Sticks left vs. sticks right.

[Stingray]

Okay, before the "worst MAME cab" thread got locked there was a fairly interesting hijack going on regarding joystick/ button configuration. I kind of wanted to continue that here.

I'm right handed and I always thought arcade stick placement seemed backward with the stick on the left and the buttons on the right. My personal theory is that they were originally set up this way to make the games harder so they'll eat more quarters.  

When I got the idea to build an arcade setup (before I discovered this board) I never even gave it any thought, and set up my control panel with the sticks on the right and the buttons on the left. Here's a picture: http://www.stingrays.dk/arcade/cpoon1.jpg

Anyone else done it this way? I'm just curious.

As someone in the other thread pointed out, Atari 2600 controllers were set up this way. This prompted me to check my parts box and I found a bunch of Apple ][ controllers that are also set up that way. Since the bulk of my early gaming was done on those two systems, it's no mystery how I developed this preference.

-S

[Nailz]

It's interesting you bring up the Atari 2600, I am able to play any games right handed with the buton on the left if it is a single button game, ie. Atari 2600, etc.  But if there are multiple buttons, it just "feels" right to use my left hand on the joystick and right hands for buttons.  

Maybe it's a dexterity thing, doesn't really require much skill to mash a single button or move the joystick, but at least for me, I am right handed and it's easier to button press with the right hand when you need to do more than one thing, like shot, jump, etc.

[Stingray]

You make a good point there. The vast majority of the games I play mostly use two buttons or less.

-S

[DougHillman]

I tend to agree that one or two button games are fine playing with either hand on the stick.  I do feel more comfortable with left hand controlling the stick and right on the buttons on any games that require alot of presses though.  

This may be totally a matter of conditioning though, in that there really aren't many complicated button games with the sticks on the right.   So maybe it's just a mental comfort thing, and not tied to manual dexterity.  Just what we're used to in the arcades and on home consoles lately.

I play flight sims with a complete Thrustmaster Cougar HOTAS setup and have no problem manipulating multitudes of buttons/switches with both hands.  There's not really any left hand pinky, ring or middle finger action on this replica of the F-16 Falcon throttle, but I came from a CH Products setup that had button presses for all of those fingers.  Never had any trouble pressing them while in a dogfight.

D

[ErikRuud]

It probably has a lot more to do with conditioning than anything else.

I grew up with the single left button/Right stick controllers.  When I first tried out the original NES, I really hated the control pads.

Here is the list of arcarde games that had the stick on the right with buttons on the left.

Starhawk
Gorf cocktail
Gauntlet
Gauntlet2
Mousetrap
Spectar
Targ


These games have the stick on the right, but most do not have buttons on the left.

Double Dragon 3 (Player 3 only)
Discs of Tron (TriggerStick on the right)
Tron (TriggerStick on the right)
Zwackery (TriggerStick on the right)

There are probably a few more that I am not aware of.

[Stingray]

Ditto on the original NES pad. I'm still not nuts about that layout up to and including my PS2 pads.

-S

[ErikRuud]

I got used to it when I got my own Sega Genesys, but I still made my cabinet with the buttons on the left.

[GamingGreg]

Ultimately I think this comes down to personal preference, but here's my thoughts on the why they are on the right now in the arcades (I could be way off on this):  

Generally most people are right handed and are more agile (better fine motor skills) in that hand.  I think in the early days, since there was only one or two buttons being used, the joystick was placed on the right, as that was the control that needed more agility.  Then with the advent of games that needed more buttons, such as fighting games, the decision was made to move these to the right, as it takes more agility to move around the buttons than to move the stick.  Again, I could be way off on this, but that's the way I see it.

[FractalWalk]

I believe it is a dexterity issue. I am right handed and consistently use my right hand for the more complex/sensitive movements. For example, in Galaga, the fire buttom requires a more sensitive hand than the joystick and so I fire with the right. But in Donkey Kong, the joystick movements are more critical and so I use my left hand for jumping. Trackballs and spinners are always in my right hand because they require better dexterity.  

I don't consciously think about this, I just naturally choose the controls that way.

[ErikRuud]

GamingGreg,

Your theory is probably correct for the old consoles, but in the old days many single player games had duplicate sets of buttons on each side of the stick.

I scanned through the CPO packs, and I was surprised by the number of two player games that left and right button sets for both players.  Most of those have no more than three buttons.

[isugoat]

like the others, I prefer the left hand stick/ right hand buttons probably due to conditioning.  if you plan on making the cab the opposite way you might want to consider that your friends are probably conditioned to the left stick setup too and they probably are gonna hate playing any other way since they won't have as much time on the cp to get used to it as you do.

[ErikRuud]

I have had dozens of people play on my cab, only one person complained.  The rest didn't seem to be bothered by it at all.

I also have most one player and alternating games set up so that both sets of buttons can be used.

[Stingray]

I also have most one player and alternating games set up so that both sets of buttons can be used.

So do I. I did this for my brother in law who I saw trying to play with his hands crossed so he could get his left hand on the joystick. Nobody else seems to mind.

-S

[u_rebelscum]

I'm a rightly (& probably do to conditioning, also); here's my feelings:

Atari 2600: Love the stick right, button left thumb.  I grew up on this.  Only problem is there's only one button.

Arcade digital stick & 1 button:  (Includes 2 buttons but only one is primary button) Usually ambi, and sometimes I swap in between levels just for the fun of it if buttons are mirrored on both sides of stick.  Two exceptions:

Button(s) need rapid presses: I'm faster with my right, but I like to swap when my right gets tired.  Once it's rested, I swap back to using my right for buttons.

Rotary stick: Right is much better at spinning the rotary, and feel more relaxed with right on rotary.  Can survive with rotary on left side, though.  My WIP two player rotary CP has 2 buttons on each side of both sticks.

Arcade digital & 2 buttons:  Depends on game.  Usually stick left, buttons right, but not always.  Some games I can swap.  And a couple I like buttons left, stick right for some reason.  (Don't remember which ones ATM)

Arcade digital stick & three or more buttons: Standard stick left, buttons left.

Trackball: trackball right, buttons left, except when spinning the ball right or down-right.  Left gets faster spin in those two directions.  My one trackball test CP has buttons both sides; my two trackball CP has button to left of the TBs (couldn't fit on both sides).

Spinner: spiner right, buttons left.  Planning to have buttons on both sides of the spinners on my two spinner CP.

Trigger/thumb stick: feels nicer with right, but I actually play better with my left if only a trigger button.  If both trigger & thumb button, right wins both in feel and preformance.  My 2 player thumb & trigger stick CP has buttons on both sides of both sitick.

Analog stick: Same as trigger stick.

Gamepads: dislike left thumb d-pad/stick, buttons right thumb, but can survive if there is one primary button.  Once there is two primary buttons, or four or more total buttons, or trugger buttons, I suck with a gmaepad.  In all cases, I always do better with full-size stick left & buttons right than any gamepad I have tried.

Mouse & keyboard: mouse right, keyboard left.

[MadEditor]

Speaking of ATARI 2600

This is very interesting, because i just realized that even if the button was LEFT i used my right hand on it !!!

In fact i grabbed the base with my hand on top of it and pushed the button with my index... At least i remember paying Decathlon this way...

haa memories...

[NoOne=NBA=]

I actually modified my Atari sticks so that I had some left-handed ones around when my hands got tired of using them "normally".
It's just a matter of rotating the disconnects so that what WAS Left is now up, etc...
That puts the fire button on the top-right of the base.

I actually did alot of "experimenting" with the Atari sticks to make them more comfortable for long play sessions.
I took a bit off the stick height-wise, did various screw/glue experiments to make a Battlezone controller out of them, etc...
My first ever CP was actually an Atari stick hack to make an Asteroids CP back in 1981.
It was ugly, but it worked.

I also made alot of other game-specific controllers for it and my Colecovision.
I had a two stick system that used AND/OR circuits to control games like Robot Tank.
I had a really nice pinball controller that had flippers and nudges for Video Pinball.
 
My most ambitious CP to date though, was an absolute mangling of an entire 2600 to build a "Space Shuttle" controller.
Alot of the controls used in-game on Space Shuttle were the game function controls on the 2600 itself (things like the difficulty switches and B/W switch).
A lot of patience, and a few rolls of solder-braid later, and I'd remoted all those controls to the new CP.
That one was beyond ugly, and left the 2600 torn to pieces; but it made the game alot more engrossing because I didn't have to leave the visual of the "flight board" to go hunt down a switch somewhere on the 2600.

Before anybody comes and hunts me down, I did that controller in 1986 while they were still SELLING 2600's; and used one I bought at a pawn shop to boot.

In answer to the sticks right/left question.
I'm left-handed, and PREFER the stick left.
If a game requires alot of button pushing, I NEED the stick left to keep from wearing myself out. (Too many games like Asteroids, I guess).
For games where an additional control (T-ball, Spinner) is used, I prefer the stick right.

[mushmouth]

I was originally going to do the stick right, buttons left thing with my swappable panels but kind of got sucked into a more traditionalist line of thinking. Which, in hindsight, is relative anyway.

The fact is most of us grew up playing a combination of arcade and console games, always having to adapt to a new control surface. Console systems were the worst in this respect... Every new system required a completely new getting-to-know-you period with a never ending changing of button/thumbpad/thumbstick/arrows positioning.

What I've learned since finishing my first machine is that no matter how you set it up, that's what you'll adapt to. And QUICKLY, just like every new set of controls you've been confronted with.

Do what feels right for YOU. Most of all, do what feels COMFORTABLE. That's my 2 cents.

[MinerAl]

When I play joystick-only games, I play with my right hand.  Never even considered playing pac-man with the left hand... even though the button array is on the left of the stick.

[PacManFan]

I trade off between left and right handed play. What's cool is my wife is left handed, so I built a symetrical control panel, with the left stick having buttons o nthe right, and the right stick w/ buttons on the left.

-PMF

[paigeoliver]

My Gorf cocktail Mame has the stick on right and buttons on left, and at least one of my friends actually crosses his hands over backwards to play the thing.

I don't cross my hands over to play that one, but I certainly score higher in some games on my cabinets with more traditional control configurations.

I actually DO cross my hands over in the arcade when playing those Marvel Vs. Capcom Vs. Streetfighter Vs. SNK type games in the arcade. It is simply because those are button mash games, and I have more endurance/speed in my left hand (due to years of "left hand mouse, right hand keyboard).

[Tiger-Heli]

Good comments, Urebel.  Thought I would contrast my preferences.

I'm a rightly (& probably do to conditioning, also); here's my feelings:

I'm a southpaw, but tend to like the traditional layouts.  (I.E. for most games I prefer Stick Left, buttons right, including Pac-Man).  Here are the exceptions.

Atari 2600: Love the stick right, button left thumb.  I grew up on this.  Only problem is there's only one button.

Haven't played this in years - Can't remember if I used the stick right, or if I held the base in my right hand and used my right index finger to press the button.  Might have depended on the game I was playing.

Arcade digital stick & 1 button:

As I said above, I like stick left, button right.  

Rotary stick:

Prefer stick on left, buttons right.

Trackball: trackball right, buttons left, except when spinning the ball right or down-right.  Left gets faster spin in those two directions.  My one trackball test CP has buttons both sides; my two trackball CP has button to left of the TBs (couldn't fit on both sides).

Definitely prefer trackball left, buttons right.  (Remember having to cross my hands over when playing Centipede).

Spinner: spiner right, buttons left.  Planning to have buttons on both sides of the spinners on my two spinner CP.

Agreed spinner right, buttons left.  Possibly conditioned from Tempest. At least that's how I remember playing it.  Maybe I should find an actual Tempest game before I commit to my spinner module.

Trigger/thumb stick: feels nicer with right, but I actually play better with my left if only a trigger button.  If both trigger & thumb button, right wins both in feel and preformance.  My 2 player thumb & trigger stick CP has buttons on both sides of both sitick.

Feels better left.  I never played much TRON, but I think I would cross hands on it.

Mouse & keyboard: mouse right, keyboard left.

mouse left, keyboard right, but I don't do that thing with the buttons swapped around, though.