Feedback Req on cocktail plans please

[Blakey]

Hi,
I've been lurking and reading for a while, as well as googling until my fingers bled looking at all the many and varied interpretations of cocktail MAME cabs.

cocktail.loungespot.com was a design I quite liked, being able to play vertical games facing each other, but also horizontal games side by side. I don't really like the US MsPac style cabinet though, with the Australian LAI style being a bit more ergo, but short on interior space.

So here's what I've drafted so far, it all fits on one 2440x1220mm sheet of 18mm MDF (just have to find a CNC router to cut it, don't trust myself with a jigsaw on that many curves) with black laminate on both sides.

I'm just chasing some feedback on the design, mainly on dimensions and such but I'm open to any and all suggestions and criticism. The end CP's will have 1 J-stick and 4 buttons, the long CP will have 2 J-sticks, 6 buttons each and an Ultimarc trackball between them with mouse buttons above. P1P2 start will probably be on P1's end CP, above the coin door (wired to both '5' and '6')

I plan on folding the sheet metal for the CP's myself, and sandblasting clear perspex with classic arcade characters/MAME logo to put behind the CP's with lighting behind.

I still need to finalise the monitor support, at the moment it will probably be 2 brackets underneath to bear the weight, and some sort of bracing up the top to stop it from moving at all.

I'm also considering whether or not to make the panel under the long CP hinged at the bottom for easy access to PC/speakers etc. The coin door is large enough to put a wireless keyboard through and fiddle with some bits, plus the top will obviously be hinged.

Here are the files, dwg (Cad2000), emf and gif. Press proceed to see the file after clicking the link. Some hidden lines aren't in the hidden colour, and not all dimensions are shown, but there should be enough to get the gist.
http://student.uq.edu.au/~s369258/orthoproj.dwg
http://student.uq.edu.au/~s369258/orthoproj.emf
http://student.uq.edu.au/~s369258/orthoproj.gif
http://student.uq.edu.au/~s369258/cutlayout.dwg
http://student.uq.edu.au/~s369258/cutlayout.emf
http://student.uq.edu.au/~s369258/cutlayout.gif

Looking forward to all the things I've missed/glossed over being pointed out so I can get to the building and playing instead of drafting and planning.

Thanks,
Blakey.

[Blakey]

Anyone? 38 views and no opinions? Come on guys, speak up and tell me what's ugly/wrong/right... I'd prefer to make my mistakes on paper rather than timber.

[Lilwolf]

It really wont be complete...

until you attach a pole position steering wheel or two on the back side!

I like it.  The sides have a nice look to it.  I think the vertical sides control panel could be a touch bigger myself... but hard to tell from just the gif file.

As for the monitor.... is it an arcade monitor?  If so, just put some plywood or mdf around it and mount that.  The monitor will hold from the 4 post on the edges... And if you cut a piece to fit over that and mount to it... that piece can be mounted easier (in some cases).

[Blakey]

Whilst a steering wheel would be nice, I think controller overkill would be reached there (One cab to play them all...). Besides, I plan on panel mounting a couple of USB ports either underneath a CP or underneath the cabinet, so I can hook up WiFi adaptors, PS2 controllers (for 3&4 player games), steering wheels...

I'm not entirely set on the CP dimensions yet, I have a test panel I've made, but I'll probably make another one with 1 stick and 4 buttons to test it out, and one with the trackball between 2 sticks/buttons to make sure it all fits ok. I can always stretch them a little in both directions.

If you want to view the images properly and don't have CAD, open Word (or Powerpoint etc) make the page size very large, then insert the .emf files, they're vector based, so you can enlarge them and they won't get blocky.

Unfortunately the monitor is a PC monitor, arcade monitors are hard to get in Oz (at least that's what I've found so far, if someone can hook me up with a 19" for a reasonable price let me know!), and a refurbed Wells Gardener would cost more in shipping than the monitor itself. The plan is to replace with a proper one eventually though.

[bloodyviking77]

Wow - plans look great!

I am the "planning stage" for my next project, which will be a cocktail along very similar lines to yours, though I am going to get a mate to weld me up some steel legs in an inverted "T" for each end rather than the "feet" approach . . .

re monitors:

bumper action in melbourne are selling some new standard res monitors pretty cheap (around $250 AUD)
www.bumper.com.au

and looks like they have cga chassis for $65 (might be used??)

zax amusements www.zax.com.au sells second hand tubes and chassis (but a little on the steep side if you ask me and shipping to queensland would be expensive).

There's been a few monitors on ebay lately - including a few "untested" chassis for virtually nothing.

I bought a gutted upright cab on ebay for $65 that came with an "unworking" 20" monitor  (fried chassis) that I got repaired by Joey at www.jomac.net.au for $80AUD plus shipping.

IMO, it is worth the extra hassle to try to sort out a standard res screen. - even if you have to get a bit creative!
 Good luck!

[Grasshopper]

It looks fine. However, for the sake of consistency I'd have the glass covering the horizontal as well as the two vertical panels. If you don't have glass covering the horizontal panel you're likely to spill drink on it.

Slightly off topic:

What I think would be really cool would be a cocktail cabinet with 4 control panels - two horizontal and two vertical. You could have different control layouts at each of the 4 positions. I'm surprised no one's done this yet.

For example, I'd have one of the horizontal panels with a Multi-Williams layout, and the other with a standard 2 player fighter layout (1 joystick + 7 buttons per player).  I'd fit one of the vertical panels with a 4 way joystick plus 2 buttons (for Pac games), and the other vertical panel with an 8 way joystick plus 2 buttons (for everything else).

You could set up a front end that would rotate the screen in 90 degree increments, and offer a different set of games for each of the 4 positions depending on the controls available.

The only downside is that the extra width needed to accomodate two horizontal panels would cause the table to look a little square. But I think this is a price worth paying.

[Tilzs]

Comments - on the cocktail that i built, I made the cp's with hinges on the bottom. I really think that is the way to go since it's really easy to open them up and get inside if you need. I can open my cps up from the outside and I have some switches inside used to turn on things such as the sound and whatnot. It's very handy.

I understand how you don't like the ms pac cab style because it's kind of boxy and decided on a Australian LAI style. Only concern there is that it's going to be a little harder to construct because of the mitered and angled cuts that are going to be required to make it fit all together. Ask yourself if you are able to do this with your woodworking skills.

780 is great plenty for the length of the side, you might want to shorten that up a bit for the cocktail. The side on my cocktail is 22" which is considerably shorter than 780. You might also consider extending the top out to cover the entire end CP. If you shorten your cab sides you can probably leave the top as is and the adjustment of the sides would probably make the top big enough. I think you'd be much happier if your glass overhung the entire end CP instead of just part of it.

Also if you aren't useing the standard cocktail top dimensions, which you aren't then you can't use standard glass and standard underlays. This maybe ok with yout you, my cocktail isn't standard cocktail dimensions. That being said though you may or may not want to hang the top over the 3rd cp like was suggested by grasshopper. On mine I decided not to since it would make the cocktail look more blocky and have a bit less of a classic feel to it.

[CitznFish]

Comments - on the cocktail that i built, I made the cp's with hinges on the bottom. I really think that is the way to go since it's really easy to open them up and get inside if you need. I can open my cps up from the outside and I have some switches inside used to turn on things such as the sound and whatnot. It's very handy.

I understand how you don't like the ms pac cab style because it's kind of boxy and decided on a Australian LAI style. Only concern there is that it's going to be a little harder to construct because of the mitered and angled cuts that are going to be required to make it fit all together. Ask yourself if you are able to do this with your woodworking skills.

780 is great plenty for the length of the side, you might want to shorten that up a bit for the cocktail. The side on my cocktail is 22" which is considerably shorter than 780. You might also consider extending the top out to cover the entire end CP. If you shorten your cab sides you can probably leave the top as is and the adjustment of the sides would probably make the top big enough. I think you'd be much happier if your glass overhung the entire end CP instead of just part of it.

Also if you aren't useing the standard cocktail top dimensions, which you aren't then you can't use standard glass and standard underlays. This maybe ok with yout you, my cocktail isn't standard cocktail dimensions. That being said though you may or may not want to hang the top over the 3rd cp like was suggested by grasshopper. On mine I decided not to since it would make the cocktail look more blocky and have a bit less of a classic feel to it.

This guy knows what he's talking about. Most impressive cocktail I've seen yet.

http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=16432

[Blakey]

I considered hinging the CP's, but I'm also considering having a slide in panel that will allow me access to the wiring and controls. I'll have a play and see what will work best/simplest.

I know it's going to be harder to construct, but I'll be getting the panels CNC cut, so that will take out 99% of the headaches.

The only reason I extended the length a little was to accommodate the trackball. I'm going to make another test panel with it when it arrives (today hopefully.. ahh crap, it's 5pm, guess not.) and compress it as short as possible.

I know I won't be able to use standard glass, but it's cheaper to get it custom made here in Brisbane than to import a piece from the US anyway. Likewise for the underlays, my screen isn't 19" to start with, so I'll put together some custom artwork at a later stage.

I did mean for the top to reach over the end CP's, not sure why I didn't fix that. I don't want to go over the side CP as I think it'll change the way it looks in a negative way.

A few more revisions and I'll be there, thanks all for the feedback so far, it's been very helpful.

[Blakey]

Oh, Tilz, three things,
1) Awesome cab
2) Your button layout on the end CP's, what's the numbering?

  1
234?

I plan on having 4 buttons on each end CP, but haven't decided on the layout, so many possibilities...

12
34

  1
2  3
  4

   2
1   4
   3

34
12

Or something I haven't thought of yet.

3) And the two sticks on each end CP, what's the deal with that? P1P2 or both for P1, or do you plan to have one a 4 way and one an 8 way, both wired together?

[Tilzs]

Oh, Tilz, three things,
1) Awesome cab
2) Your button layout on the end CP's, what's the numbering?

  1
234?

 4
123

Thinking was that there are few games that use 4 buttons that are have a vert orientation so the 4th button wasn't overly imporant to be in line with the others and I didn't want a line of 4 buttons. Even games that do use 4 buttons, the 4th is usually some special power that isn't used all that often anyhow.

I was thinking of doing this but decided to do the other route.

34
12

I plan on having 4 buttons on each end CP, but haven't decided on the layout, so many possibilities...

12
34

  1
2  3
  4

   2
1   4
   3

34
12

Or something I haven't thought of yet.

3) And the two sticks on each end CP, what's the deal with that? P1P2 or both for P1, or do you plan to have one a 4 way and one an 8 way, both wired together?

Well the thinking on the ends was this. I really like smash tv and total carnage so I wanted the cab to be able to play those games as 2 player. Both of those are 8 way sticks, but I would like to replace one of them with a switchable 4/8 way ultimarc at somepoint here soon. I just need to save up some money.

The other thing that one could do is use each stick as the controller as left/right handed. It's not really that big of a deal to me.

The other reason there is 2 sticks on there is that the cp is pretty long and there is a lot of room on the side so I can fit 2 sticks on there. One other thought I had was I could eventually replace one of the sticks with a spinner on one end and on the other end with a small trackball. I may do that someday but for now I'm pefectly happy with my cab.

Or I could just redo redo the control panels at somepoint because they are only attached with the hinged bottom so they come off fairly easily by just takeing out about 6 screws. The real advantage is I designed the end cps long so I dont' have to worry about not having enough room for controls for whatever changes I would like to make.  You might want to take that into consideration for your end cps as well if future control pannel changes are something you might want to do.

[Blakey]

Plans almost finalised. I'm having trouble finding CNC routers in Brisbane, but have called a number of laser cutters who say they can do it, so I've emailed plans to a few of them for quotes.

Edit, don't know why I bothered attaching that, it's almost identical to the other one. Most of the changes have been made on the cut layout and aren't reflected on the projection. Twit.

[Blakey]

Seeing as that last reply was so poor, here's the updated control panels. I've shortened the two player one from 744mm down to either 680 or 644, unsure as to if there's enough space on the 644mm long one.

I'm leaning towards the diamond arrangement for the end CP's, as it's easier to use the 1/2 buttons, and the vast majority of vertical games use 0/1/2 buttons.

Still undecided as to where to place the P1/P2 start buttons (full size, little men type), the coin door is under the P1 short CP, so perhaps there, otherwise somewhere on the long CP I guess.

Thanks for all the help so far, it's been invaluable.

Andrew

[Tilzs]

I wanted to use the little men buttons on my cocktail as well but I ended up useing the small buttons since there just wasnt' enough room on my cp.

One thing to keep in mind with a coindoor on a cocktail is that if you keep the mechs on it, account for that and make sure your monitor will still fit.

[Blakey]

I already have my coin door, and the blue box on the diagram represents the height, width and depth of the most protruding parts. It was to be mounted on the long sides, but it doesn't work when tilted, and would have hit the monitor there.

As I'm planning on powdercoating my sheet metal CP's I will have to use the little men, I'll play around a little more and work out where to fit them. I may just make the CP's a bit deeper.