 17, 2004, 02:10:40 pm »

Quote from: krick on March 16, 2004, 10:03:50 pm

Quote from: Peale on March 16, 2004, 09:59:15 pm
Quote from: krick on March 16, 2004, 09:50:56 pm
There's an angle at the back of my control panel where it meets the glass. I don't see how I could possibly cut it with a router. I can't find a 60 degree chamfer bit. Any ideas?

Use a template bit. Put the original on top, the wood on the bottom, and trace around. Viola! A perfect copy.

I know about template bits That gets the board cut to the right shape. What I'm asking about is the bevel on the back edge. Unless there's something I'm missing, a template bit won't help. I think what I need to do is flip the board over and use a chamfer bit, however I can't seem to find a 60 degree bit. See this page...
http://www.routerbits.com/cgi-routerbits/sr.cgi?1079492627_25205+33

If you can't find a 60 degree bit, get a 30 degree bit. Clamp the CP to the side of a table or a large board or something else so you have plenty of surface to run the router along without it wobbling.

Wade

krick · « **Reply #30 on:** March 17, 2004, 10:51:25 pm »

Quote from: Wade on March 17, 2004, 02:10:40 pm

If you can't find a 60 degree bit, get a 30 degree bit. Clamp the CP to the side of a table or a large board or something else so you have plenty of surface to run the router along without it wobbling.

Wade

That's an excellent idea. I guess you've had some router experience before.

The only problem I see now is finding a 30 degree bit with a long enough cutting surface. The "face" of the angle is about 1 1/8 inches. What limits things even more is that my router can only handle 1/4" shank bits. All the bits I can find with large cutting areas are 1/2" shank bits.

Unless I can find the right bit, I guess I'm going to have to attempt something with a table saw.

...
Bill

Wade · « **Reply #31 on:** March 18, 2004, 08:47:10 am »

Table saw would work too if you are careful and have access to one. I was just trying to add to the suggestions of to do it with as few tools as possible.

I did a similar cut on my CP with a circular saw. You might not want to buy more tools, but in the long run you'll be glad you did. I only spent about $35 on mine, plus a nice carbide blade (about $10) and it's great for lots of different cuts. Great for 2x4's as well as long cuts in MDF or plywood. All I had before was a jigsaw and it was horrible for that sort of thing.

Good luck!

Wade

krick · « **Reply #32 on:** March 18, 2004, 10:17:03 pm »

Ok, I took the plunge and bought some router bits from https://www.mlcswoodworking.com/

$15.00 #6506 Pattern Flush Trim 1/2" Lrg Dia, 1" Cut L - 1/4" shank
$16.00 #5341 Slot Cutter Complete Assmbly #5341, 1/16" - 1/4" shank
$21.00 #5380 Chamfer bit, 30 Degrees, 1" CL - 1/4" shank
$10.00 #5453 Plunge Cutting Straight 1/2" - 1/4" shank
$ 9.95 #9034 Bit, Blade and Cutter Cleaner
$ 4.95 #9029 Router Bit Bearing Lube
$76.90 Total

The pattern bit is for cutting out the basic shape of my control panel by using my original as a template.

The slot cutter is for the t-molding.

The chamfer bit is for cutting the angle on the back edge.

The plunge bit is for routing out 1/2" on the underside of my control panel for the Ultimarc T-Stick Plus joysticks I plan to put in this thing when I finish.

I know I'm dropping a lot of change on tools. But somehow, I get the feeling this isn't going to be the last JAMMA cabinet I'll be working on.


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