Newb questions

[Cariba]

Hello All,
I have a couple arcade CRT cabinets, one with a vertical 412 in 1 Elf (19" vertical crt), one with a Neo GEO MVS system (26" crt).

I recently purchased and tested some arcade PCBs and wanted to be able to run various options on the arcades (both Jamma wired), but wanted to under stand FIRST:

1) Am I correct in presuming that if I buy and use one of the Pandora boxes (with for example 3000 games etc, or the ones with less) it would hook up directly via Jamma and I wont need anything further to display CRTs in the cabinets, but I would need dedicated horizonal or vertical RPi or Pandoras boxes correct?  BUT some of these Pandora's have both horizonal and vertical games, how are they displayed properly, even when using an LCD?

2) It seems that MAME is a good choice, but I find that is case with an LCD set up; where you can have art bezels, and display both vertical and horizonal (i also have a MAME LCD pedestal set up), so if I wanted to play just classic arcade games, on CRT, wouldn't pandoras plug and play option (right into Jamma) be best option?  OR would MAME still be the best option? what are the cons/pros of Rpi/Pandora's etc VRS MAME for a CRT?   I know that I would need to set up and use Grovvey MAME to display on CRT when using PC MAME (other than having a good VGA Arcade video card). 

-Is MAME only way to display both vertical and horizonal arcade games on a SINGLE CRT arcade monitor of accommodating size?

 - If a XXX in 1 or other Rpi/etc can display in both Vertical and Horizontal on a single CRT monitor, is there any particular Pandora's/RPi would be best recommended for this?  Any recommendations for a dedicated vertical or Horizontal otherwise?

This info will help me finalize plans...

Thanks,

[bobbyb13]

Only particular Pandora's box versions will work with a CRT so just be mindful of what you get.
As far as I know they all use a previous version of MAME as their engine and can display both horiz and vert games to a horizontal screen.
If you are a real stickler for authenticity then you will want to build your own MAME PC using CRTEmudriver and GroovyMame rather than use a Pandora's box unit.

The most important thing is pick your favorite 50 games and think about controls.

You will probably only play half of those regularly anyway- maybe even fewer than that.

Building for what you MIGHT play winds up a huge waste of time and resources.

[lilshawn]

XXX-in-1 boards typically use what we colloquially call CHAMMA (chinese jamma) it does not 100% conform to JAMMA pinouts, as some wires are repurposed for other buttons and whatnot... in particular the E/27 positions have been used for a button instead of ground. plugging a xxx-in-1 into a jamma harness results in "BUTTON6" being pressed all the time. not necessarily a problem in games that don't use the button, but a problem in games that do.

so putting a 5000-in-1 or whatever on your machine that currently has a 410-in-1 would probably work just fine.... but the aforementioned issue would arise if it where to be plugged into the MVS systems JAMMA harness.

[bobbyb13]

The above is all true of course, with the added fun that if your MVS has original wiring then that too is a deviation from standard JAMMA.

The speaker wiring is different and there is also a change to accomodate the game selection button on the control panel.
Ask me how I know.
Somewhere I have a pinout of the MVS main board connector if you don't find it beforehand.

More specific detail of your cabinets will help with advice!

[Cariba]

OK, I see, the reason I was looking XXX in one, is cause they are direct Jamma connections AND I wanted to have the (easy) compatibility option to switch between the XXX-1 and PCBs.  I think it gets harder to do that (switch to PCBs) with the MAME PC connection right?

Can you explain why MAME PC would be better emulating that XXX-1 or vers Rpi etc?

Thanks,

[bobbyb13]

A PC has more processing power so can play more games faithfully at full speed than a RPi and you can continue to update it with newer versions of MAME and also set it up to work with faithful screen resolutions per game.
If you want easy and faithful there is a lot of fpga development ongoing with plug n play jamma boards, like those from jrok and craftymech's BitKit boards.

It all depends on what you want to play and how much work you are willing to put into it.

Your game list desires will dictate which path.

[lilshawn]

XXX-in-1 boards typically use what we colloquially call CHAMMA (chinese jamma) it does not 100% conform to JAMMA pinouts, as some wires are repurposed for other buttons and whatnot... in particular the E/27 positions have been used for a button instead of ground. plugging a xxx-in-1 into a jamma harness results in "BUTTON6" being pressed all the time. not necessarily a problem in games that don't use the button, but a problem in games that do.

so putting a 5000-in-1 or whatever on your machine that currently has a 410-in-1 would probably work just fine.... but the aforementioned issue would arise if it where to be plugged into the MVS systems JAMMA harness.

sorry, i should clarify a bit... the pandoras box, game elf, and the like typically use CHAMMA, the 60-in-1 boards do use standard JAMMA wiring. xxx-in-1 and xxxx-in-1 boards could be a crap shoot as to what they are and could be either or their own non standard wiring (while still using the 28 pin edge connector)

you will have to double check with your chosen device if it is compatible with JAMMA or not. it's not a big deal to rewire a JAMMA for CHAMMA... just a couple things need to be moved around.

[PL1]

I think it gets harder to do that (switch to PCBs) with the MAME PC connection right?

Not if you use a J-PAC.
https://www.ultimarc.com/control-interfaces/j-pac-en/j-pac-jamma-interface/

Can you explain why MAME PC would be better emulating that XXX-1 or vers Rpi etc?

XXX-in-1 units use an ancient hacked version of MAME so you'll lose all of the emulation improvements since then and you won't be able to play any of the games that have been added since then like Kono e Tako.



Most RasPi images are running ancient versions of MAME and the ones that are running recent versions of MAME can run into the computing power limitations of the RasPi if you try to play a processor-intensive game like Gauntlet Legends or NFL Blitz.

PCs are more powerful and flexible, but they also involve more setup/configuration.

Which approach is best for you?  Depends on your wants/needs, how accurate you want the emulation to be, your desired game list (especially the "can't live without it" ones), etc.


Scott

[Cariba]

Yes, in terms of games, really basic early to mid era Arcade, up to street fighter era.  I have a DIFFERENT MAME system for everything else in terms of higher end games, 3D games, shooter/driving games etc, AND I was suppose to build a PC MAME system anyway for capcom cab, and I think I have enough computing power for shooter games like leathal enforcers etc.  What I am trying to determine, is IF and how (what systems) I can use that will allow me to SWITCH between using MAME PC system and PCBS (and even MVS system)...and trying to first understand what xxx-in one and, pandoras boxes, etc have to offer, and how they compare to MAME PC.  Particularly that I have not done my own MAME set up, and installing a pandora, or XXX in1 was more straightforward.

Further I've been trying to understand the limitations and requirements of doing all this on dedicated CRTs (as I am not doing this on LCDs).

So what I seem to have gathered (and humbly learned) is:  (pls correct anything I have stated wrong)

- (some) Pandora boxes can in fact display on a SIGNLE (say 26" Horizontally mounted) CRT monitor BOTH vertical and horizonal games

- Can XXX-1 boards do this as well?  or only certain ones? I know my Elf 412 in one is only vertical.

- A MAME PC set up can be connected to a JAMMA harness using J-Pac


Based on this, here is my curent plan of action:

For the Capcom 26" horizonal CRT cab

 - leave wiring Jama harness as is, and leave MVS system in place (I don't believe I have an MVS/Neo Geo wiring, as original cab and wiring was a capcom, and that is plugged into the MVS system - but perhaps I am wrong, I know that the cab doe snot have a select button to select game like a neo geo would)

 - Continue with the plan to install PC MAME system but using J-Pac connector (I Already purchased the PC and video card [and an I-pac]), this way I can perhaps also add shooter guns and games in the future.

 - This will allow me to remove main Jamma harness and connect to either MAME PC or MVS or PCB boards (with a switcher?) - Only thing is I am not sure how the main power will be handled to do all this

For the 19" Cab w/ Jamma harness, I am not sure, perhaps if the previous MAME PC build goes ok for me, I may just make smaller less expensive MAME PC for this as well, and use a J-PAC and as well, and switch between this and playing of off PCBs (with switchers).

So in general, as long as I can (power up) and have option to play PCBs or MAME I'm ok.





 
 

[bobbyb13]

Yup.

1. Jamma wired horizontal monitor cabinet
2. Jamma switcher from RiddledTV
3. J-Pac
4. MAME PC
5. Any other jamma board that displays to horizontal

Don't forget an isolation transfomer for the monitor.

[Cariba]

Yup.

1. Jamma wired horizontal monitor cabinet
2. Jamma switcher from RiddledTV
3. J-Pac
4. MAME PC
5. Any other jamma board that displays to horizontal

Don't forget an isolation transformer for the monitor.

Yes I believe there is an Isolation transformer already in place to run for the original Neo Geo MVS system.

How would the actual power be done/handled if I wanted to choose from using PCB board or PC?  would the the PC always power up, but not be used when using PCB or MVS system?  But then how would I safety power down the PC? or would a set up like this need two separate power switches, one for each system I want to run?
I take it when I disconnect connection to J-Pac and switch to Jamma to PCB or MVS that that is when PCB or MVS system get power?

Also, if I do not add any buttons to the system, what would I use as an 'exit' button on MAME?

Thanks in advance


AND with MAME do I not need a seperate amp for the sound?