To Frame, or not to Frame?

[Santoro]

LilWolf's post here: http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=16930 got me wondering.  

I used Scott's Unicade as a model for my cabinet.  It has an internal 2x4 frame and it feels strudy as all heck.  Even with my 27" D9200, there is no lateral sway whatsoever.  I love how industrial strength it feels - but MAN is that Cab heavy!

I am going to be building a few cabs for possible individual sale and they must be completely, totally sturdy.  I would like to get a feel for how the group feels about the sturdiness of thier frameless cabinets.  If could build a lighter cabinet with the same strength I would do it in a heartbeat.

{edited for spelling.}

[hyiu]

I have a couple extra pieces on the monitor and the base for extra support, but I don't think it would consider frame....

that's good enough for me...  

[Stingray]

I didn't build my cab, it's a converted Midway cab. It seems to be made mostly of MDF, but it's got some plywood in it too. It doesn't have a frame, but it does have some 2x2 bracing inside. It was built in 1982 and is still steady as a rock.

-S

[1UP]

My cab doesn't have a frame and it is solid.  It does use 1x1's to join the sides, but that can't really be considered a frame as none of the 1x1's are connected to each other and so does not have any underlying structure.  The 1x1's don't add much to the weight like a 2x4 frame would.

Also, I am talking to a builder about having my cabinets mass-produced, and he says a frame isn't necessary at all if you put the panels together correctly (he recommends using dadoes.)

[FractalWalk]

I have a 1up cab design and it swayed slightly, so I put a diagonal strut from the monitor shelf to the top of the opposite side wall. Now it's a brick.

[NoOne=NBA=]

At the very least I would use a ledger block/dado system, especially if you're using MDF.
If you're not sure how to do this, hit Home Depot and get a "how-to" for building cabinets.

I personally opted for a frame and plywood on mine; but, then again, my brother-in-law and I built his daughter's first "baby-bed" out of 4x4's (w/ carriage bolts) and 3/4" plywood, so I'd say I tend toward overkill.

On the other hand, I have NEVER had anything I built fall apart.
That baby bed was just big enough to hold the crib mattress after she was old enough for a bed.
We BOTH jumped on it at the same time to make sure it would hold her.  
Fortunately we didn't have to BREAK the bed apart when she was done with it.
At least we planned ahead for THAT.

Alot of the reason that I opted to frame mine was that I didn't know ahead of time what the final shape would be due to hardware issues.
I built a rolling table to hold the CP/Monitor, and then used cardboard to tweak the shape/size until I had what I wanted.
Once I had the right shape/size, I then cut the plywood to replace the cardboard.

[Santoro]

Based on the feedback so far, it sounds like I will be OK with a dadoed frameless design.   I will probably come up with something special for supporting the 27" D9200 monitor.   Something like a partial frame maybe.

What I specifically don't want is the D9200 sitting on an MDF shelf.  It's a really heavy monitor - I can only imagine it would sag over time.

thoughts?

[hyiu]

well..... doesn't really matter what type of wood... MDF or plywood.... if you sit very heavy stuff on it... it'll sag eventually....

that's why I put a metal bar below the wood..... and its a "U" shape bar that can withstand whatever I put on....

this way... I'm pretty sure it won't sag in the middle....

[FractalWalk]

It's a really heavy monitor - I can only imagine it would sag over time.

Without support underneath the shelf, I'm betting that monitor will sag immediately. Hyiu's suggestion is good. 2x2's will probably work as well.

[dmsuchy]

Just brace the monitor shelf and the base of the cabinet with 2 2X4 stringers each and the cabinet will be rock solid! You can either pocket jib or toe screw the 2X4s into the side if your going to used stained plywood or if you will be covering with laminate or painting the sides just screw from the outside, countersink and bondo.

[Gamecab]

I also built a 1 UP Cab but had not sway to it and I was glad for that.  I made my 1UP from 3/4 MDF, 1X1's as 1Up suggested and about 2 billion very corse threaded screws which were all pre-drilled and counter sunk into the 1x1's.  I also think that joining the pieces with liquid nails also helped.
My First Cabinet on the other hand had a dangerous sway to it but that's another story for a different thread..

[paigeoliver]

The monitor shelf or mounting stuff, along with the control panel and the extra wood in the marquee area pretty much eliminates the need for a frame.

Real cabinets don't have frames.

[hyiu]

ohh... and for the monitor sagging....

I just realized that most of your guys are simply mounting the monitor inside the cab... (so... the monitor position has a rectangular hole... and the monitor sits there and the whole frame is supporting the weight.... (that might be a better case since the weight is distributed a little more evenly....

on my cab... I'm simply using a computer mon (completely intact....) and the monitor is standing on a shelf.... so... for me... the weight is more concenttrated in the middle... and harder on the wood... (that's why I added the metal bar...)

[Santoro]

My cab doesn't have a frame and it is solid.  It does use 1x1's to join the sides.......
{snip}.....Also, I am talking to a builder about having my cabinets mass-produced, and he says a frame isn't necessary at all if you put the panels together correctly (he recommends using dadoes.)

How do you connect the 1x1's to the sides?  {edit -never mind- found it on your website.  thx}

(Thinking out loud here......)
I am also thinking about dadoes.  I have the tools required, but am not sure where I would use dadoes.  I imagine on the bottom, middle "shelf", and top is where most would do it.  But I think I am going to rig up a 2x4 mounting apparatus for the monitor instead of a shelf.    Would that provide adequate stiffening of the frame?  Would the bottom dado be able to take all of the downward forces from the sides?  I would probably need to shore it up with ledgers or something.

By the time I do all that, I might as well have built a frame!  

Sounds like I need to experiment a bit.

[Santoro]

Ressurecting a dead thread here....

I have started work on a frameless cab, and I have to say that my worries about sway were probably unfounded.   I am using ledgers and not dadoes, and it seems really sturdy nonetheless.  

As an added bonus, it is a lot easier to build this way!

Just for the record.

[old school gamer]

Im new to building MAME cabinets,but not cabinets in general. All cabinets are boxes,square or rectangle. If built properly there is no need to frame a cabinet. All pieces should be nailed or screwed and glued. Wood glue is VERY strong. I have a step by step guide on my web page of building my cabinet. Look in PHOTO ALBUM.http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=16&ext=1&groupid=58833&ck=