What joystick(s) should I get?

[spauldingd]

I need advice.  I'm building a cab that will split duty between my favorite classic games and some of the new PC games I enjoy.  80% of the classics would require a simple 4-way.  And I would really like to have a pair of them for my favorite 2-player Joust.

I've thought of having 2 8-way and a single 4-way like most people have, but I really would like 2 4-ways.  Are the 4/8 way switchable sticks the way to go?  Are they easy to switch?  Which one would work best for me?

I look forward to any suggestions on the stick I should buy.  The wife is a huge Ms. Pac Man nut (aren't they all?) so I must have the dedicated or easily switchable 4-way stick for her.

[Nailz]

Yep, teh 4/8 ways are the way to go man.  Sounds like you guys like the the older stuff, so I'd recommend going with the Ultimarc T-stick Plus with the ball tops.  From what everyone says, they are easy to switch and the ball top retains that classic joystick look.

Plua, with only needing 2 sticks, you will have room for that spinner and trackball you know you want.  

[spauldingd]

Thanks Nailz, we definately like the old stuff.  1984 was when I played the most and seem to come back to now.  Joust & Dig Dug, what else do you need?

[Apollo]

How about a dedicated 8 way on the left ( Happs competition? ) a MsPac/Galag 4 way in the middle and a switchable 8/4 way on the left?

[Doc-]

I have a nice cabinet with Ultimate joysticks, but I want to add a 4 way dedicated joystick to it.

I did a search, but did not find any opinions on which 4 way joystick was the best.

Does anyone have an opinion on which 4 way dedicated joystick would be best for games like pac-man, frogger, etc?

[NOP]

I own 2 of the t-stick pluses (4/8 way switchable) from ultimarc, and I am sad to say they are *not* what you want if you want to play ms pacman.

The throw is extremely short on these joysticks and the springs are extrememly resistant.  You'll wear your arm out trying to get the ole chomper moving around in the maze.  I also had a hard time moving around in the maze even though I was in 4 way mode.  

They are quite good for frogger and kangaroo, probably for robotron too (I only have a vertical screen) but for donkey kong, mario bros, ms pacman and anything else that required a joystick that moved more than 1mm in any direction, the t-sticks just won't feel right.

I will probably be purchasing a replacement ms pacman true 4 way joystick to solve this problem.

Don't get me wrong, I do like the t-stick's, but they don't feel quite right on the oldies.

-jeff!

[spauldingd]

Would the dedicated 4-way in the middle offer any improvement over a 4/8 T-Stick Plus in the 4-way position?  I may go that route, but in trying to keep the panel elegant, if I can get away with 2 sticks with a spinner and trackball in the middle, I think that would look the best, but I don't want to give up good gameplay.  Mainly I want to know if the 4/8 switchable offers no compromises in performance.

I always play with the spinner and trackball with my right hand, so I think re-using the player 1 buttons on the left of center would work well too.

Those ball-top replacements for the T-stik plus don't come cheap do they!

[spauldingd]

Thanks Jeffly, I really need something good for Ms. Pacman and other maze style games.  Perhaps the dedicated center 4-way is the only really good option.  So, perhaps a pair of Happs Competition or Ultimarc T-stiks and a dedicated 4-way, but exactly which 4-way?

I really appreciate all this advice.  I've played the games for 25 years, but I never knew what brand or style of stick each game had, so I am in the dark.

Dave

[Nailz]

I own 2 of the t-stick pluses (4/8 way switchable) from ultimarc, and I am sad to say they are *not* what you want if you want to play ms pacman.

The throw is extremely short on these joysticks and the springs are extrememly resistant.  You'll wear your arm out trying to get the ole chomper moving around in the maze.  I also had a hard time moving around in the maze even though I was in 4 way mode.  

They are quite good for frogger and kangaroo, probably for robotron too (I only have a vertical screen) but for donkey kong, mario bros, ms pacman and anything else that required a joystick that moved more than 1mm in any direction, the t-sticks just won't feel right.

I will probably be purchasing a replacement ms pacman true 4 way joystick to solve this problem.

Don't get me wrong, I do like the t-stick's, but they don't feel quite right on the oldies.

-jeff!

Hey Jeff, a question for you on the T-sticks, you mention they have a short throw, don't the Pac-Man/Ms. Pac also have that short throw?  I had a Pac-Man up until about 6 months ago, and it always felt like it was less that the 8 way Wico on my Mame cab.  Admittedly, I am waiting on T-sticks so I can't compare....  so you are saying that the throw of the Pac is somwhere between a T-stick and say, a Happs ultimate?

Thanks

[NOP]

Hey Jeff, a question for you on the T-sticks, you mention they have a short throw, don't the Pac-Man/Ms. Pac also have that short throw?  I had a Pac-Man up until about 6 months ago, and it always felt like it was less that the 8 way Wico on my Mame cab.  Admittedly, I am waiting on T-sticks so I can't compare....  so you are saying that the throw of the Pac is somwhere between a T-stick and say, a Happs ultimate?

Thanks

Unfortunately, I'm in no position to answer that.  This is my first MAME project and I don't know what happs ultimates or wico sticks feel like.  (unless you can point me to a game that uses 'em, then I'll head down to my local gameworks and compare)

The only thing I have to compare the t-sitcks against is the original leaf switch sticks that came with my galaga cabinet!

It might not be so much the amount of throw of the stick, but the stiffness of the centering springs that make it feel weird vs a real pacman stick.  T-sticks are very tight.  It might be simply that they are new or I need to find some adjustments to make them easier to work with.  I'm also using them on a cocktail machine, so it's not easy to get your entire hand around the ball top to move the thing around. (not much room between the glass and ball top)

So now I'm interested in getting your comparison when your t's show up vs your wico.  

-jeff!

[GamingGreg]

I built my cabinet before the easily switchable joysticks came out, so I have two 8-ways and a dedicated 4-way.  I would go with two 4/8-way joysticks now if I did it again.  

Aslo you mentioned you'd be using your cabinet to play some PC games, so if there's room you could put an analog stick in there for those.  It would also help with arcade games that used an analog stick.  It could be an arcade analog, or PC flight stick, or even a simple PC joystick.  Just a thought.

[Doc-]

Greg,
  I want to install a dedicated 4-way (already have two 8 ways) - but which 4 way is the one to use for pac-man?  

  I've been looking but there are not a lot of great options.  The Happs pac-man style ones are metal mount (I have a wood panel - so these are too short).   Wico leaf styles seem to be preferred but are not widely available anymore.

  Some of the commercial vendors seem to use the Happ Ultimate 4 way sticks, but I have not been able to get much feedback on these - do you think these would be a good option for some of the older games?

  What are you using for a dedicated 4-way?  Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[spauldingd]

I have a Logitech Wingman Digital Extreme that I will probably pull out for PC gaming but don't want to dedicate space to it on the control panel.

The $64,000 dollar question seems to be what is the ideal 4-way for Ms. Pacman.

Dave

[Sephroth57]

the ideal 4 way for ms pacman would be the new mspacman 4way you can get on www.therealbobroberts.com for about 26$ if i remember. ive played on one of these and they feel awesome. On my "classic" swappable CP which im building next, I will have a mspac 4way on the left, trackball in the middle, spinner on the right, with buttons in between the trackball/spinner

[spauldingd]

Thanks Sephroth57, I haven't been able to access therealbobroberts.com today to look around.  Do you know if he carries a 4/8 switchable as well?

[OSCAR]

The Happ Ms. Pac/Galaga reunion joystick is the best dedicated 4-way joystick available today, IMO.  It is definitely worth the extra work to install it into a wood panel, you won't find a better joystick for the Pac games.

[spauldingd]

How do you go about installing it in a wood cabinet?  Do you have to fabricate your own mount?

[AndyWarne]

I own 2 of the t-stick pluses (4/8 way switchable) from ultimarc, and I am sad to say they are *not* what you want if you want to play ms pacman.

The throw is extremely short on these joysticks and the springs are extrememly resistant.  

Jeff if you drop me an email I'll send a kit of the lighter-action microswitches for the T-Stik which you can try. I'd be interested in feedback.
Andy

[GamingGreg]

Mortalpawn,

I have just a standard Happ's Ultimate 4-way in my cabinet.  It's an "all right" joystick and it works fine for pac-man.  However I'd have to agree with the others that the best 4-way for pacman would be the "Happ Ms. Pac/Galaga reunion joystick".  I believe that's also the same one that Bob Roberts is selling (he probably has a better price too).  It's made for a metal control panel, so it's a bit diffucult to mount on wood.  I believe Bob also has a mounting plate you can use to mount it on a wood panel.

[patrickl]

I just installed a 4-way ms pacman/galaga replacement joystick  in my Galaga standalone testpanel. I have to say, I like the T-Stick+ better. I actually think the throw on the 4-way pac/gal replacement joy is way to long. Especially for such a short handle. The T-sticks short throw allows for much faster responses. I can't se why you would you want a longer throw  

BTW, I bought the stick from MikesArcade.com for $18 but they didn't have many in stock.

Apart from the pac/gal replacements being a bit more work to built in, I ended up having a lot of trouble getting the dust cover under the top cover of the CP. There is an e-clip just below the dustcover that will lift up the dustcover and get stuck. Maybe someone has a solution to this but I ended up skipping the dustcover altogether (which is probably a bad thing). btw putting the dustcover on top of the CP is of course not an option



I guess it's a matter of taste, but the T-stick+ suits me much better. I also love the ingenious way it switches from 4 to 8 way. Incredibly clever. It's the best switching option available for sure.

One problem with the T-sticks is that they're outrageously expensive, but that's largely because I opted for the quiet microswitch kit and the red balltops. Of course I had to have a red balltop on my Galaga (or for that matter MsPacman) style cab. I thought I saw mention of  a J-stick plus, but I couldn't find it again when I went to order.

As far as balltops go. I'm also not too keen on the matte look of the balltop. Can't remember if Galaga originally had a matte balltop, but I like a shiny ball better. The red color of the T-Stick balltop replacement is also gorgeous. It's a bit darker (blood red) than the 4-way replacement (which is more bright red) I also don't understand why the balltop of the 4-way replacement is flat on the underside of the ball. It looks kinda weird.

The T-stick:
+ looks better
+ is easier to build in
+ feels better (to me anyway)
+ is more versatile
+ is really ingenious (your friends will be amazed when you switch it)
- costs a lot more
- makes more noise

[Doc-]

I'd love to install the Happs galaga in my existing cabinet but unfortunately there is zero room for an adaptor plate (the existing layout is already tight) and I have a wood panel.   I would have to cut and wire a completely new panel to do it.

I do have just enough room for any of the regular joysticks.

Any opinions on a Wico 4-way leaf switch stick?  I've seen some positive feedback in the past - and I may be able to get one from a friend.

Mortalpawn

[patrickl]

I mounted my "happs galaga" without a mounting plate. I guess you need a router to do it though.

See Oscar's drawing of how to mount it It does need something to cover it up though. Like plexi/lexan or (as in my case) a thin sheet of MDF.

[PaulG]

In defense of the T-Stik Plus (I ordered just before the "quit" microswitches were available. Like 1 day.), I don't think they require a lot of force to play.  I also like the short throw because they're great for the older games (and shooters).  I'll occassionally play a Capcom fighter, but because I suck so badly, if the joystick is less than ideal, I'm clueless about it.

[DeathDealer]

I like the T-stick, they have a solid feel to them.
I also have 2 happ joy stick, and to me they feel too soft, I have a super and a ultimate and they both feel kind of soft to me, but my friend like the feel of the happ,  I think it's all about what you like its your Cab.
                                 
                                             Just my 2 cents. DD

[paigeoliver]

Ok, here is my 7 cents.

I own (or have owned) all of the following "4-way" joysticks.

Ms. Pac/Galaga reunion stick
True Wico 4-way
Wico 8-way with 4-way actuator.
Q*bert (I THINK it is a qbert stick, the raised bezel area is the EXACT size of said area on my NOS qbert overlay).
Universal 4-way (the ones used in the Mr. Do! series in the early 80s, not the same as the Happ model of the same name).
Happ's Universal (switches between true 4-way and 8-way operation).
Happ's super in 4-way mode.
Unknown bat top happs in 4-way mode (this is either competion or ultimate, unsure as to which).
ATW 4-way (resembles Atari 2600 stick).
Nintendo 4-way (Popeye, Donkey Kong, etc)


The Ms. Pac/Galaga replacement stick is number one with a bullet. Easily the best all around stick in the bunch. Some other sticks might be better for specific games, but nothing beats this one as an all around stick.

The true wico 4-way would be second place.

Followed by the Q'Bert stick.

Followed by the Mr. Do! Universal stick (nice stick, but has long throw and soft springs, not really suited to the pac games, but great for Mr. Do games.

Followed by the Nintendo 4-way (clunky feeling).

Happ's Universal in true 4-way mode. Would rate higher, but this one loses points for having a noticeably longer throw in 4-way mode, not bad overall though.

Followed by the ATW 4-way. (very exact, and shortest throw I have ever seen, but the handle is not comfortable to hold, and it shatters microswitches under hard use).

Next up are the also rans in order of 4-way preference. All of these suffer from either lack of diamond pattern and dead zones.

Classic wico with 4-way actuator.
Happs super in 4-way mode.
Other happs in 4-way mode.


Also, someone mentioned Kangaroo earlier, which is an 8-way game, not a 4-way game, you wouldn't be able to pass the second screen without an 8-way (you literally wouldn't, as several diagonal movements are required on that screen).

[patrickl]

I own (or have owned) all of the following "4-way" joysticks.
... snip ...

You should try a T-Stick plus. I feel, it beats the MsPac/Gal hands down. Allthough I can't say too much about 8-way games since I rarely play them.

One thing about the microswitches though. Someone noticed the stiff springs in the T+. I bought the quiet switches with the T+ stick and they seem to offer a bit less resistance. I put back the original ones and they make the stick a little bit stiffer. Weird I guess, but then I like the quiet ones better anyway. Apparently the added bonus is that they are a bit lighter to switch.

[Doc-]

Thanks very much!
  I appreciate the feedback.  I think I will try to get a Wico 4 way leaf stick since the pac man reunion stick would be very difficult to install in my existing setup.

  I'll let you know in a few weeks how it turns out!