PC Engine 6 button controller

[pbj]

So I've decided I'd like a 6 button controller/joystick for my PC Engine.  There's this schematic floating around online...



If anyone has any pointers for how to turn this into a PCB file I can have printed up, I'm all ears.  (Or, you know, if you'd like to do it for me and get some PCBs in return...  )

Anyway, KiCad installed....

 

[Zebidee]

Osh Park is US-based (I think) and popular with hobbyists. They do very small lots for reasonable prices.

EasyEDA/JLCPCB is Chinese and they have an online editing tool that links your design through to the printing/factory. They do small lots at reasonable prices. You can also upload your own designs without using their online tools, as you prefer. Search for "pcb printing websites".

The 5 Best Free Online PCB Design Tools Every PCB Engineer Uses

PCB design isn't that hard but you need a lot of patience. It can even be kinda fun, if it works, you win! Lots more involved than just being able to read a schematic.

[PL1]

If anyone has any pointers for how to turn this into a PCB file I can have printed up, I'm all ears.

I assume you'll be connecting regular buttons to the PCB instead of trying to use a gamepad-style conductive plunger to close button contacts on the PCB, right?

Given the size and complexity of the schematic, at a minimum this will be a two-layer PCB with plated through holes.

You might want to practice on an easier design like the the NES Arkanoid (Vaus) controller here or here.



One nice feature that baritonomarchetto included his 3-switch 4-position shifter decoder thread here is allowing the user to choose between 5.08 mm pitch screw terminals or 2.54 mm pitch screw terminals or Dupont pin headers for the button/switch connections.

 

Looking through the Sparkfun tutorial here and this video, it looks like there is a bit of a learning curve to KiCAD.




Scott

[pbj]

Found this, which gets me partway there:



https://oshwlab.com/ptchnk/PCEngine_ControlBoard2P_V1.1_copy



I’ll do what I do best… register for a foreign forum and beg.

 

[bobbyb13]

This is cool.
I'm looking forward to understanding some meaningful part of how this all works before I'm toast.

And who could be a better steward on such a journey?!

[Zebidee]

Give EasyEDA a go, is free. Try something dead-simple first. Recreate some of your sega game cartridge PCBs, something familiar yet useful like that. I see there are quite a few video tutorials around for it too.

EasyEDA has limitations, but it can do everything you need and gets you going pretty quickly. You can download your designs as files usable by the other platforms. Once you understand all the basics you can move onto something more advanced like Kicad.

[PL1]

Found this, which gets me partway there:

https://oshwlab.com/ptchnk/PCEngine_ControlBoard2P_V1.1_copy

Looks like this PCB is for the original PC Engine controller -- D-pad, 2 player buttons, Select, and Run. (no switches)



The schematic you posted earlier appears to be for a variation on the PC Engine Duo-RX "Arcade Pad 6" controller -- D-pad, 6 player buttons, Select, Run, and 7 switches. (schematic shows 4 switches)



Which controller type do you want?


Scott

[PL1]

I’ll do what I do best… register for a foreign forum and beg.

What do you need to beg for?

Other the Single Inline Pack (SIP) 8x47k resistor pack (vertical 2nd row of 9 pads from the upper left), the components are pretty obvious and should be easy to source.

The inline resistor pack almost certainly contains "bussed resistors" like this one  or this one with the common (pin 1) marked with an "X" on the PCB. (see page 2 of the datasheet here for schematic)

 

On the PCB page you linked to, click on "Open in editor" under Design Drawing to view the layers of the board and connections by hovering over components, traces, or pads.
- You can also export a .zip file containing the Gerber files that are needed to fabricate the PCB using the "Fabrication--PCB Fabrication Files (Gerber)" menu entry.   


Scott

[bobbyb13]

Well, ---steaming pile of meadow muffin----
I thought I would be able to follow along for longer than that-
 

[mourix]

I work as a PCB/Hardware design engineer these days and was bored last night... This should fit the 2 dollar 5x5cm 2-layer option on JLCPCB. Enjoy




If anyone has any questions or finds a mistake, hit me up.

[pbj]

 

I’ve ordered 10 of them.

 

[pbj]

So, just because I like ruminating over silly purchases.

10 PCBs were $10 shipped from PCB Way.  I've done business with them in the past and it's always been a very smooth process.  I'm not entirely sure how they actually make any money off me but hey.

The required components from the PCBs cost about $40 all in shipped from Ali Express.  I have a million 0.1uF and 47uF 16V caps laying around from all the SEGA cartridges.




I bought 10 8 pin mini DIN cables from this person, they cut me a good deal (~$33 shipped).  The cables are 6 feet and not 10 which is disappointing but they do work perfectly with the PC Engine.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/385106570311

Seller took my best offer and I picked this up for $26 taxed and shipped:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/385364892973

I think it is a rebadged Qanba Drone.  I'll make it work.


So... $10 + $40.74 + $33 + $26.....  Yeah.  $110.  To play one game for 15 minutes.


 

[Zebidee]

The required components from the PCBs cost about $40 all in shipped from Ali Express.  I have a million 0.1uF and 47uF 16V caps laying around from all the SEGA cartridges.

Not bad for a small run.

Maybe not millions, but I also seem to have literally thousands of 0.1uF caps, both ceramic disc and monolithic 

[mourix]

I am liking the enthusiasm but as this is a prototype that may or may not have bugs in the design.. why would you not just order the parts for one or two units?

[Zebidee]

With this kind of project, you may as well order parts for 10 or more because:

a) those are the minimum lots they are typically sold in online
b) once you factor in freight, there is almost no difference in total price
c) some parts can be easy to damage when installing - best to have ready replacements available.
d) all of the above applies to getting PCBs printed too: If you are getting one you may as well get 5 or 10
e) while you might want to redesign the PCB later, all the main parts should still be useful.
f) if you have parts for 10, you can make more for yourself or your mates

Another reason is that once you get into this sort of tinkering, having a range of commonly used parts at hand helps you to maintain momentum and complete projects, rather than letting them gather dust and become forgotten while you wait for stuff to arrive.

[pbj]

I am liking the enthusiasm but as this is a prototype that may or may not have bugs in the design.. why would you not just order the parts for one or two units?

Anything worth doing is worth overdoing.  The pcbs were the cheapest part of this project.  Obviously I assemble and test one and see how it goes.  The needed components won’t change.

Plus, I believe in you.

 

[pbj]

PCBs are here…

[mourix]

Alrighty, let's overdo this shiz

Just remember the seperate grounds for I and II, plus the four SPDT switches for settings. If you don't care about those, just use a common ground and jumper a random setting.

[pbj]

Well, I assembled one.  When I first plug it in while a game is running, it will simultaneously send a down and I or II input to the console and then do nothing else.  Manually grounding each input gets no response beyond that initial pulse.   

I'll double check my cable.... so... many... wires...

[mourix]

Now comes the debugging magic time... Got pics of your wired boards?

[pbj]

So, I think I've jumped it to A mode, no turbo on I or II, and no slow motion.



I've been playing around with it some more.  If I ground out the Run input, then buttons I and II work properly when grounded to GI or GII.

Otherwise not getting any response.

(and I don't have a 47k ohm resistor laying around, oops, so that's why R2 is a cobbled monster)

[pbj]

Maybe a better pic...

[pbj]

There’s another schematic floating around but I’m not sure he ever got it fully working

[mourix]

The jumpers are correct as you stated.

Sanity checks:

• I don't see all the solder joints flowing to the top. Are they all soldered down properly?
• Did you put 100pF at C6 and not accidentally 100nF?
• Are the 9 pin resistor arrays the right way around?

[pbj]

Common pin is at the top on RN1 and RN3.  On the bottom of RN2.  I’ll double check the soldering and C6 value.

 

[mourix]

This site says "switch that toggles between two-button controls (A mode) and six-button controls (B mode)".

You might get more response soldering the jumper to B mode

I see the 100 pf missing on your buy list so am suspicious of that one..

[pbj]

Okay, took another look at it.  I didn't realize C6 was a different value.  I have a 100nF / 0.1uF capacitor there.  I'll get some of those 100pF ordered.

Put a toggle switch on A/B mode and soldered components on the top side of the board, too.  I'm noticing that the options menu will briefly show a 6 button controller plugged in, regardless of what that toggle switch is set to.


Edit - I removed C6 and tried the PCB with nothing in that slot.  Now it toggles back and forth between 2 and 6 button mode correctly in the options menu.  Definite progress.

 

[mourix]

Awesome! I was gonna say to remove it as it's just a basic filter on the clock line. What's the status on the inputs?

[pbj]

Same behavior.  Controller pulses a down and button input when plugged in.  If I ground out the Run input, I can get buttons I and II to respond if I ground them to their respective inputs.

[mourix]

Alright. I would try to check the resistor arrays with your multimeter to really confirm they are good and the bussed ones have the common on dotted PCB pin.

I usually order these IC's for a few units on places like Mouser. Those ones on your board do look quite rough so I hope we did not get a recycled dud ruining your party.

Do you own an oscilloscope? This really is just a few multiplexers when you turn off the turbo stuff

[pbj]

Did I get the correct arrays?  Here's what I ordered:

8P 330R A331J

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804160893121.html

A09-473 47K

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256802285129102.html

[mourix]

Those seem fine at first glance but I'm afraid we are at the stage where stuff has to be measured to be sure of anything..

[pbj]

So, I think I put in a bussed network array for the 330 Ohm RN2 and what I really needed was an exclusion/isolated array.

 

The only 330 Ohms I have laying around are huge flame proof stuff I probably bought to fix an amplifier or something.  Anyway, I'll get the right part ordered. 

[mourix]

I do see some random datasheets saying A is bussed now I looked once more. Wouldn't have spotted it from the ali listing tho.

Again, this is just a non critical series protection resistor pack. I think any resistor less than 1K you may have laying around would work fine as a quick confirmation test.

[pbj]

I pulled off that 8 pin bussed array and stuck in 4 220 Ohm resistors.  I've got up, down, left, and right now.  It's all getting so jumbled and overworked I may just start with a fresh board.   

Anyway, that filter capacitor should arrive in the next day or two.  I think we're very close!

 

EDIT:  Success!  I've gotten every input to fire in both 2 and 6 button mode.  I'm going to start over with a fresh board and proper components but the concept has been proven.

[mourix]

Yesss! This makes me happy. Transatlantic troubleshouting worked somehow. Can't wait to see it finished

Now the final part is to test the turbo modes, but those are less critical.

[pbj]

Couldn't arouse any interest from a prolific video game blogger that's made controllers to play single games before... but I tried.

Here's my second swing at this.  I couldn't find a 330ohm isolated array at a decent price, so I went with 4 individual resistors on their side and heat shrink wrapped.  Otherwise else should be exactly according to spec.



Budai for scale.

 

[mourix]

Aww, well you did go all out. I like the finishing touches with the colored headers and heat shrinked resistors.

[pbj]

Bought one of these....



It's some PS3/PC joystick called "RockSoul" and there's virtually no trace of it on the internet.  But some guy on ebay is selling them CIB for $25 shipped.



On the inside, it looks suspiciously like a stripped down Qanba Drone.




Anyway, snipped everything out of the joystick.  (who the hell needs a direct input controller?)  Left pigtail wires in case I wanted to restore it back.  Select and Run are wired to those two little buttons at the top right.  I - VI are in a SF2 layout.  The rightmost buttons will eventually be made into redundant Run/Select buttons for those "three button" PCE games.  I've got 16MM toggle buttons coming in the mail to fill those five holes.  That will cover mode, slow motion, and turbo I and turbo II

So everything is working great for SF2, but I'm having some weird, weird issues with the PCB.  Basically when I plug it in, it's throwing a Select input at the console.  And seems to do so randomly.  If I boot it up into CD mode, it goes to the memory management screen and I can't get out of it.  I can't control my Everdrive clone menu with it.  But I can hit select to start the most recently loaded game.  When I play Strip Fighter 2, I can control the menus and character select screens perfectly.  In an actual fight, my character does nothing.  But I can pause!

Not entirely sure what's going on.  Perhaps a ceramic capacitor between select and ground?

[mourix]

Looking really nice, just a shame with the input situation. I guess double checking every component and even measuring the bussed resistor pack is the start.

What test equipment do you own? I would order a PCB to try it myself but I don't own a PC Engine...