4 player control panel theory

[krick]

After much thought about combo 2/4 player control panels, I've come to a few realizations...

There are only a limited number of ways to lay out a control panel given the following assumptions...

1) player 1 is always to the left of player 2
2) player 3 is always to the left of player 4

If you number the positions of the player's joysticks from left to right, you can only have one of the following patterns:

a) 1234
b) 1324
c) 1342
d) 3124
e) 3142
f) 3412

Layouts 'a' and 'f' probably aren't any good because player 1 & 2 are crammed into the left or right half of the panel.

Layout 'c' is interesting because it puts the maximum distance between player 1 and 2.  However, this would probably result in player 3 and 4 being too cramped in the middle.

Layout 'd' is nice because player 1 and 2 will be directly in front of the screen.  However, with a small control panel, this may prove too cramped for everyday use.

That leaves two layouts, 'b' and 'e'.  These are the layouts that I think most 4 player panel designers arrive at eventually (or something very close to them).  While neither player 1 or 2 is perfectly centered on the screen they are separated by a player (3 or 4) in between them which gives a little extra elbow room on 2 player games.

(The images below taken from another post.  I'm sorry that I cannot remember who originally posted them.  If you see this, just let me know and I'll give you credit)


This is the 1324 layout:


The advantage here is that the joysticks are somewhat evenly spaced for maximum comfort in 4 player games.  However, this layout isn't ideal for Smash TV or Robotron as the sticks are probably too far apart.



This is the 3142 layout:


The main advantage to this layout is that it is ideal for playing SmashTV or Robotron.  The sticks can be spaced fairly close together as they are on a Smash TV machine.  The obvious drawback is that the joysticks are a lot less evenly spaced and will be more cramped in a 4 player game.  However, the button positioning might be better for 4 player games than the 1324 layout.


...
Krick

[Jakobud]

I use the 3124 method.  This seems totally the most logical to me for many reasons:

1. Allows for play of Robotron
2. Allows for play of SmashTV / Total Carnage
3. Most games played are 1 or 2 players.  Having them both in the middle is a priority.  Having them to the side in a 1234 layout would not make sense.
4. This still allows for 4 player games comfortably.

[SirPoonga]

If *I* was to build a dedicated 4 player control panel.

It would be 3124 for 1 and 2 player games, 1234 for 3 and greater games.  You can set that up using my crlr file hacks which are in No name Mame.

Looking at the pic for the 3142, looks like it owuld be ideal to support a bunch of stuff, the joys are close for robotron and smash tv.

[Sephroth57]

3124 is the only way to go, 1 and 2 not being in the middle of the screen would just be dumb. then theres the debate on why you would even want a 4p CP cause theres like 30 games u can play with 4 people and most of them suck , but thats another story =P

[LoRDDeVO]

then theres the debate on why you would even want a 4p CP cause theres like 30 games u can play with 4 people and most of them suck , but thats another story =P

The deal with 4 player games is if you invite your boys in for a little mame action it doesn't matter how sucky the game is it that your chillin with your friends

[SirPoonga]

then theres the debate on why you would even want a 4p CP cause theres like 30 games u can play with 4 people and most of them suck , but thats another story =P

The deal with 4 player games is if you invite your boys in for a little mame action it doesn't matter how sucky the game is it that your chillin with your friends

True dat, but there is only a few of them.  That's why I have game pads and usb ports on my cabinet, player 3 and 4 will just have to "suffer".

[JustMichael]

SirPoonga,  I can't agree more.  Most of the time, my cabinet is only used by 1 or 2 people (90%).  Besides with players 3 & 4 on cords, everyone has enough room to stand without bumping into each other.

[SirPoonga]

Excatly, 3 and 4 can stand a little behind others.  Though if you are planning a 4 player cabinet don;t go less than a 25" monitor.  My 20" is puny for 4 players.

[Rawker]

that's mine, it's setup 3124, and although mame doesn't support a ton of 4 plaeyr games, there are plenty on nes, snes, genesis, psx, and dreamcast to make it worth it.

[nipsmg]

Mine's set up almost EXACTLY the same way as Rawkers.

http://www.gerety.net/Images/Cabinet/panelnew3.jpg (900KB JPG sorry nothing smaller right now)

(No REAL panel pictures until the correct color buttons are in it.. Friday, hopefully :-D)
Although the 3-4 player controls won't get used much, It's so much LESS of the arcade experience when I have people over and they want to do the 4 player simpsons, or gauntlet, or NBA Jam, or TMNT...  I do it for the little people.  

And the panel is only 44IN wide.. which isn't HUGE huge huge, considering the cabinet is 27 1/4. I think it looks good.. but that's just me I guess.  

--NipsMG

[Wade]

In my opinion, if you make a 4 player panel that is to scale with the drawings you are showing, then it will be too cramped to play 4-player no matter how you configure the sticks and buttons.  Unless of course, you and your friends are 75 lbs each.

Rawker's looks like it might be doable though.

Wade

[Lilwolf]

btw... this is one of the reasons I wrote my frontend JFront.

I have 1234 when playing 4 player games
I have 0123 when playing 1-3 player games.

All with configuring mames default settings 2 times... and its all taken care of..

[krick]

The problem I have with the 3124 layout is that when playing 2 player Smash TV, the joysticks aren't spaced tha same for player 1 as they are for player 2...

This is the 3124 layout:


I could move player 3 farther to the left to equalize the distance but that would create a bit of empty space between 3 and 1.

My design is limited by several factors...

- I want the stick spacing to be the same when playing Smash TV.  Also, I'd prefer the sticks to be somewhat close together.

- I want all the joysticks to be in a single line.  No angled layouts.

- My control panel is 37", and that's just the width of the top.  When you consider the inside dimensions of the control panel box itself, I have a few inches less to work with.

- I may want to squeeze in 1 or two trackballs in the future.

So at the moment, I think one of the original 2 layouts looks most promising for my needs.

[Witchboard]

Those look familiar.  

If you are dead set on having the stick spacing the same for smash T.V. and want them in a straight line, then you don't have much of a choice.  You may want to consider having a 3142 layout though.  That way, your first player will be more centered for single player games and the rest meets your demands.  I really don't see any room for a couple of trackballs on top of 4 joys within the confines of your width.  Unless you plan on making your CP deep enough to accommmodate your trackballs you may want to look at swappable CP or something.

[krick]

Those look familiar.  

Are they yours?  I can't remember where I found the original image that I'm hacking up.

If you are dead set on having the stick spacing the same for smash T.V. and want them in a straight line, then you don't have much of a choice.  You may want to consider having a 3142 layout though.  That way, your first player will be more centered for single player games and the rest meets your demands.

That's what I'm thinking.

I really don't see any room for a couple of trackballs on top of 4 joys within the confines of your width.  Unless you plan on making your CP deep enough to accommmodate your trackballs you may want to look at swappable CP or something.

My control panel is about 15 inches deep.  I'm thinking that maybe I can set the joystick line back a little and put 2 trackballs in front.  If I used the 3142 layout instead, I could put the trackballs below the "7 button" areas and they would be relatively centered on the screen.

Here's a pic of my control panel as it is currently...

[Witchboard]

Those look familiar.  

Are they yours?  I can't remember where I found the original image that I'm hacking up.

Everybody uses that Visio template, it's very helpful.  The 4 button layout on 3 & 4 give it away.  It's not like it MY layout, I'm sure somebody has done it way before I ever showed up.

If you are dead set on having the stick spacing the same for smash T.V. and want them in a straight line, then you don't have much of a choice.  You may want to consider having a 3142 layout though.  That way, your first player will be more centered for single player games and the rest meets your demands.

That's what I'm thinking.

I really don't see any room for a couple of trackballs on top of 4 joys within the confines of your width.  Unless you plan on making your CP deep enough to accommmodate your trackballs you may want to look at swappable CP or something.

My control panel is about 15 inches deep.  I'm thinking that maybe I can set the joystick line back a little and put 2 trackballs in front.  If I used the 3142 layout instead, I could put the trackballs below the "7 button" areas and they would be relatively centered on the screen.

Here's a pic of my control panel as it is currently...

When I designed my similar layout I was working with a 45" CP.  I'm just afraid that it will be pretty cramped in there.

Here is the thread I started some time ago when I first decided to go with a 4 player CP.  Maybe you can find some info to help your decision.

[unclet]

Check out my 4-player Standup Cabinet.  Four players are comfortable with my configuration.   I believe in the photos there is a picture which shows the dimensions.

http://unclet.arcadecontrols.com/index.html

PS:  My theory about 4-player vs 2-player cabs, is that if I was going to go through the trouble of making one of these cabinets from scratch, then it was going to have 4-players just in case one person really liked Gauntlet.  Basically, if your going to do it, make sure you "really" do it!   I also love 2-player Karate Champ.

[LJHalfbreed]

Someone else posted something on a different forum.... and pointed me here...


Longer story shorter... Unless you plan on doing a frankenpanel that can play *every* game out there, I still don't see a problem with using a "canted" or angled panel. The ergonomics are just better for everyone involved, because otherwise there's a bit too much elbow rubbing and such if you go straight across. The only way to fix this is to widen the cp, and then I think it's getting a bit too much, because *then* you screw up the whole player viewing angle-to-monitor size ratio.


Yes, on a canted panel you can't play 2 player smash tv (and the few other 2-stick games) but if you're building a panel for 4 players, and you *have* the need for 4 players, then it's best to do what's best for players 3 and 4. Unless you're building a "does everything panel" with a ton of controls/buttons/trackballs/spinners/pedals/wheels, then feel free to do it however.

(FYI: on my 'does nearly every game' panel, I have ports for PSX controllers on players 3&4.... no sense in creating more "Controller chaos")

Just my 2 cents.