Hmmm... javeryh's weird cab

[bobbyb13]

Heheh-
We're all incompetent and moving backwards compared to Ond.
 
Not sure what you are shooting for ultimately but that rested sheet metal look could be damn cool.

I gave up long ago on "planning to my vision" and have adopted the much more realistic "temper my expectations to my skillset" approach.
 

You are smarter than I am - and get a lot more done.

[javeryh]

yeah I'm going to have to do a bunch of little test panels before deciding on the effect I want. In addition to looking like it's made out of metal or plastic or anything but wood I want the paint to be peeling.

I've seen tricks where people paint something with metal paint and then add toothpaste or white-out to the corners and places where paint would logically chip and then paint the top coat. Once that dries you just wipe off the toothpaste and it gives you a peeling effect showing the metal paint underneath the top coat. Then you water down brown and yellow paint to make it look muddy and brush it on to the inside corners or ledges to build up grime.

I think the hardest part is going to be picking out the right colored paint.

[javeryh]

OK... I think I hate MDF now. This past weekend I spent 3(!) hours on just routing out the material on ONE side of the cabinet. It took so long and I was covered in dust. It also didn't come out perfect but nothing that a little bondo can't fix. It was much harder than I thought it would be to maintain a perfect depth and once you cut below the surface of MDF it loses its "perfect" finish so bondo is basically a requirement here.

I was hoping to do both sides but I ran out of daylight and now I'm dreading going back to it. But I think this is the last major thing to do for the cabinet itself in the workshop before I can start painting.

I'll post pics later... I tried to document what I was doing but it went from setup to final shots because I was just trying to get it done.

 

[Ond]

OK... I think I hate MDF now. This past weekend I spent 3(!) hours on just routing out the material on ONE side of the cabinet. It took so long and I was covered in dust. It also didn't come out perfect but nothing that a little bondo can't fix. It was much harder than I thought it would be to maintain a perfect depth and once you cut below the surface of MDF it loses its "perfect" finish so bondo is basically a requirement here.

I was hoping to do both sides but I ran out of daylight and now I'm dreading going back to it. But I think this is the last major thing to do for the cabinet itself in the workshop before I can start painting.

I'll post pics later... I tried to document what I was doing but it went from setup to final shots because I was just trying to get it done.

 

yeah, I don't blame you for hating on MDF. The kind of work you're attempting is no fun at all, especially as a first go. MDF turns into a rough hairy mess after routing, that's why surface finishing with fillers is vital to transform that surface into a tough smooth one, suitable for painting. After using Bondo to repair larger voids and mistakes, solvent based primer filler LOVES MDF. It soaks in to the surface, toughens it and allows you to sand all that rough crap away. At least two coats and progressive sanding, and you'll be in a much better place    Happy to help with the Marquee in any way if I can. 

[javeryh]

Thanks Ond! I'm going to start workshopping ideas for the marquee once I get the cabinet fully built - so soon.

Here are a few shots showing what the finished side panel will look like (unpainted). The top cutouts are recessed and the bottom cutouts stick out - each about 1/4".





The darker areas on the inside edges of the cutouts are from the brand new router bit burning the material. It is so cheap I'm a little nervous it will hold up when I do the other side... I am dreading it! 

I made a little attachment to my router that was supposed to be the exact thickness of the pattern.





I started cutting in the middle and moved out towards the edges staying about 1/8" from my line. I had to make sure there was always enough edge for the router to rest on while cutting, which was kind of a pain. Once I had it roughed out, I added the pattern and removed the MDF square that I had attached to the base. Then I just ran the pattern but around the pattern giving me a "perfect" cutout.

But it's not that perfect. I slipped in one spot so there is a ding I need to repair with bondo and keeping a dead perfect depth was next to impossible in practice even though in my head it should have worked. So I have to skim the surface of the cutouts with bondo to make everything even. It should look good when it's done bit it's like triple the work that I thought it would be. 

[bobbyb13]

Looks like nice work to me!
What you are up to is challenging stuff so don't knock yourself too hard.

[javeryh]

Thanks bobby - it has been tricky. I finally got some time to cut out the other side and it was also a bit of a disaster. The outside lines of the cutouts are clean though so I think that's what matters at this point. The depth is not consistent and you can see tool marks everywhere but I think bondo and sanding will go a long way towards making it look good.

In case this eventually shows what can be fixed... assuming I can fix it haha:



All 3 interior surfaces on both sides will need to be filled, probably with multiple coats of bondo, and sanded back each time. Had I thought of this before construction I definitely would have used 1/2" MDF and then cut the holes out of 1/4" MDF and sandwiched them together and then routed out the slots for t-molding. But I'm a dummy. I'm getting close to being able to start painting...

[Zebidee]

All 3 interior surfaces on both sides will need to be filled, probably with multiple coats of bondo, and sanded back each time. ... I'm getting close to being able to start painting...

I'm not really a Bondo expert, but I'd use some acrylic putty/filler for that kind of stuff. Deeper scuffs may require more coats.

The acrylic putty advantages include easier to work with, cleanup and sand. More flexible, generally non-toxic, it will also bond to, expand and contract with the MDF. You can mix acrylic paint directly into it. Readily takes acrylic paints on top, just like MDF. Otherwise, apply whatever primer/paint Bobby recommends. Disadvantages include it takes longer to cure properly and is more sensitive to cold and especially humidity. Depending on your climate/weather you may want to use a heater to speed up the drying, and drive moisture out, to prevent crinkling on deeper fills.

On the other hand, from the paint styles discussed so far, you might prefer the finish to look a little rough or uneven.

[javeryh]

Thanks for the recommendation - I don't think I've ever used that stuff before but I will investigate unless it's just a fancy term for regular painter's putty that you would use on drywall.

Bondo dries hard as a rock (and fast) which is why I typically use it in situations like this but the smell is god awful. It's not too bad to sand but I am sure the dust isn't great. MDF doesn't expand with the weather (or at least not indoors during the change of seasons) so I'm not too concerned about that.

I am planning to prime everything with 2 coats of Kilz and sanding back with 220 grit after each coat. I will likely spray it on to try and get as smooth of a surface as possible. I want the final result to look weathered but more like a metal container that has been painted and the paint is chipping over time. So a layer of silver/metallic paint on top of the primer and then a colored top coat that I can remove bits and pieces of along the corners to expose the "metal" underneath and then give it a wash in brown paint to make it look dirty. I am going for perfectly imperfect if that makes any sense.

[Zebidee]

Thanks for the recommendation - I don't think I've ever used that stuff before but I will investigate unless it's just a fancy term for regular painter's putty that you would use on drywall.

Stuff I'm talking about is a step or two up from drywall filler, tougher, but application technique ultimately much the same.  Ask about acrylic putty brands at the paint section of your hardware store. If they just show you drywall stuff then move on, they don't understand.

I'm still using a powdered putty brand ('Agnews') I bought in Australia years ago, mix with water, use small amounts, just enough for the job, little waste. Even takes acrylic paint mixed in, so easier to blend patch jobs. Small tub goes long way, still got lots left.

Anyway, I'm sure Bondo will be fine too, especially if you're used to it. Fast drying is a big plus and is more "WYSIWYG" (what you see is what you get). Bondo also usually won't "crinkle" on thick fills, which acrylic puttys are prone to.

I am going for perfectly imperfect if that makes any sense.

Makes perfect sense!

[Ond]

A few comments looking at the rebated board below. The edge cut is indeed clean (good work!) and that's what matters. Patching torn up edges is much more difficult than flat surfaces. Those shallow accidental cuts are best filled with a polyester resin filler commonly/generically called Bondo in the US.  I use the nice flat edge of an old Stanley blade to fill light voids like that. Do an initial application that's smooth and level with the surrounding surface. Yeah I know, the tendency for advice will be to slightly overfill it just above the surface and sand it back to smooth. The problem with overfilling is that the effort will likely yield bumpy messy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- with a whole lot of sanding to follow! Just get a nice smooth surface that when set, is slightly shy of the top surface.  Sand this back to smooth and then smear a second fill layer over the top, again with a blade or similar. Sand that back with 400 grit and voila! void gone, nice smooth surface to prime.

So long as the filler primer you are using is not water based several coats and sanding back with 200 then 400 grit will get you where you need to be. Water based anything and MDF are not a good match. Water based finishes take too long to dry and inevitably swell MDF.

Some extra thoughts: When I talk about acrylic paint I am not talking about latex/water based paint. I only ever mean solvent based automotive acrylic lacquer. This is thinned with acetone or mixed acrylic solvent.
The quality of polyester resin based filler or car body bog/filler can vary a lot. Cheap bog is terrible ---smurfy--- stuff. Lumpier to work with and harder to smooth. Premium quality or heavy duty filler like Selleys Plasti-Bond is what I use. Costs more, but well worth it. Easier to get really smooth, less air pockets, sets harder and tends to expand and shrink with MDF better, especially in varying or changing temperature conditions.

Hindsight is all well and good, ha hah, a sandwiched composite board approach would have worked too! Doesn't matter, to my eye the work you've done is good. Overall this design is a really cool idea. A worn metal look will really suit it.

[Zebidee]

Ond, that is the best filling and painting advice I've heard in decades!   

I may base all appropriate future work on this.

[javeryh]

A few comments looking at the rebated board below. The edge cut is indeed clean (good work!) and that's what matters. Patching torn up edges is much more difficult than flat surfaces. Those shallow accidental cuts are best filled with a polyester resin filler commonly/generically called Bondo in the US.  I use the nice flat edge of an old Stanley blade to fill light voids like that. Do an initial application that's smooth and level with the surrounding surface. Yeah I know, the tendency for advice will be to slightly overfill it just above the surface and sand it back to smooth. The problem with overfilling is that the effort will likely yield bumpy messy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- with a whole lot of sanding to follow! Just get a nice smooth surface that when set, is slightly shy of the top surface.  Sand this back to smooth and then smear a second fill layer over the top, again with a blade or similar. Sand that back with 400 grit and voila! void gone, nice smooth surface to prime.

So long as the filler primer you are using is not water based several coats and sanding back with 200 then 400 grit will get you where you need to be. Water based anything and MDF are not a good match. Water based finishes take too long to dry and inevitably swell MDF.

Some extra thoughts: When I talk about acrylic paint I am not talking about latex/water based paint. I only ever mean solvent based automotive acrylic lacquer. This is thinned with acetone or mixed acrylic solvent.
The quality of polyester resin based filler or car body bog/filler can vary a lot. Cheap bog is terrible ---smurfy--- stuff. Lumpier to work with and harder to smooth. Premium quality or heavy duty filler like Selleys Plasti-Bond is what I use. Costs more, but well worth it. Easier to get really smooth, less air pockets, sets harder and tends to expand and shrink with MDF better, especially in varying or changing temperature conditions.

Hindsight is all well and good, ha hah, a sandwiched composite board approach would have worked too! Doesn't matter, to my eye the work you've done is good. Overall this design is a really cool idea. A worn metal look will really suit it.

Thank you! Good to know I'm on the right track. Bondo it is. Interesting about not overfilling the holes too - makes perfect sense. I have used Bondo in the past and have had success. The hardest part for me is getting the hardener proportions right so it doesn't cure in 5 minutes but also doesn't take an hour. I am planning to skim the entire surface where the material has been removed in order to get it as even/smooth as possible. I have 400 grit sandpaper too so I'll go 120, 220, 400.

Regarding the non-water based acrylic paint, is that the same as oil paint or something different? I have a sprayer that I was planning on using but I need to be able to clean it and in the past using water based paint I have been able to easily clean it by filling the paint cannister with water and spraying it through the nozzle. I think I only need a quart of whatever paint I end up getting because I thin it out with floetrol so it sprays better so I don't mind going the extra mile to get a better finish.