Modular controls panel discussion

[patrickl]

Unless you made the seems part of your art design then you wouldn't know there were there.

That might hide the seams a bit, but it will still show (you see edges from the cuts and it will also get damaged over time). Besides, I'd guess that will do even more damage to the artwork than the seams themselves. If you put vertical lines on the artwork per module then it will scream out "hey I'm build from modules" more than a flat black cover (with some hard to notice seams). Also, I don't think a (4"?) repeating pattern would look nice.

I just can't think of a good design that would look even better than the black doc uses now, but that could be my lack of imagination  

[SirPoonga]

Like I said, use the seams to your advantage.  Camoflauge them in.  You could route out fake seams.  Make a grid like pattern then.  Combine an art pattern with that.  It wouldn't be that hard to make it look good with some color yet camo the seams.  Would require some good wood working skills.  of course a metal modular CP you could engrave a pattern or something cool

[Doc-]

I like jelloslug's rail system.

Doc's system
"Can't cover panels with lexan/art"

That's wrong.  It's possile, you just need a well thought out repeating patern that the edges of each panel match up.  Like a repeating pacman maze that I have seen as a wallpaper.

Jello's rail system is how he over came Doc's con of "Need to secure joysticks - though I overcame this one"

I agree with you on the artwork.  My panels are covered with black vinyl, but someone on one of these threads pointed out that if you have some artistic tallent it is quite possible to develop a nice pattern and have it printed on vinyl and then install it on all of the panels.  My guess is that if you painted the edges (like I have) it could be made to look quite nice.

As for securing the joysticks - Jello's rail system clearly works great, but mine system does too.  Its a matter of preference.  I like the ease of being able to swap a single panel out by just popping it out.  I'm frequently changing the center panel between spinner and various specialty joysticks.

Going back to the original question - NO - a modular system is never really done.  I have a Pole Position 360 degree wheel that I'm going to mount on a panel for 360 driving games.  I've also ordered a few more buttons for some game specific panels.  

 I still have a list of minor fixes and software issues I want to work through.  It is never really done!

Doc-

[NoOne=NBA=]

Mine keeps getting LESS done as I go.

My idea for the artwork is going to be something along the lines of the Nintendo vs. art.
A grid area in the middle of each module, so it looks like the art is SUPPOSED to be in 4 pieces.

The seams themselves will hide pretty well with a black "granite" paint job like the front of my cab.

I'm not really that concerned about it LOOKING modular though.
That is the main focus of my cab, and looks alot less "out of place" than a frankenpanel to me.

[DougHillman]

I haven't put too much thought into the CPO design yet, but it's probably about time to do so.  

Early ideas are to have a coupla lines that run across the top & bottom of each peice to tie the modules together with some sorta contained graphic in the middle of each piece.   Probably a controller surrounding type graphic such as the one we used on the cab I just completed.  http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=23028    

 

[SirPoonga]

As for securing the joysticks - Jello's rail system clearly works great, but mine system does too.  Its a matter of preference.  I like the ease of being able to swap a single panel out by just popping it out.  I'm frequently changing the center panel between spinner and various specialty joysticks.

True, I didn't elaborate and why I like jello's rail system.  Yours works, but it will only work with a specific setup.  you need a lip to put the panels under. While with the rail system it wouldn't matter how your cabinet was designed.

I'm not saying yours is bad, I'm just saying why I like jelloslug's.

[goofy]

This was a great discussion/brainstorming of Modular panel ideas. I'd love to hear more about this stuff as it's the direction I'm leaning for my first project. I've seen Doc's panel and I think I like that one the best although my concern is the panel widths, dowel holes and dowels all have to be so precise otherwise you get gaps or other problems. So, I'm still looking for another idea.

I've been thinking about slots the you can slide the panels into and then something to snug them all together. That still leaves securing the other two directions to deal with (basically you have to secure side-to-side, front-to-back and up-and-down).

If there are any other modular control panel designers out there, post links here to your projects, home page or forum discussion.

Thanks and keep it going.

[telengard]

This was a great discussion/brainstorming of Modular panel ideas. I'd love to hear more about this stuff as it's the direction I'm leaning for my first project. I've seen Doc's panel and I think I like that one the best although my concern is the panel widths, dowel holes and dowels all have to be so precise otherwise you get gaps or other problems. So, I'm still looking for another idea.

I've been thinking about slots the you can slide the panels into and then something to snug them all together. That still leaves securing the other two directions to deal with (basically you have to secure side-to-side, front-to-back and up-and-down).

If there are any other modular control panel designers out there, post links here to your projects, home page or forum discussion.

Thanks and keep it going.

I have a modular panel and I don't have to worry about precise cuts as much.  I use standard rack mount blanker panel parts which are very standard.  They fit together perfectly and are *extremely* sturdy.  Being secure was numero uno for me since I tend to be a little hard on the controls.  The only downside is that they need to be screwed down which doesn't bother me.  Takes about 1-2 minutes tops to change to a whole new panel now that I'm using ethernet cables to plug the modules in.  For the flexibility and sturdiness it's well worth it, for me at least.

I've also gone for as much authenticity as I can for controls buying old unique stuff like the Tapper handle joystick, Galaga 2 way, etc.  I couldn't figure out a way to do the artwork, plus I have *zero* artistic ability so I just use black pica vinyl and to me it looks quite good.

The other modular setups are very good and creative and there are probably more ideas folks haven't though of yet.

Here's my link   http://users.adelphia.net/~bsturk/mame.html

Good luck with your cabinet!

[Doc-]

This was a great discussion/brainstorming of Modular panel ideas. I'd love to hear more about this stuff as it's the direction I'm leaning for my first project. I've seen Doc's panel and I think I like that one the best although my concern is the panel widths, dowel holes and dowels all have to be so precise otherwise you get gaps or other problems. So, I'm still looking for another idea.

I shared many of the same concerns you had when I started.  In fact, I almost stopped several times and went back to my static panel because I thought this whole thing would never work.  I also thought I was never going to be able to secure the panels without mounting screws.  However, once I had the dowel rails installed and fit the first 5-6 panels into the rails, I realized that this crazy idea actually might work.  It did.

I have come up with a modification that can make the modular panels easier to build.  If you put a front dowel rail in that is perpendicular to the panels (just like the back one is) it makes it much easier to drill the panels since all panel holes are now vertical into the panel.

On my original case, I could not implement this idea because I had pre-existing pinball buttons that interfered.

As for the rest, you do need access to a table saw to cut the panels, but once you set the table saw up for a given panel size, you can run them all through in a few minutes.  If you can borrow a table saw and mark the wood in advance you could probably cut all of the panels in an hour or two at most.  Obviously you cut the panel just shy of the desired width (say 1/16" less than the desired width).

I know that the holes can be cut without a drill press, since I had to do so for several of the larger panels (my tiny drill press was not deep enough).  The key here is to carefully measure the holes and then start with your smallest drill size to drill an accurate pilot hole.  Then move to a medium one, and finally the full drill size.  Use some tape wrapped around the drill bits to make sure you don't drill too deep.

Fitting the panels is also worth some discussion.  The vast majority of the panels don't fit perfectly the first time you pop them in.  I used a pencil to mark the holes that did not match well and then a drill bit to auger out the holes a bit until I arrived at a good fit.  It takes a little bit of patience at first, but by the end I could fit a panel very quickly with no slop.

I'm sure there are many other ways to do this - (there are 5-6 other examples cited in this thread) but I wanted wood panels that I could make in the garage and remove from the system with no tools.  Hopefully someone can take the basic idea and simplify it even further.

[spidermonkey]

Paige, Q-bert sticks were made by Suzo. Look on the underside of the mounting plate. It should have this stamped into it "STC ROTTERDAM 22-0265"  Also, the black ball top on a Q-bert stick is much smaller then the typical balltops.

[neuromancer]

You could simplify things a bit.

For instance, the T&F panels will probalby only be used with each other, so you can make them fill the space.

The red joystick modules always have at least an inch on the left, so you could make them an inch wider and not need that many more spacers.

Bob

[l8nite]

Anybody considered using magnets to secure the front portion?

Anybody considered using dowels or "edge slots" on the sides of their modules so that they can achieve a really snug fit and help secure the entire panel?

Has anybody built a modular 4-player panel?

These are a few deas I had while thinking through my panel design.  I'm still looking at the best ways to do this and trying to come up with something easy to swap and nice to look at.

Regarding modular artwork, my initial impulse was to use a simple color scheme and do the standard art (such as arrows around joysticks, starbursts on buttons, etc) and then a very simple horizontal 'stripe' pattern that could have areas that moved up and down within a single panel.  Look at the art on the front edge of a dig-dug control panel for an example of what I'm thinking about.

Dig-dug artwork
http://irc.topgamers.net/~l8nite/img_3223.jpg

I think if the right colors were chosen, it could look very tasteful and still retain the ability to move around the art.  If you have varying width segments, making it symmetrical might be more of a problem, in which case you could go with half triangles on each panel that alternated a few colors and blended together (think like the atari logo).  If anybody wants I can do a small mockup of that idea.

[patrickl]

Has anybody built a modular 4-player panel?

I think the "star wars wing type polyester CP" that someone was working on a while ago was 4 player and (sort of) modular.

BTW Wasn't there someone who build a whole cab from lego? Now that's modular  

[telengard]

Anybody considered using magnets to secure the front portion?

Anybody considered using dowels or "edge slots" on the sides of their modules so that they can achieve a really snug fit and help secure the entire panel?

Has anybody built a modular 4-player panel?

These are a few deas I had while thinking through my panel design.  I'm still looking at the best ways to do this and trying to come up with something easy to swap and nice to look at.

Regarding modular artwork, my initial impulse was to use a simple color scheme and do the standard art (such as arrows around joysticks, starbursts on buttons, etc) and then a very simple horizontal 'stripe' pattern that could have areas that moved up and down within a single panel.  Look at the art on the front edge of a dig-dug control panel for an example of what I'm thinking about.

Dig-dug artwork
http://irc.topgamers.net/~l8nite/img_3223.jpg

I think if the right colors were chosen, it could look very tasteful and still retain the ability to move around the art.  If you have varying width segments, making it symmetrical might be more of a problem, in which case you could go with half triangles on each panel that alternated a few colors and blended together (think like the atari logo).  If anybody wants I can do a small mockup of that idea.

Unless the magnets were either really powerful or they are used as a secondary securing mechanism I'm not sure how they could work.   I'm having a hard time using a magnet to hold an optical board in place so I don't have to re-do a module.   The dowel thing sounds like a good idea but lining up the holes sounds difficult.  I don't think I've seen a modular 4 player panel yet.

Your artwork idea sounds very cool, I'd like to see it.

[NoOne=NBA=]

I didn't build a whole cab out of Legos, but I did build a Tron handle with them awhile back.



Telengard,

Why are you holding the optic card in place with magnets?
I'm curious if it's to swap it out between modules, or just to keep it in place on a single module.
If it's just to keep it in place on a single module, I've had really good luck with the 3M foam tape.
I've used that almost exclusively on a bunch of "can I get this working" temporary projects that I've done recently.
I'm actually planning on using it PERMANENTLY to mount some of Oscar's boards to the Ivan Stewart's Off Road wheels I bought awhile back.
They used the curved Atari-style optic cards, and the mount for them works PERFECTLY if you foam tape an Oscar board to it.

[telengard]

I didn't build a whole cab out of Legos, but I did build a Tron handle with them awhile back.



Telengard,

Why are you holding the optic card in place with magnets?
I'm curious if it's to swap it out between modules, or just to keep it in place on a single module.
If it's just to keep it in place on a single module, I've had really good luck with the 3M foam tape.
I've used that almost exclusively on a bunch of "can I get this working" temporary projects that I've done recently.
I'm actually planning on using it PERMANENTLY to mount some of Oscar's boards to the Ivan Stewart's Off Road wheels I bought awhile back.
They used the curved Atari-style optic cards, and the mount for them works PERFECTLY if you foam tape an Oscar board to it.

It's sorta a long story.  2 years ago I bought a steering wheel assembly from Oscar (he doesn't carry these anymore).  It required the use of a USB mouse hack which would be a pain to use w/ my OptiPac.  So I ordered an encoder board from Oscar.  Works great.  The problem is the footprint is different from the original optics so the bracket that holds the optical board needed to be moved so that the wheel could reach the optics.  I'm lazy so I've been using magnet tape to hold the bracket.  I should *really* make another hole to attach the bracket with.

Are you planning on making a mold with your lego Tron stick?    

[Doc-]

Anybody considered using magnets to secure the front portion?

Anybody considered using dowels or "edge slots" on the sides of their modules so that they can achieve a really snug fit and help secure the entire panel?

Has anybody built a modular 4-player panel?

These are a few deas I had while thinking through my panel design.  I'm still looking at the best ways to do this and trying to come up with something easy to swap and nice to look at.

Magnets might work if they were very strong as a secondary connecter for joysticks.  You would still need dowels or something in the front rail to prevent sliding side to side.

Edge slots or dowels would work fine, but might make it a lot harder to swap just one panel at a time.  I frequently swap a single joystick or spinner out without touching the rest of the panel.  I don't think they are really needed if you have a dowel system like mine or the screw down system that some others use.

I do have a friend building a 4 player modular system based on my design.  He's started cutting wood for some of the panels - I will let you know how it turns out.

I think the artwork would work just fine - particularly if you printed it on sticky vinyl, and had a repeating pattern or pattern centered around the controls (arrows, starburst, etc).  Unfortunately I have no artistic talent whatsoever.  The only downside is that you would need to print quite a few panels (there is lots of area on a modular panel as you add more modules!).

[ChadTower]

Isn't a really strong magnet that close to your PC and monitor a big giant no-no?  

[l8nite]

Well I was thinking of it more on the front of your CP, in which case it's far away enough that I doubt it would cause any interference.  In either case, it seems the general consensus is that it wouldn't be as effective as a system which secured the board into place.

Hey Doc, if you're still following this discussion and your friend has any plans for his design on the 4-player cp I'd love to see them if he's willing.   I plan to start cutting for my cabinet this weekend, so I'm trying to nail down (har har) some of the finer details of my design to figure out how much wood I'll have to buy.

Thanks,
Shaun

[Doc-]

Shaun,
  I believe he was planning something like mine, except that he obviously has a control panel that hangs over on both sides much like the common 4 player panels.

  If I understand him correctly, he intends to make all four players modular.  I believe the basic design is to use two rails under the panel (like mine) along with a monitor bezel piece that is extended to secure the rear edge of the panels.  He then intends some rounded edges mounted permanently on the sides to form edges for the modular sections in the middle.  The dowel rails and method for securing panels will be the same as the system I used, with the exception of the front dowel rail which will be a separate rail mounted at a slight angle to make it easier to drill all of the panel holes vertically.

Cheers!
Doc-

[l8nite]

Excellent!  That's funny - I was thinking about the problem of having a really square looking CP if I did this myself and came to the same conclusion that a couple of 2" wide 'wings' on the ends wouldn't look too bad at all.  They could even contain cup holders or other wackiness.

I'm not sure how extending the monitor bezel would work in my current design since it's actually inset to the panels, but I'm gonna toy around with some other edge-mounting ideas.  Hopefully I'll have something mapped out and ready to go for me Saturday morning

Thanks for your great input and design, it's really inspired me to go the extra mile in designing this thing

Shaun

[Xiaou2]

 Didnt read the whole thread.. but I think I know whats going on...

 I had an interesting idea I thought Id share about this...

 Make a pull out drawer system.  You then pop in the enclosed sections in the order you want... then close the drawer till its flush with the cabnet...

 Under the drawer... youd have the Happs spring loaded control panel clamps.   These things are super strong when installed propperly.  

 With only the 2 hidden but easily accessible clamps, the pressure should hold all the mini sections in place without any harm to them, yet will not budge even with the strongest of bashings.

 The drawer itself would have the nice rounded corner side edges, and or a front wrist rest, ect.
 
 To keep from having issues with some sections being a little longer than others (and not locking in some of the panels)... you could have foam or rubber inside the front of the drawer, that would compress enough to accomodate any accuracy deviances... yet still remain strong in holding power.

 Im not sure if people who have made modulars have enclosed each section... but I do think its a good idea... as setting the sections down without protection could lead to damages.

 You may also want to make a modular parts drawer that in below the control panel drawer... that stores all the modules. (but fully closes flush with the cab so as to be completely hidden)

[l8nite]

I've already decided and designed on making the coin-door panel a pull-out drawer thanks to the excellent idea/work of someone else on this forum (I saw the cab picture and was like "sweet!").

I'm not sure I understand fully what you're talking about with regards to how the clamps would work though.  

[l8nite]

Me again,

I've started building my cabinet!  I haven't actually got to building the control panel yet, but I'm coming up on it quickly (and all my buttons arrived today).

I've been dreaming up mounting ideas for my modular panel and whatnot, but I usually come back to pretty much what doc did for his.  The only thing is, I don't have a monitor bezel to put the back lip under.  I assume the only force this helps prevent is when you're pulling back on a joystick or rolling down on a trackball.  Do you really put enough pressure to lift the back of the board up?  I might end up moving the dowels on the back rail sideways and have the control module push into them and then rest on a rail that goes across.

Also, regarding artwork... I've come up with a few basic design sketches that I like (which would work with swapping), but I'm wondering about actually applying it to the control panel modules.  Should I stick with the 5/8" MDF and then put art + lexan on top?  Will the edges of the lexan look completely crap?  

Is printed vinyl a viable solution?  I tend to have sweaty palms, will the vinyl hold up to the moisture and movement of playing?  Can you get laminate custom-made with artwork? etc..

Thanks in advance!
Shaun
(edit, do edits bump? I hope so.)
(I guess not.)

[l8nite]

Small bump - Hoping to get some clarification before the weekend is out  If you can just point me to a FAQ or something I can look there.. I've searched the boards quite a bit, but this search interface is horrid.

[neuromancer]

Instead of printed vinyl, I would print on paper, and have it laminated with THICK plastic on the top, and self adhesive on the back. It looks and feels like the die printed plastic of the 80s, but it's a lot cheaper.

Bob

[Xiaou2]

heres a rough proto for a spring pressure clamp locking system.  

 Yellow = The happs spring loaded control panel clamps
 Lt Blue = Cabnet and Bolts
 Red = Pressure plate (needs some refinements)
 Green = special slide drawer
 Purple = Controller with shell surround
 Dk Blue = wire from controller & inside cab (plus connectors)
 Purple = 2*4 to mount spring clamp hooks to

 

[neuromancer]

I've got it.

All you need to do is build each module into a box instead of a panel.

If the "panel" is a box 3 to 4 inches deep, then all you need to do is build a box into the cabinet to recieve them.

You will be able to pull them from the cabinet with no mechanism and without effort, but it will be impossible to move them through game play.

Bob

[Xiaou2]

 almost..

  you see... if you didnt have a locking mechanism in place, youd might end up pulling the control boxes upwards at times... possibly dislodging the wires.

  Thats why Ive designed a spring pressure system.  It clamps the control boxes with a slight pressure so that they will not fly out or rattle arround.

  Building the mini boxes will also help to protect the assemblies from  damages durring transit and swaps.

[l8nite]

Seems like a pretty solid idea, what are you building the control module boxes out of?  Seems like using even 1/2" MDF or plywood is still taking up quite a huge portion of the space in your 'receiver box'.

Could you get the same benefit (protect components and provide some support) by just building two sides of the box (front and back)?

I'm about to start building my modules this weekend (got most of the cab finished this past weekend, woo hoo), so the more discussion that happens here the better!

-Shaun

[Xiaou2]

heh,  I just designed this to help out : )   My panel idea will be something different.  I had modular ideas long ago -  but then I came up with the rotating control panel idea.

 If you think that the 1/2 mdf will be too thick... you could take thin metal and bend its edges over a corner - hammering it to 90 degree angle - and create a nice little box  using this method.    That, or maybe you can find a nice premade bo or plastic container that will work as well.  

 However... just remember that the pressure you squeeze on the boxes may ruin them if not strong enuff... but you could make it  so  that only the top part is pressured... or something  like that.

 4 out of 6 sides box?  Might work well enuff.  Make sure to use corse thread drywall screws if using mdf else screws will  strip out and assembly wont hold  together well.

 The best thing to do is to plan very well.  Make many drawings and mockups...  before you start to build.  This will save you lots of money from mistakes, failures, ect..  and overall you will be more pleased with the results - which is much better than looking at the thing  saying 'i wish i hadnt done it this way'.