GPU for Mame

[iiamsiincere]

Hello
I’m hoping to get some help with a project that I’ve been working on.

What I’m trying to do:
Ultimately, I’d like to play mame games on my CRT and utilize just two power outlets to do so (Basically, Comp -> GPU -> CRT). I mainly want to play games that MiSTer currently does not have a core for. I understand that this is a very specific use case scenario. I have a Radeon HD 5770/R9 280X that I’ve gone through the CRT Emudriver/Atom-15 process with and they work well (but don’t fit what I’m trying to accomplish) and I have a MiSTer (and am aware of MiSTer Cast, but again, doesn’t do what I’m hoping to do).

What I have done:
I had a setup previously that was my Comp -> GPU -> Transcoder -> CRT. Although it worked, I never ended up liking that setup. I have one transcoder from the user Zebidee, one from Aliexpress that does pretty much the same thing and one from TVOne (1T-C2-400). The first two were very straight forward and worked but utilize a separate power source (Technically since they both have USB-C outs for power, I could connect them to a PC, but I’m unsure if that’s enough power or not). The TVOne works well but needs a level of configuration that can get pretty confusing but again, requires its own power source.

The games I’m trying to play:
I’d like to play pretty much any arcade game up to SFIII/Garou Mark of the Wolves/Martial Masters. It’s not important if I Can do 3D but it be nice to do Sega Model, Konami Racers (like GTI Club) or Midway based games. Although it isn’t important, it be also nice to be able to play Arcade PC Ports that can’t be emulated (Like Hydro Thunder) or PC games from the XP era.

What I do know:
-- I currently have 3 GPU’s that have TVOut/S-Video output. 2, nvidia models (Geforce 6600 and GTX 275) can output S-Video and Component 480i natively (60hz in WinXP and 30hz in Win Vista/7). The ATI (Radeon HD 3870) can only output S-Video 480i natively. When I try component, it has a greenish tint, regardless of the version of OS.
-- GroovyArcade and GroovyMame are designed to work better with ATI/AMD, so I would assume that neither of my nVidia GPU’s will help me achieve the goal I’m trying to achieve.
-- I’ve read that Mame focuses more on your CPU rather than the GPU. I have an i7-3770. I also have an i7-4790k but the board that uses it has been causing me some issues, so for now, I only have the 3770 to install Windows XP on with zero issues.
-- On the ATI side, any version of Catalyst 10 seems to be the sweet spot for my HD 3870 where it’s a functional driver that provides solid benchmarks for PC games (3D Mark 2002-2007) while also allowing me access to the Catalyst Control Center to utilize the TV Out functions (like automatically detecting component/S-Video connection when starting the PC). If I install newer drivers (not sure the exact version) I lose access to CCC, which I would prefer to have access to in order to troubleshoot video issues.
-- I’ve tried the CRT EmuDriver setup on my HD 3870 and encountered issues. I install the Catalyst drivers and when I go to atom-15, I realize that regardless if I choose 15kHz or 15+31kHz, I no longer gain picture. I also lose access to the Catalyst Control Center. I do notice that prior to the EmuDriver method, when I have version 10 of Catalyst Suite, the computer starts up and displays the BIOS post screen with no issues, so I’m not fully sure that I need atom-15 in this instance.
-- Although I don’t mind S-Video output, I Would like to know how to get component working for this card (if at all possible) and if there are any mods, bios mods or software that can control that functionality of the card (similar to ones like modelines, atiflash or any other program that allows you to mod your GPU).

What I’d like to get help with:
-- What is the minimum AMD GPU I can use that has TV Out? I’m trying to see if I use an earlier model of ATI with S-Video out, if I Can take advantage of the Component output while also being able to play the games with no issue. Would the HD 2000 series cause issues? Would the X1000 series be too far back? Also, would those GPUs have 240p? I am guessing that the point of the CRT EmuDriver is that it gives your ATI/AMD GPU the ability to do resolutions as low as 240p but also be able to be flexible with the variety of resolutions used throughout different arcade (correct me if I’m wrong).
-- If I’m using Windows XP and GroovyMame, does it matter that I use ATI/AMD or can I use nVidia or is it that nVidia can’t output anything under 480i?
-- If I stick to using my Radeon HD 3870 (as it can run Mame on Windows XP with no issues) will it be that noticeable of a difference from GroovyMame?

Thank you to those who have read this and to those who can provide useful information.

[Zebidee]

You are going about things the wrong way.

First: TVout cards will never give you 240p via the component/svideo/composite video outputs.

The signal only comes out in an interlaced mode (typically 640x480i for maximum flexibility, as most PC VGA monitors at that time could simultaneously show that as 640x480p). They were designed mostly the workplace, where you might want to show a video, charts or a powerpoint presentation during training sessions and meetings. That kind-of-thing. Not really very good for, or intended for, gaming or as a second work screen.

Now, it is actually possible to hack these TVout cards, and force them into outputting component @ 240p via the VGA head. I know because I did so nearly 20 years ago. It was a terribly arcane process. I had an ATI "Sapphire" 9650 (AGP slot!) bought new, a specialised dongle (VGA-Component) that came with the card, WinXP and some proprietary video mode software "Powerstrip" by Entech. The software was never continued past XP and Entech does not exist anymore, though there are probably old copies floating about.

Anyway, here is an abbreviated origin story. Back then (2006/7), this was the only way to do 240p component-out. Decent RGB-component transcoders cost ridiculous amounts, around US$250 (anyone remember Shinybow?), and this experience is why I thought to design/build GreenAntz transcoders. Because I believed nobody should have to go through the same crap I did to do arcade games on a component TV.

In other words, you don't need bother with TV-out or arcane hacking. GreenAntz is specifically designed to save you this hassle.

What I’m trying to do:
Ultimately, I’d like to play mame games on my CRT and utilize just two power outlets to do so (Basically, Comp -> GPU -> CRT). I mainly want to play games that MiSTer currently does not have a core for. I understand that this is a very specific use case scenario.

I don't understand the issue. You say "power outlets", do you really mean video outputs? You want to be able to quickly and easily swap between PC and Mister?

Have you considered a KVM (Keyboard+video+mouse) VGA switch? KVMs are cheap and are great for quickly changing inputs between devices. You can have PC+ Mister, their own separate controls, outputting to just one transcoder and one CRT. There are different flavours, here is one:
https://www.amazon.com/Selector-Switcher-Sharing-Monitor-Keyboard/dp/B077QC7GNV?th=1

I have a Radeon HD 5770/R9 280X that I’ve gone through the CRT Emudriver/Atom-15 process with and they work well (but don’t fit what I’m trying to accomplish) and I have a MiSTer (and am aware of MiSTer Cast, but again, doesn’t do what I’m hoping to do).

TBH, it seems pretty sweet so far.

What I have done:
I had a setup previously that was my Comp -> GPU -> Transcoder -> CRT. Although it worked, I never ended up liking that setup. I have one transcoder from the user Zebidee, one from Aliexpress that does pretty much the same thing and one from TVOne (1T-C2-400). The first two were very straight forward and worked but utilize a separate power source (Technically since they both have USB-C outs for power, I could connect them to a PC, but I’m unsure if that’s enough power or not). The TVOne works well but needs a level of configuration that can get pretty confusing but again, requires its own power source.

GreenAntz consumes very little power (around 80-85mA @ 5v, so about 0.4W), and works best when it shares the same power supply as the video source (minimises ground-level cross interference). Most commonly powered directly from PC via USB 2.0 to USB-C cable. GreenAntz does provide 5v and GND landing pads, but that is more for flexibility in arcade cab applications. If the KVM has a spare USB port (like the one linked), I imagine you could power it from there. With the KVM you only need one transcoder.

The Aliexpress one is similar as it is a ripoff of an old pre-GreenAntz design we were kicking around - does the job, but was something we thought was too crap to sell!  Oh well 

Attached a pic of a KVM switch - check your favourite online retailers.

[iiamsiincere]

You are going about things the wrong way.

First: TVout cards will never give you 240p via the component/svideo/composite video outputs.

The signal only comes out in an interlaced mode (typically 640x480i for maximum flexibility, as most PC VGA monitors at that time could simultaneously show that as 640x480p). They were designed mostly the workplace, where you might want to show a video, charts or a powerpoint presentation during training sessions and meetings. That kind-of-thing. Not really very good for, or intended for, gaming or as a second work screen.

Now, it is actually possible to hack these TVout cards, and force them into outputting component @ 240p via the VGA head. I know because I did so nearly 20 years ago. It was a terribly arcane process. I had an ATI "Sapphire" 9650 (AGP slot!) bought new, a specialised dongle (VGA-Component) that came with the card, WinXP and some proprietary video mode software "Powerstrip" by Entech. The software was never continued past XP and Entech does not exist anymore, though there are probably old copies floating about.

Anyway, here is an abbreviated origin story. Back then (2006/7), this was the only way to do 240p component-out. Decent RGB-component transcoders cost ridiculous amounts, around US$250 (anyone remember Shinybow?), and this experience is why I thought to design/build GreenAntz transcoders. Because I believed nobody should have to go through the same crap I did to do arcade games on a component TV.

In other words, you don't need bother with TV-out or arcane hacking. GreenAntz is specifically designed to save you this hassle.

What I’m trying to do:
Ultimately, I’d like to play mame games on my CRT and utilize just two power outlets to do so (Basically, Comp -> GPU -> CRT). I mainly want to play games that MiSTer currently does not have a core for. I understand that this is a very specific use case scenario.

I don't understand the issue. You say "power outlets", do you really mean video outputs? You want to be able to quickly and easily swap between PC and Mister?

Have you considered a KVM (Keyboard+video+mouse) VGA switch? KVMs are cheap and are great for quickly changing inputs between devices. You can have PC+ Mister, their own separate controls, outputting to just one transcoder and one CRT. There are different flavours, here is one:
https://www.amazon.com/Selector-Switcher-Sharing-Monitor-Keyboard/dp/B077QC7GNV?th=1

I have a Radeon HD 5770/R9 280X that I’ve gone through the CRT Emudriver/Atom-15 process with and they work well (but don’t fit what I’m trying to accomplish) and I have a MiSTer (and am aware of MiSTer Cast, but again, doesn’t do what I’m hoping to do).

TBH, it seems pretty sweet so far.

What I have done:
I had a setup previously that was my Comp -> GPU -> Transcoder -> CRT. Although it worked, I never ended up liking that setup. I have one transcoder from the user Zebidee, one from Aliexpress that does pretty much the same thing and one from TVOne (1T-C2-400). The first two were very straight forward and worked but utilize a separate power source (Technically since they both have USB-C outs for power, I could connect them to a PC, but I’m unsure if that’s enough power or not). The TVOne works well but needs a level of configuration that can get pretty confusing but again, requires its own power source.

GreenAntz consumes very little power (around 80-85mA @ 5v, so about 0.4W), and works best when it shares the same power supply as the video source (minimises ground-level cross interference). Most commonly powered directly from PC via USB 2.0 to USB-C cable. GreenAntz does provide 5v and GND landing pads, but that is more for flexibility in arcade cab applications. If the KVM has a spare USB port (like the one linked), I imagine you could power it from there. With the KVM you only need one transcoder.

The Aliexpress one is similar as it is a ripoff of an old pre-GreenAntz design we were kicking around - does the job, but was something we thought was too crap to sell!  Oh well 

Attached a pic of a KVM switch - check your favourite online retailers.

A. That sucks. I guess until someone magically figures it out, I'll be stuck with a "middle man" in the process.
B. Power Outlet, as in the plug that goes into the wall and provides electricity.
C. I guess I'll just connect the GreenAntz to the extra USB port I have for power.
D. I'm not an electrician but thus far, the aliexpress version was very spot on. I'm sure someone can do heavy research and find inconsistencies but I purchased it within the last 5 years, so it could have been a revision of one of the copies from the 2010s/2000s.
E. Thanks for responding back

[Zebidee]

A. That sucks. I guess until someone magically figures it out, I'll be stuck with a "middle man" in the process.
B. Power Outlet, as in the plug that goes into the wall and provides electricity.
C. I guess I'll just connect the GreenAntz to the extra USB port I have for power.
D. I'm not an electrician but thus far, the aliexpress version was very spot on. I'm sure someone can do heavy research and find inconsistencies but I purchased it within the last 5 years, so it could have been a revision of one of the copies from the 2010s/2000s.
E. Thanks for responding back

I confess that I don't really understand what you are trying to do, or at least why. Nobody is going to work out how to get 240p from the TVout in one of those cards. If it was possible, it would have been done by now.

Why won't a KVM and normal VGA out do what you need?

FWIW, you have both the Aliexpress clone and the newer GreenAntz v1.94, so you can do your own side-by-side, or one-after-the-other comparisons. Colour depth/consistency/saturation in particular. Regarding your timeline, GreenAntz came out in early 2020. Ali SCART-input clones starting emerging after that, but they hadn't solved the composite sync problem (it wasn't in the schematic they cribbed). By 2022 they had worked out how to combine sync, so VGA input like the one you would have. Still has a bunch of problems though.

Anyway, if you don't notice the difference then all my hard work was for naught and it obviously doesn't matter.

Good luck!