Author Topic: do i need a spinner??? (Read 2971 times)

hulkster · « **on:** March 08, 2004, 10:25:56 pm »

okay, ive done some research on this subject and i read somewhere that Howard said something to the effect of if you dont know what games require a spinner, then you dont need one. well i agree, but i was going through my games list, and saw that a lot of games like ikari warriors, heavy barrel, caliber 50, and a lot of racing games use the spinner control. at least thats what they say. so my question is, do i need a spinner for this, or can i just set up my joysticks in mame so that they work well without the spinner?? suggestions?

crashwg · « **Reply #1 on:** March 08, 2004, 10:39:49 pm »

I don't think that Ikari warriors plays very well with a spinner, though I haven't tried it, but any 360 steering wheel game will be a whole lot better with a spinner if you don't have a wheel that is. Also there are a lot of good games that just stink without a spinner, like Tempest, arkanoid, cameltry (a cool game, check it out), tron, DOT ok, there's not a whole lot more than that for non-driving games, but I'd say if you like any of those games more than a little and have $100 to spare, go ahead and buy one.

Jakobud · « **Reply #2 on:** March 08, 2004, 10:41:13 pm »

Well I know that Ikari Warriors and Heavy Barrel don't really use a real spinner, but they use a rotary joystick. You can't really play them well if you try with a joystick, spinner and normal pushbuttons (unless you have three hands!). On my CP, I have a 3" Happs trackball and a spinner as well. If I had to do it over again, I'd probably just leave off the spinner, as you can play all your spinner games with the trackball just fine. I know a lot of people would not share my same opinion but anyways thats my 2cents.

mushmouth · « **Reply #3 on:** March 08, 2004, 10:42:31 pm »

I have 3 swappable panels, one of which has an Oscar Vortex spinner on it. I use that spinner for one game or another every time I have my cabinet turned on.

Besides, it's not just about the games you already know about. I discover new games in Mame every day, many of which can utilize a spinner for one thing or another.

I love my spinner. It's my single favorite control on all 3 of my panels. For the record, I don't think there is any comparison between playing a game with a trackball vs. spinner. Apples and oranges, IMHO...

hulkster · « **Reply #4 on:** March 08, 2004, 10:46:36 pm »

hmm, well down the road i may make a seperate panel with a couple of steering wheels on it, so i probably wont need a spinner. okay, thanks guys for the input!

NoOne=NBA= · « **Reply #5 on:** March 08, 2004, 11:38:55 pm »

You can't really set up your joysticks to work as a spinner.
They are basically like spinning the knob full speed in whatever direction you push the joystick.

That makes it really hard to control "finesse" games like driving games.

Jabba · « **Reply #6 on:** March 09, 2004, 01:46:24 am »

I am in the process of evaluating a spinner for may cab. I will be adding one, most likely an Oscar...I come from the early eighties school and like the Arkanoid spinner when playing this game. Also, it would be handy when playing Tron, which was another one of my HUGE favorites (I still remember the game tune

) . In my opinion, I would have to say a spinner would be required if you were looking to round out that part of the experience... My 2 cents.

Note: crashwg's comment is there because when I started my reply, I was thinking of another thread and that included marbel madeness. I edited it since, but I guess crashwg was keeping me honest. So no, crashwg has not lost it

crashwg · « **Reply #7 on:** March 09, 2004, 01:47:53 am »

Marble madness is more of a trackball type game I think...

SpamMe · « **Reply #8 on:** March 09, 2004, 04:43:06 am »

Quote from: crashwg on March 09, 2004, 01:47:53 am

Marble madness is more of a trackball type game I think...

Might be fun to play with two spinners, etch-a-sketch style, though

Minwah · « **Reply #9 on:** March 09, 2004, 07:53:22 am »

I'd never played any spinner games (spinner games had gone from arcades when I was a kid), but I bought a spinner anyway (an Oscar model 1 I think it was) and thought it was great! I think I'd always have a spinner available one way or another now if only for a few games. As the others say they are cool for 360deg wheel games if you don't have a wheel too

Stingray · « **Reply #10 on:** March 09, 2004, 10:27:51 am »

Quote from: SpamMe on March 09, 2004, 04:43:06 am

Quote from: crashwg on March 09, 2004, 01:47:53 am
Marble madness is more of a trackball type game I think...
Might be fun to play with two spinners, etch-a-sketch style, though

That's just nutty, but I would totally try it if I had two spinners!

-S

Edgedamage · « **Reply #11 on:** March 09, 2004, 10:44:19 am »

Go the poor man's route. If your panel has a trackball you could install a hidden switch that kills the +5v to the up/down optic board. When switched off the trackball becomes a left/right spinner control. Cheap but it works.

Minwah · « **Reply #12 on:** March 09, 2004, 01:52:06 pm »

Quote from: Edgedamage on March 09, 2004, 10:44:19 am

Go the poor man's route. If your panel has a trackball you could install a hidden switch that kills the +5v to the up/down optic board. When switched off the trackball becomes a left/right spinner control. Cheap but it works.

Surely you don't need to do this - the left/right will work fine with the up/down wired up anyway ??

Edgedamage · « **Reply #13 on:** March 09, 2004, 02:07:20 pm »

Try this play two games of tempest #1 with trackball running both optics. #2 with trackball with up/down optics switched off. You will see the difference

GGKoul · « **Reply #14 on:** March 09, 2004, 02:14:54 pm »

I bought an Oscar Model 1 too... and I removed it.

2 things that bother me about the spinner.

1) I place my spinner above my trackball. And it got in way when playing Golden Tee.

2) I never used it. As I could never get the settings correct for any of the spinner games.

Put the money that you were going to use to by a spinner and get yourself some T-Slik Plus joysitcks.

Stingray · « **Reply #15 on:** March 09, 2004, 02:22:09 pm »

Wanna sell that spinner GGKoul?

-S

hulkster · « **Reply #16 on:** March 09, 2004, 06:07:06 pm »

Quote from: GGKoul on March 09, 2004, 02:14:54 pm

I bought an Oscar Model 1 too... and I removed it.

2 things that bother me about the spinner.

1) I place my spinner above my trackball. And it got in way when playing Golden Tee.

2) I never used it. As I could never get the settings correct for any of the spinner games.

Put the money that you were going to use to by a spinner and get yourself some T-Slik Plus joysitcks.

t stick plus??? are those good? im assuming they work well with games like ikari warriors?

Sasquatch! · « **Reply #17 on:** March 09, 2004, 09:16:04 pm »

Gadzooks, NO TEMPEST?!??

GGKoul · « **Reply #18 on:** March 10, 2004, 08:49:56 am »

T-Slik Plus allows you to switch from 8 way to 4 way mode in seconds and without going under the cp to switch modes

So you won't need to put a separate 4 way joytick on your cab

Minwah · « **Reply #19 on:** March 10, 2004, 10:58:58 am »

Quote from: GGKoul on March 09, 2004, 02:14:54 pm

I bought an Oscar Model 1 too... and I removed it.

2 things that bother me about the spinner.

1) I place my spinner above my trackball. And it got in way when playing Golden Tee.

2) I never used it. As I could never get the settings correct for any of the spinner games.

Put the money that you were going to use to by a spinner and get yourself some T-Slik Plus joysitcks.

1) I can understand this would annoy...

2) I dunno why you couldn't get the settings correct. I had to spend a bit of time on each game adjusting the settings (usually upping the sensitivity), but there weren't any spinner games that I couldn't get it working well with.

As for your last statement I would like to go on...If you like spinner games you *must* have a spinner - the only tricky part is for those who have never played spinner games (with a spinner) before, and need a spinner to try them out. Having tried with a spinner one will then know whether they a) definately want a spinner, b) will make do with a trackball (/stick) or c) couldn't care less about spinner games. GGKoul you obviously fall into the b) or c) category but I bet many would go with a)

Minwah · « **Reply #20 on:** March 10, 2004, 11:05:42 am »

Quote from: hulkster081 on March 09, 2004, 06:07:06 pm

t stick plus??? are those good? im assuming they work well with games like ikari warriors?

I think GGKoul was just recommending a good general stick with the ingenious 4/8-way switching...For Ikari Warriors etc. the only way to play would be with either mechanical rotary stick (& Druin interface) or optical rotary stick.

hulkster · « **Reply #21 on:** March 10, 2004, 01:39:02 pm »

hmmm...so basically your saying that i cant play that game without buying some crazy joystick that i will only use on certain games?

Stingray · « **Reply #22 on:** March 10, 2004, 01:44:07 pm »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that a rotary joystick can function as a regular joystick in games that don't use the rotarty function.

-S

Minwah · « **Reply #23 on:** March 10, 2004, 01:52:41 pm »

Quote from: hulkster081 on March 10, 2004, 01:39:02 pm

hmmm...so basically your saying that i cant play that game without buying some crazy joystick that i will only use on certain games?

Basically yes. But Stingray is right - you can use the rotary stick as a regular stick too. But then you probably won't have the 4/8-way switching, and there are other issues eg you might prefer a J-Stik to a rotary (if you like Happ Supers the Happ rotaries would be great).

It's always the same Hulkster - if you love those games then you need the right controller, otherwise don't bother. Take for instance Oscars up/down spinner (required for 2 games) or the '720' boarding game - which has a totally unique stick, but if you love the game you need the controller (& just look at all the posts concerning 720 controllers over the past months...)

Personally I've always really liked Ikari Warriors and a couple of the other similar games. I can't say I love them enough to go to the hassle of getting the suitable controllers tho...

edit: got the no. of degrees wrong

Stingray · « **Reply #24 on:** March 10, 2004, 01:59:14 pm »

Indeed. I don't even remember ever playing any rotary stick game in the arcade, so I don't have any real interest in a rotary setup. On the other hand I was totally addicted to Centepede and Tempest. Those two games alone justify a spinner/ TB panel in my humble opinion.

-S

Minwah · « **Reply #25 on:** March 10, 2004, 02:38:41 pm »

Quote from: Stingray on March 10, 2004, 01:59:14 pm

Indeed. I don't even remember ever playing any rotary stick game in the arcade, so I don't have any real interest in a rotary setup. On the other hand I was totally addicted to Centepede and Tempest. Those two games alone justify a spinner/ TB panel in my humble opinion.

Me either...kindof...I do remember playing Ikari Warriors, but either the machine didn't even have rotary sticks (generic cabs were predominent at this particular arcade) or I just didn't realise you could twist the joystick. Either way it probably explains why I was terrible at the game!

DougHillman · « **Reply #26 on:** March 10, 2004, 02:39:42 pm »

Stingray and some of the others are on the right track here. EVERY question that gets asked like this is not really something anyone but you can answer.

Personally, I could never conceive of building a CP without a spinner. I've got a list of about 30 games that are the incentive for building a MAME cabinet. Games that I loved to play in the arcades during my teen years. A large percentage of those games require a spinner for good gameplay. Yeah, you can play Tempest and Tron and Arkanoid without a spinner. But certainly not well, and not the way they were intended to be played.

So for me the answer is an unqualified, "Yes, I need a spinner." The answer may be different for you. Completely depends on what games you'll play. If you don't care enough about any spinner games to need one, you can get by with other options for the few times you may play them.

FWIW, it's possible to play the Ikari - Heavy Barrel type games acceptably with a spinner instead of a rotary joystick (which you really wouldn't want as one of your main sticks) depending on your layout. if you're dexterous and can reach the 1 or 2 buttons required with your fingers that aren't necessary for control (pinky on your joystick hand, for instance) you can get by that way. A more common option is using a Tron type setup with a stick that has a fire button on it in conjunction with a spinner. For the games that require a second button, the off-finger maneuver is usually used. This is the solution I'm using on the cabinet I'm building for a friend. My own modular panel will have an actual rotary stick as space used by controls for a limited amount of games isn't an issue and the Ikari type games are also among my favorites so I want to replicate the arcade experience as closely as possible.

D

GGKoul · « **Reply #27 on:** March 10, 2004, 02:42:24 pm »

Yes you need a rotary joystick to play Ikari type games.
Yes the rotary joyticks can be used as 4/8 way, but it really sucks as a normal joystick.

You have to ask yourself. Do you like spinner games? If X = Yes, then buy a spinner. If X = No, then don't.

Hulkster, like my control panel, yours has lots of room to add anything you desire. I added spinner but hated the placement more then I hated spinner games. So if I decide to move the spinner away from the trackball. On my panel, the spinner would be too far in front for me to play any spinner games confortably. So I decided to remove the spinner when I redesigned my panel.

BUT... BUT.. BUT

When I make my 2nd panel, as my panels will be removeable. My second panel will contain 2 trackballs a few buttons and a SPINNER in middle of them. As I want to able to play any game thats available in Mame.

So even thou I dont play many spinner games now, At least by adding it to my second panel. I have the option in the future.

So my 1st panel will be my primary panel. Which will be used to play most of the games in mame. It has:
- 4 (8/4) T-Slik Plus joysticks for each player. (So I can play either the classic 4 way games and the newer 8 way games
- 2 Rotary joysticks
- 1 Trackball in the middle

Panel 2:
- 2 Trackballs (For Rampart & Blades of Steel mostly)
- 1 Spinner
Maybe a Wico 4 way.

Panel 3: - Dream panel
- 2 Steering wheels and/or
- Star wars Yoke (If I can find one)

I make all 3 of the panels.. I will be able to play 99% of the games available.

So my 2 cents to you is: Make your 1st panel contain the joysticks you need to play 90% of the games you want to be able to play in mame.

Make the 2nd panel contain the joysticks for the games you want to play sometimes.

Then make any other panel based for whatever games you can't play on the other 2.

Hope this helps

-GGKoul

Minwah · « **Reply #28 on:** March 10, 2004, 02:52:48 pm »

Quote from: DougHillman on March 10, 2004, 02:39:42 pm

FWIW, it's possible to play the Ikari - Heavy Barrel type games acceptably with a spinner instead of a rotary joystick (which you really wouldn't want as one of your main sticks) depending on your layout.

I was really referring to the Happ style rotaries - these are basically Supers with the rotary part added so should be (very nearly) the same as the Super for most games.

hulkster · « **Reply #29 on:** March 10, 2004, 04:18:22 pm »

hmmm....well thanks for all the advice. usually, i play side scrollers, fighters, and sports games. so my supers will cover most of my needs. but making seperate panels wont be that difficult. just requires more money. what i may do in the future, is create a panel with a spinner and some rotary joysticks. as well as another panel with a couple of steering wheels. but as of right now, i can just play ikari warriors and stuff like that on my nes emu!! thanks guys for all the tips. ill just hold off for a while, and youll see my new panel project down the road


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