VMMaker shows only 1 analog output for 5450 where Calamity Guide says 2?

[Duffy]

Hi guys,

First of all thank you very much calamity for creating all this so that us plebs can enjoy games as they were originally intended!

I noticed when using vmmaker to install modelines that my 5450 only shows as having one analog output, where the guide says that Calamity’s has two analog outputs. Is this a bug? Could this be a symptom of the issues I’m having with crt switchres?

Thanks in advance,

Duffy

[Zebidee]

What video outputs does your video card actually have? If unsure, post a pic (of the output ports, end-on).

[Duffy]

I have a Radeon HD 5450 2GB GDDR3 (DVI-I, HDMI, VGA), i’m using a VGA to Component transcoder
With success, but some issues.

  https://visiontek.com/products/visiontek-radeon%E2%84%A2-5450-2gb-ddr3-dvi-i-hdmi-vga

The same one from Calamity’s guide here

  http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=1052#p1052

In the guide he mentions that he’s using an HD 5450, there are two analog ports, and to use analog1
for the 5450. No mention of AIB (whether visiontek, sapphire etc. unsure if it matters).

I’m wondering about this because I'm having some issues where groovymame doesn’t start on the crt through launchbox.. sometimes.

Something odd that happened this afternoon,I uninstalled every video driver and did a ddu cleanup for both my nvidia card and this amd card, reinstalled crimson and nvidia drivers, reinstalled  crtemudriver, and in VMMaker,
Analog1 was there. I enabled edid for it, but all that happened was my oled screen flickered (no signal from crt).
I went to the drop down again and the options were changed to just analog0 and the two digital outputs. I enabled edid again with analog0 selected, and then I get a stable signal from my crt. Still having the groovymame starting on the oled sometimes issue.

Here are my outs, thanks for takin a look man.

[Zebidee]

Maybe you want to specify the display in mame.ini?

On last (fourth) tab in VMMaker, there is a checkbox to export settings to mame.ini - make sure that is ticked and the right executable (*.exe) selected. This allows VMMaker to update mame.ini.

Only other thing I can think of is your transcoder - maybe it is sending monitor ID (EDID) signals of it's own? Seems unlikely, though if you've got one of the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- ones floating around on Aliexpress right now then who knows for sure.

You could generate a log file and attach it here - this should show what monitor Groovymame is trying to use.

EDIT: Instructions for generating a log file are at the bottom of all Calamity's posts.

[Duffy]

Mmmmm muffins..

I've changed screen0 in mame.ini to the current display label set by VMMaker which is \\.\DISPLAY9 (I've noticed the display number changes every time I generate and install new modelines which I think is normal?).

Edit: I do have the export setting to mame.ini ticked in the mame tab and have it directed to mame.exe in GM folder.

I think I am not doing the Groovymame install right, so I try to reinstall Groovymame following Calamity's 2019 Guide (most recent i can find):

  http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=433

In step 2, he mentions to unzip GM, give mame64.exe admin privileges. Mine is just called mame.exe, I assume they're meant to be the same thing? The admin privileges tickbox is greyed out for me. Any idea why?
In step 3, he mentions there should be a source folder in the ini folder, that's not there for me. Otherwise I follow it to a T.

Now I navigate to groovymame root, open mame.ini and set:

  rompath                   <path to romset>
  ..
  screen0                     \.\\DISPLAY5

Then I try to start a game through command line by opening CMD with admin privileges, navigating to groovymame root

 mame.exe -v romname

Mame now opens on the CRT!
But the game does not run, just an error message (photo below)

I followed the instructions from Calamity's sig to get a log.

  - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

In my case it the command looked like

  mame.exe -v romname >romname.txt

And the .txt file generated in the groovymame root folder.

Sorry if I'm being too wordy, I'm still learning and I've run into so many weird issues that I want to be as clear as possible, also I want to make sure anyone else having my issues in the future can get help from this.

Thank you very much for your time and patience Sensei! Oh yes before I forget, I do have a turdmuffin VGA to Component transcoder from ali express:

  https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806686968960.html

but I also have a wakaba VGA to Component transcoder on the way, it should be here in about 3 weeks or so, I had the same thought as you a couple weeks ago.

[Zebidee]

In step 2, he mentions to unzip GM, give mame64.exe admin privileges. Mine is just called mame.exe, I assume they're meant to be the same thing? The admin privileges tickbox is greyed out for me. Any idea why?

This would be about user privileges. You need to login as an admin level user or create the appropriate permissions for the current user. I think you can do this by typing WIN+R (run) then type "control userpasswords2", then selecting the user/properties to change group membership. But you'll need to be logged in as admin anyway to make the appropriate changes.

"mame64.exe" and "mame.exe" are essentially the same thing. Mame devs simply stopped adding the "64" prefix a while back.

I think you need admin privileges to install the CRT_emulator driver too.
I don't know if using multiple video cards creates issues. You'll need the real "sensei" (Calamity) to have a look.

But the game does not run, just an error message (photo below)

That is not an error message, it is only for information. You can turn it off via setting in mame.ini, though I prefer to leave it on. Just follow the instructions ("press any key to continue") and it will show the game.

Thank you very much for your time and patience Sensei! Oh yes before I forget, I do have a turdmuffin VGA to Component transcoder from ali express:

  https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806686968960.html

Those transcoders are little better than meadowmuffins. They are a cheap & nasty Chinese ripoff based on an early GreenAntz design that we shared on github in 2018. Back then we didn't consider it to be of "commerical" quality and were just kicking hobbyists ideas around. It "works", but notably, it has no voltage regulation, no sync clamping and poor signal management throughout, meaning you'll get inconsistent colour depth and may have difficulty getting it to sync properly with some video card/sources.

The latest GreenAntz v1.94 is much improved, made with retrogaming love and care, and comparisons (looking at performance of one, then the other) are like chalk and cheese. Out eyes tend to be very forgiving about poor colour depth/consistency, but you'll see the difference clearly when comparing one after the other. If you haven't guessed by now, I design and make GreenAntz transcoders. Let me know if you're interested.

but I also have a wakaba VGA to Component transcoder on the way, it should be here in about 3 weeks or so, I had the same thought as you a couple weeks ago.

The wakaba transcoders from New Zealand are better than the Chinese ones. When it comes in, compare to see why it costs a little more.

[Duffy]

That is not an error message, it is only for information. You can turn it off via setting in mame.ini, though I prefer to leave it on. Just follow the instructions ("press any key to continue") and it will show the game.

Well I’ll be darned, It works!
 Pressing tab doesn’t bring up the menu though, and escape doesn't quit like it normally does. Also when I direct launchbox to the groovymame mame.exe and try launching a game, i get an error saying it needs elevation? I’m guessing it has to do with privileges, i’ll try this here:

This would be about user privileges. You need to login as an admin level user or create the appropriate permissions for the current user. I think you can do this by typing WIN+R (run) then type "control userpasswords2", then selecting the user/properties to change group membership

For whatever reason, after reinstalling Groovymame,  alot of the issues I was having in retroarch went away too, where ps1 and dreamcast stuff was slowing to half their normal refresh rates and getting all choppy, so I’m a happy albeit a little confused camper!

The latest GreenAntz v1.94 is much improved, made with retrogaming love and care, and comparisons (looking at performance of one, then the other) are like chalk and cheese. Out eyes tend to be very forgiving about poor colour depth/consistency, but you'll see the difference clearly when comparing one after the other. If you haven't guessed by now, I design and make GreenAntz transcoders. Let me know if you're interested

Oh hell yea gimme! You actually make those? That is actually badass. Let me know what I need to do to get one!

Edit: oh one more thing, i’ve got this orei hdmi splitter that’s in my line

  https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07J2Q9NPH

It’s from the days when I was first starting and just using an hdmi to component scaler. It had a switch labeled EDID that goes from STD to TV, could that cause any problems?

[Zebidee]

Sounds like you are having "focus" issues with Launchbox. Can you get it back with ALT+TAB?

Just get GM running properly by itself first. Then worry about Launchbox.

 

Edit: oh one more thing, i’ve got this orei hdmi splitter that’s in my line

  https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07J2Q9NPH

It’s from the days when I was first starting and just using an hdmi to component scaler. It had a switch labeled EDID that goes from STD to TV, could that cause any problems?

I'm not familiar with the box. I guess that the switch allows you to choose what EDID signal (monitor or TV) the device reports back to your PC.  It claims to be 4K so I assume that is what it reports as.

If you're not using it ATM then may as well remove it to simplify your setup, eliminate potential problems.

Which raises the question, which video head are you using to output to the transcoder/component TV? The VGA? I assume you also have an LCD monitor or similar for your main display as you're using Launchbox.

[Duffy]

Oh yeah GM totally works now through CMD! I’ve never started games like that through CMD, the syntax in Calamity’s sig was a big help, thanks for leading me there. The only thing with it is I can’t use tab to configure controls and stuff, tab just doesn’t work, escape doesn’t either. I can use the gui if i just start mame.exe and can navigate with mouse, and the rest of the keys on my keyboard seem to work but not tab and esc for some reason.

Ok I’ll take the splitter out of the lineup for now.

I’m using the VGA head out. Weird thing is I can use the DVI-I as well through analog0 though. Yea I’m using a 4k LG oled as my other screen.

[Zebidee]

Nice setup!

Oh yeah GM totally works now through CMD! I’ve never started games like that through CMD, the syntax in Calamity’s sig was a big help, thanks for leading me there. The only thing with it is I can’t use tab to configure controls and stuff, tab just doesn’t work, escape doesn’t either. I can use the gui if i just start mame.exe and can navigate with mouse, and the rest of the keys on my keyboard seem to work but not tab and esc for some reason.

  I grew up on command lines and keyboards, Unix, DOS, BASIC etc. I distinctly remember being mildly freaked out by mouses and GUIs when I was about 20-ish years old, working for a company that sold Apple computers to big corporate and government clients. Apple were among the first to bring mouses into that typical office work environment.

Despite my strong computer science background, I did accounting work for them, and ironically used a Unix machine for that (no mouse for me). I did get to take early Apple Macs home to use though - mostly I just improved my mouse skills playing golf games (back then they were new & cool  ).

That was around 35 years ago, we've come a long way since.

Back on topic...

You can use the mouse in Groovymame, so go to General Settings/Input Assignments (general)/User Interface and check what keys (if any) are assigned to "Config Menu" (should be TAB) and "UI Cancel" (should be Esc). You can change the key assignments here.

A more foolproof method would be to simply reset everything back to default. You can do this by deleting mame.ini and generating a new file with:

mame.exe -createconfig

OR use the shorter alias version

mame.exe -cc

When you create a new mame.ini, you'll also need to run VMMaker again. Simply go into the VMMaker's config GUI and then just click "OK" to close it again. This will make VMMaker re-export the monitor range values into mame.ini, so that Groovymame knows what your CRT can do.

EDIT: You may also need to setup directory locations again (e.g. for ROMs etc.) if you are not using defaults.

[Duffy]

Thanks man!

No wonder you know how to do all this. I’m just happy I know what file explorer is lol. I hear even  that’s becoming  rarified knowledge.

Lol at being freaked out by a mouse 😂

Ok so I’m in General Settings > Input Assignments > User Interface, and there it shows:

  Show/hide menu. ..  tab not alt not right alt
  ..
  UI Cancel. ..             Esc

So that should work, but tab and esc still do nothing.

I looked in input devices and I see that under keyboard, it’s just my wireless controller listed. My bluetooth keyboard is not there as an option. Strangely, I can type letters in the search box, but tab, esc, and enter do nothing.

I tried to reset the ini like you said, but having the same problem. Have to alt tab and click x to exit mame. The sounds get sped up while I’m doing that.

Edit: i tried a plug in keyboard too, no dice

[Zebidee]

I looked in input devices and I see that under keyboard, it’s just my wireless controller listed. My bluetooth keyboard is not there as an option. Strangely, I can type letters in the search box, but tab, esc, and enter do nothing.

I tried to reset the ini like you said, but having the same problem. Have to alt tab and click x to exit mame. The sounds get sped up while I’m doing that.

Edit: i tried a plug in keyboard too, no dice

I'd guess that it has something to do with your Bluetooth keyboard, proper recognition by windows/GM, conflicts in device manager. GM might not even be looking for a Bluetooth keyboard.

Bluetooth has always been a bit hit-and-miss. It is essentially a wireless standard, but implementation by manufacturers seems to be a variable, and you need both the sender and receiver to be good and interference minimal. Range is meant to be like 10m, but in practice can be less than 1m. Sometimes it works great, other times not.

Try the "plug in" keyboard (I assume you mean USB) again, but this time also remove the Bluetooth completely (turn it off) and reboot machine so that it re-allocates device IDs to everything. Then see what you get in GM.

I've been using these "2.4Ghz mini wireless keyboards" with my arcade machines are they are great. All the main online marketplaces have them. The only issue I've had is that my cabs have metal control panels which tend to block the signal, so sometimes have to move it up or down a little.

[Duffy]

Ok, tried that, atill having the same issue. Those 2.4 ghz travel keyboards are pretty cool, that would be useful for my kvm switch when i’m trying to switch over and  do linux stuff on my steam deck, I’ve got a modified driver for one of my bluetooth dongles for dolphin and it doesn’t like it when i unplug either one of them.

Btw did you get my message? Hard to tell if stuff sent on here, don’t know if there’s a sent folder anywhere.

[PL1]

Hard to tell if stuff sent on here, don’t know if there’s a sent folder anywhere.

Saving sent PMs is turned off by default.
- Go into your profile. (click on your username or the "profile" icon at the top of the page)
- Go into the "Modify Profile -- Personal Messaging" menu.
- Enable "Save a copy of each personal message in my sent items by default.".
- Click on "Change Profile".

To see your sent PMs, click on "My Messages -- Read Your Messages" then above the list of messages click on "Messages -- Sent Items".   


Scott

[Zebidee]

Perhaps someone else has some insight.

Here's an idea. You have multiple controllers. If you look in mame.ini under "CORE INPUT OPTIONS", there is an option to enable multiple keyboards. Try enabling that:

-multikeyboard  1

I got your message and replied.

Thanks Scott for the info.

[Duffy]

To see your sent PMs, click on "My Messages -- Read Your Messages" then above the list of messages click on "Messages -- Sent Items".   

Oh cool, thanks Scott! Cheers man

Here's an idea. You have multiple controllers. If you look in mame.ini under "CORE INPUT OPTIONS", there is an option to enable multiple keyboards. Try enabling that:

-multikeyboard  1

Ok I’ll try that when I get home, thanks again!

[PL1]

-multikeyboard  1

Actually, that setting can cause the problem that Duffy described.

You shouldn't use this option unless you need to differentiate between two or more keyboard encoders with overlapping keystrokes -- it can cause problems due to the Windows device renumbering issue.

    "-multikeyboard  1" will only accept the keystroke from one specific keyboard number.
    "-multikeyboard  0" will accept the keystroke from any keyboard.

If you change it from disabled (0) to enabled (1), ESC and TAB will stop working in the game
- Enabled multikeyboard in mame.ini.  Launched dkong3 in MAME 0.262.  Had to Alt-TAB to exit the game.  Disabled multikeyboard in mame.ini.  Relaunched MAME.  Everything was working again.

If disabling it doesn't fix the problem, you may need to delete or edit the associated .cfg (configuration) file(s) in the "\mame\cfg\" folder.

Worst case, do a fresh reinstall of GroovyMAME.


Scott

[Duffy]

If disabling it doesn't fix the problem, you may need to delete or edit the associated .cfg (configuration) file(s) in the "\mame\cfg\" folder.

Multikeyboard was set to 0, I tried both ways but no dice.

I think I figured it out, at least for in launchbox.
In launchbox I was going to tools > manage > emulators, and just editing the application path to groovymame’s mame.exe, which is obviously wrong in retrospect.

Instead I had to add a new emulator, called it groovymame, and set it up normally. Now I can launch mame games through launchbox/groovymame. Importantly, I got a dialogue saying it needed to add a commandline called

  -keyboardprovider dinput

Now when I launch a mame game, I can use my keyboard like normal!
I think that commandline parameter was what solved it. I probably won’t be starting games through commandline normally, but out of curiosity, would i need to add that parameter in the syntax somewhere? What would that look like?


Thank you Zebidee and Scott for talking it out with me, it really helped a lot.

[PL1]

I got a dialogue saying it needed to add a commandline called

  -keyboardprovider dinput

Now when I launch a mame game, I can use my keyboard like normal!
I think that commandline parameter was what solved it. I probably won’t be starting games through commandline normally, but out of curiosity, would i need to add that parameter in the syntax somewhere? What would that look like?

Now that you know the software switch that fixes your issue, pretty sure you can avoid the extra typing/syntax by changing keyboardprovider to "dinput" under "OSD INPUT OPTIONS" in mame.ini as shown below.

#
# OSD INPUT OPTIONS
#
keyboardprovider          dinput

You'll also need to make the change in any other .ini files that contain this setting because mame.ini will be overridden by the .ini files that come later in the sequence.

From the MAME manual:

7.1 Multiple Configuration Files
MAME has a very powerful configuration file system that can allow you to tweak settings on a per-game, per-system,
or even per-monitor type basis, but requires careful thought about how you arrange your configs.
7.1.1 Order of Config Loading
1. The command line is parsed first, and any settings passed that way will take precedence over anything in an INI file.
2. mame.ini (or other platform INI; e.g. mess.ini) is parsed twice. The first pass may change various path
settings, so the second pass is done to see if there is a valid configuration file at that new location (and if so,
change settings using that file).
3. debug.ini if the debugger is enabled. This is an advanced config file, most people won't need to use it or be
concerned by it.
4. Screen orientation INI file (either horizont.ini or vertical.ini). For example Pac-Man has a vertical
screen, so it loads vertical.ini, while Street Fighter Alpha uses a horizontal screen, so it loads horizont.ini.
Systems with no monitors, multiple monitors with different orientations, or monitors connected to slot devices
will usually load horizont.ini.
5. Monitor type INI file (vector.ini for vector monitors, raster.ini for CRT raster monitors, or lcd.ini for
LCD/EL/plasma matrix monitors). Pac-Man and Street Fighter Alpha use raster CRTs, so raster.ini is loaded
here, while Tempest uses a vector monitor, so vector.ini is loaded here.
For systems that have multiple monitor types, such as House Mannequin with its CRT raster monitor and dual
LCD matrix monitors, the INI file relevant to the first monitor is used (raster.ini in this case). Systems
without monitors or with other kinds of monitors will not load an INI file for this step.
6. Driver source file INI file. MAME will attempt to load source/<sourcefile>.ini where <sourcefile> is the
base name of the source code file where the system driver is defined. A system's source file can be found using
mame -listsource <pattern> at the command line.
For instance, Banpresto's Sailor Moon, Atlus's Dodonpachi, and Nihon System's Dangun Feveron all run on
similar hardware and are defined in the cave.cpp source file, so they will all load source/cave.ini at this step.
7. BIOS set INI file (if applicable). For example The Last Soldier uses the Neo-Geo MVS BIOS, so it will load
neogeo.ini. Systems that don't use a BIOS set won't load an INI file for this step.
8. Parent system INI file. For example The Last Soldier is a clone of The Last Blade / Bakumatsu Roman - Gekka
no Kenshi, so it will load lastblad.ini. Parent systems will not load an INI file for this step.
9. System INI file. Using the previous example, The Last Soldier will load lastsold.ini.

Scott

[Zebidee]

Now when I launch a mame game, I can use my keyboard like normal!
I think that commandline parameter was what solved it. I probably won’t be starting games through commandline normally, but out of curiosity, would i need to add that parameter in the syntax somewhere? What would that look like?

Add it via the mame.ini like Scott suggested. Most mame options/parameters can be set via the INI files. There can be many so it makes sense to simplify.

If you were to launch a game via command line, it could look something like:

mame dkong3 -keyboardprovider dinput

Note that the ".exe" suffix to "mame.exe" can actually be left off as the OS will automatically look for that type of file anyway. There are many shortcuts and aliases like this.

For short help, type:

mame -help

For long help (very long!) type:

mame -showusage

OR just use the alias:

mame -su

Lots of fun.

Command line options can also be easily added to Windows shortcuts. You can use the shortcuts to launch games with custom configurations, easier than opening up a front end, GUI or navigating a CMD window. I do this to launch a few favourite games from the desktop, for testing or play. You can even set key combos to automatically launch the shortcut. If you don't need the shortcut anymore, you can simply delete or modify it without affecting anything.

Just find the mame.exe in file explorer, right-click and "send to desktop". This creates the shortcut. Then find the new shortcut on desktop and right-click on that, choose "Properties". The "Target" is your executable, you can fill out the complete set of command line arguments there, including game name [machine] and any relevant options/parameters.

You won't need the exe's full path if the right directory (Groovymame folder) is specified under "Start in", which it probably is already (set automatically).

For example, my CRT TV is in horizontal (normal) orientation, but I want to see how vertical games will look on it. I might want to play Flying Shark and rotate the screen (to right!) virtually for best performance. So I setup the shortcut's target as:

mame fshark -ror

You might also right-click and rename the shortcut to something like "Flying Shark" or whatever works for your instance.

[Duffy]

Oh ok I’ll look for/add that in the osd input section of mame.ini.

Those are some cool little shortcuts, pretty wild how much more control you have in cli if you know what you’re doing!

Mame and groovymame are so awesome, just thinkin about all the work that goes into preserving all the stuff is mindblowing, really thankful for this community