TV or Monitor Question

[Jabba]

This is a question I have from a felloe MAMER. I am really not that familiar with subject as I have gone with a monitor. Does Anyone have anything to add? Thanks in advance...

"I'm a computer guy by profession, so the technology aspects of building
a MAME cabinet aren't too intimidating, but
one aspect of the job which I've had some trouble finding information on
is how best to decide between an arcade monitor,
TV or computer monitor for the cabinet. I've found many sites which seem
to indicate that, depending on the display chosen, you
must use specific software (ie. MAME vs AdvanceMAME .... DOS vs Windows,
etc). More confusing to me are all the
descriptions of resolution settings and MAME configuration options which
must be applied to achieve that 'perfect balance' for
the majority of games to be played. I'm leaning towards using a TV for
my cabinet, but I'm still not sure if this is the best option. I guess I'm not looking for an answer so much as perhaps your
recommendation and if your knowof any web sites which might help explain this aspect of the build."

[Stingray]

if your knowof any web sites which might help explain this aspect of the build."

Send him the url for the monitor forum on this site.

-S

[TalkingOctopus]

If you can afford it go the arcade moniter route with arcadeVGA.  It is the most authentic and best looking display.  The arcadeVGA card makes setup really easy, and you can use windows XP with it as well.

I went with a TV and S-video only because it was cheaper ($190 vs ~$450 for a 27" wells gardner).  I am happy with it but wish I could have gotten an arcade monitor instead

[StephenH]

Depends on how much you want to spend, how much skill you have at assembly, and how authentic you want to be.  I will illistrate the pros and cons of all three:

Using a TV

Pros:

* Easy to connect to PC with TV-Out Video Card
* Come pre-assembled
* Low-Priced
* Decent Picture for Low-Res Games when S-Video is used
Cons:

* Can be slightly hard to configure software
* S-Video is needed for a decent Picture
* Picture quality is not as good as an arcade monitor
* Non-Game Apps can be difficult to read
* Some TV Outs do not work in DOS


PC Monitor:

Pros:

* Can run both PC Apps and Games, with a decent picture
* Can be cost effective
* Easiest to Configure
* Non-Game Apps very easy to read in most cases

Cons:

* Cannot run low-res games at native resolution
* Picture is "too good a resolution" compared to the arcade, and scanlines would be needed


Standard Res Arcade Monitors:

Pros:

* Very Authentic Picture for most MAME games
* Low-Res games can be run at their native resolution
* Looks like the real thing!

Cons:

* Can be difficult to Set-up, as you must run at 15Khz
* Does not simply Non-Emulation Apps well
* Can be difficult to mount and install
* Can be damaged by if a 31Khz signal is feed by accident


Full Range 15Khz - 31Khz Arcade Monitors:

Pros:

* Very Nice - allows all games to run at native resolution
* Authentic Arcade Picture

Cons:

* Expensive
* Can be difficult to get all games at native resolution

[NoOne=NBA=]

If the cabinet is going to be a "dedicated" cabinet, the arcade monitor offers the most authentic picture.
As mentioned above, they can be somewhat difficult to configure though.

If it will not be dedicated, I would (and did) go with a good sized PC monitor.
I got a 21" for about $200, and have never looked back.
The nice thing about the PC monitor option is that it will let you display 1600x1200 resolution for other programs (PC games, graphics programs, etc...), but can still be "uglied down" to display a relatively authentic picture for arcade stuff.

I tried the TV option, and found it the least preferable because the picture tends to be fuzzy on them, the coloration is spotty (especially in the menus), and the sizing is problematic on some games.

[Minwah]

If you can afford it go the arcade moniter route with arcadeVGA.  It is the most authentic and best looking display.  The arcadeVGA card makes setup really easy, and you can use windows XP with it as well.

What he said

One instance where a PC monitor might be preferred is if your friend is a big vector game fan - PC monitors are the best solution for these games (aside from a real vector screen of course).  Or as NoOne=NBA= mentioned if he is a big PC game/app user...

[Tecil]

I have two options right now for my project.

I have a spare 27" Panasonic Flat Screen (not panel) tv I can use with a Radeon 9700 (S-video).  The only down side to this is that the TV weighs a ton, so I'll have to really go all out on the supports in my cabinet.

I also have a spare Hitachi 21" Monitor that would work well, it doesn't weigh as much.

I was going to hook both up this weekend and compare the picture and see what I think from there.

[GGKoul]

My 2 cents:

I have a TV in my unit and I feel its the preferred way to go because...  By having a TV in your cab, your not limited to playing just MAME emu games via your computer... You can also play PS2, XBOX, Dreamcast on the unit and you wouldnt be able to do that on an Arcade Monitor (At least I don't think you can)

Another +, your able to watch TV, I know its not the ideal way to watch TV, but when you only have 2 TV in the house and the wife wants to watch one of her "reality" TV shows.  It's good that I can come downstairs and watch the hockey game and in between periods play a few games of either MAME, PS2, XBOX or Dreamcast.

If you go the TV way, just make sure you use a good S-Video cable from the Computer to the TV.


Hope this helps.
-GGKoul

[pmc]

If you go the TV way, just make sure you use a good S-Video cable from the Computer to the TV.

How critical is that? I have a 21" VGA display in my cab and I love it (with the horizontal scanlines enabled) except that I have to use emulators for console games and I also wish it was a tad bit bigger. But the PC I use has S-vid out because I bought it before deciding what to do for a display. I bought a 10' S-video cable so that I can play DVDs or display gameplay on a nearby 27" TV. The cable is a "GE" or "RCA" generic looking cable that I bought inexpensively at outpost.com. I'm NOT impressed with the video picture and damn glad I went VGA instead of TV/S-vid. It never occured to me that it may be the cable that's the weakest link.

Two things to note:

1) the VGA display is an old one with component inputs on the back. It's good for vintage games because the picture is kinda crappy (faded, a little jiggly, and with a small amount of barrel and pin-cushion distortion). It reminds me of an old arcade monitor. Scan-lines are a must. I'm sure I'd be unhappy with a modern state-of-the-art sharp display or a flat-panel or something like that because it'd be too sharp and cartoony.

2) My 27" TV is a 1990-ish model and is a little blurry and faded (washed-out). It looks OK with the comparitively harsh (s-video) DirecTV input. But I'm thinking the S-Video input from the PC may be so soft that the effect compounds to the point where it's really no good as far as I'm concerned. Video is GeForce but I ferget which generation. It's onboard an ASUS AMD-based motherboard.

I tried the composite output into a Panasonic SuperFlat 32" over a 3' Monster cable and the picture was unacceptable to me as well. In the end, I don't regret going VGA at all.

[Jabba]

Wow!!! Gret info guys. Thanks for all the excellent replies.

My two cents worth...I have a 20" Sony that I tried. My video card had S-Video out but the TV only had RCA inputs. I bought (which I returned) a Radio Shack S-Video to RCA cable and plugged it in. YUCK!!! I much prefer the Monitor. COuld hardly read any windows stuff.

Question to you all is that If the TV actually had a S-Video input, would the picture have been much clearer (i.e., as good as my monitor???)

Thanks,

Garry

[TalkingOctopus]

No the picture is not like a monitor even when using a TV with S-video.  S-video will be clearer than the composite video. However, small fonts in windows will always be unreadable on a TV.  Arcade games on TV's aren't so bad, but an arcade monitor is still the best option.

[Trenchbroom]

Question to you all is that If the TV actually had a S-Video input, would the picture have been much clearer (i.e., as good as my monitor???)

S-video is a noticeable improvement over composite (RCA jacks).  But is it as good as a real monitor?  No way.  Overall my S-video TV is "passable", except for vertical games--they just don't look that good.

If I had to do it over again I would have found a TV with component input and used that.  Best picture available for a TV and still much cheaper/easier to work with then an arcade monitor.

[GGKoul]

My 3 cents:

I don't know what type of TV's you guys are using.. but my 27" Zenith looks as good as an Arcade Monitor.  I have an Pole Postion 2 arcade and when you compare the 2, the Arcade Monitor looks a bit better...  But not that much better that I will would pay the extra cash to get an arcade monitor.

True, when I play Golden Tee PC or Tiger Woods on the TV, I have to look alittle closer to read the small print.... But normal font from 4 points up is very easy to read.  

And I have no issues playing any of the Mame roms on the TV.  As well as playing any PS2, XBox or Dreamcast game on the TV.  

Regardless if I have the cash to purchase an Arcade Monitor, it just makes more sense to just put in a TV instead.  I love the flexiabily having an TV provides.

No issues, watching TV and playing other consoles on a TV... and why would I give that up, so Pac Man could look 10% better on an Arcade Monitor?

-GGKoul

[GGKoul]

A TV will never be as good as an PC Monitor, since there's a big difference between the way things are displayed on the 2 units.  As well, PC Monitors have a smaller Dot per square inch then a TV.

[dema]

S-video is a noticeable improvement over composite (RCA jacks).  But is it as good as a real monitor?  No way.  Overall my S-video TV is "passable", except for vertical games--they just don't look that good.

If I had to do it over again I would have found a TV with component input and used that.  Best picture available for a TV and still much cheaper/easier to work with then an arcade monitor.

What is the best method of attaching the PC to the TV by means of this component connection? Will a NVidea GE Force 4 be able to handle this conversion?

Also, isn't it the case that only a TV has the ability to play both horizontal and vertical games without the need to rotate the screen? Everywhere I've looked it appears that a computer needs to be rotated, as does an arcade monitor.

On a sidenote, do any arcade monitors come in a casing? While I'd like the authenticity of an arcade monitor in my cabinet the idea of accidentally shocking or killing myself due to the current doesn't sound appealing to me. That's the one thing that terrifies me about that method.

[Lilwolf]

btw...

Other pros for TVs..

Easy hack for Xbox, PS2, ect..  Dreamcast is the only one that can easily get to an arcade monitor.

Consider smaller 19" arcade monitor.  MANY of the old games you are expected to be able to see the entire screen without moving your head (robotron)... the bigger the screen isn't always the better.  And there is a $139 19" new arcade monitor shipped with arcadevga for a 200 shipped installed solution!

Next...

ALWAYS go with what you have... have an extra TV around... you JUST found the BEST solution!  You can always swap it out later...  You can't unbuy something so easy.

[pmc]

ALWAYS go with what you have... have an extra TV around... you JUST found the BEST solution!  You can always swap it out later...  You can't unbuy something so easy.

That's been the fun of cabinet building for me. Going cheap and/or with what you have. I bought a cheapy used 21" VGA display but planned the cabinet to house a TV for when the day comes when I luck into the one with the right dimensions. I can make a change if/when the spirit moves me. I may swap an arcade monitor in there someday.

Cabinets are the best "tinkerer" projects. You can build many components (especially the computer stuff) from parts and cast-offs. Or swap for the stuff you need.