Arcade Guts Build Guru (kick in the pants) Help Needed. X-arcade, U-HID NVidiaTV

[websherpa]

Forgive the novel.

OK, this is kind of a long plea for help maintaining my sanity (57 year old here, no newbie, but essentially starting all over again and limited brain capacity).  I am looking for help, sort of a virtual helping hand both to make some decisions, maybe find someone who's plowed down the same path and can speed me along to smart conclusions (and save me a little time).

First of I am a bit of perfectionist, to a fault and sometimes that keeps me from "just go for it" and diverts me instead to "test every possibility and then never get anything completed" and "oh look at the squirrel." Possibly undiagnosed adult ADD.

So I've done a stand-up arcade conversion Hyperspin build, a cocktail MAME build and a skeleton Mini PC with various front ends build before but all of them are years ago.  I am an object oriented and scripting type programmer (old school) and an electronics guy, so such things are not beyond me with a good resource. 

But so many more choices now it's got me spinning in circles.

I am trying for "The Whole Enchilada" approach to an Emulation (early MAME arcade through older game systems, plus Virual Pinball maybe as a bonus) and Music / Video Entertainment station for my arcade (basically a large garage - I am mainly a pinball collector and repair guy).

I can go either PC based or Nvidia Shield TV Android based (and have been going in the Android direction for a bit to see how well it all works).  So let's start with the "ideal goal I had in mind:

Easy to turn on and use Arcade Emulator, mainly older-school joystick games and some older (but not most recent) game system emulations, it's 1080P 48" TV is wall mounted and can change orientations (but no sensor).   I have an old X-arcade Tank stick (currently Tri-mode Board) that I'd like to start with (and maybe add a spinner to) since it has most everything I need.... BUT I have it mounted on a type of sit-stand stand and I'd REALLY like to go wireless.  (The arcade base is not attached to the wall mounted monitor tv.  In part because it can be played sitting or standing by adjusting the height of the base. And there's no where to run the wire except over a busy pathway.)

If I'm ambitious enough I'd really like to switch out the buttons for LED buttons (to see in dark and also to help gamers know which controls are active for which game).  (I am thinking I need Bezels with controls showing as well.)

The Nvidia Shield TV setup (bouncing between front end choices but have it working nicely with Hyperspin) works really well with its game controllers (RetroArch), but I am struggling with controls for older MAME games.

The issue with using the X-arcade Tri-mode Board (wired) is that I am confused about whether it supports 2 player console games in X-input mode??  And for my average visitor, having to toggle between Modes at the back of the Tankstick just won't work. 

For wireless I've tried several keyboard/mouse bluetooth adapters, they work, but not in Xinput mode that I can tell. 

I could Padhack, but I am worried about what I may lose or need to reprogram to maintain MAME compatibility (my early experiments with modifying key controls on the Nvidia Shield TV to accept X-arcade X-input joystick haven't been all that successful - mostly because I keep forgetting how to).

Then there's the Ultrimarc U-HID Bluetooth which looks potentially promising.  I could bury that or another bluetooth adapter in the X-arcade tankstick box, add an outlet for charging a battery pack, kind of forces me to the PC solution though for LEDs I think.

And yes, I'd love to add Virtual Pinball to it since monitor can rotate to portrait.  And I am rather fond of Fruit Machine emulators too... but perhaps I am trying to fit too much into my enchilada now...

So, if you're still with me, anyone want to help me chart a path? Any similar project experiences?  Am I simply nuts and should just be happy with the Tri-mode board (or maybe switch of an i-Pac) and wired USB connection that I keep tripping over? 

Help!

[websherpa]

Did I mention light guns? Kind of the guacamole addition to the enchilada.  lol

[javeryh]

"The Whole Enchilada" rarely works well, unfortunately.  It sounds like you want to build some sort of pedestal cabinet with a 48" monitor hanging on the wall?  What games are essential to you?  I would start there and design around them.  I've found that while it is cool to have thousands of games available, only 100 or so ever really get played in reality.

For a front end you might want to check out Launchbox/BigBox- that is as close to an all-in-one solution as I've seen and it is really easy to set up and the devs are constantly updating it.  To me it's a bit too much for an arcade cabinet but for someone looking to emulate everything under the sun it is a good place to start.

FWIW, I have a similar perfectionist personality that actually inhibits me from getting anything done but I've managed to get around it by building focused arcade cabinets that do 1 or 2 things really well.  Pick a category like 4-way 3:4 games with 2 or less buttons and then run wild.  You still get hundreds of fantastic games on your cabinet but it obviously won't play "everything" but that's OK, you can always build another one.  Good luck.

[websherpa]

Thank you javeryh you are right re “the whole enchilada” thing but I do have a somewhat curated list of about 200 games or so (I like a bit of everything, not married to anything, but my demographic lives in the 80’s).  Plus I’ve done the 5000+ games route and ther I simply spend hours rotating to see everything instead of playing. My interests range from early arcade up through about around GameCube (PS3 would be nice but pushing it).  More home console in the later years, but some NeoGeo.   

I’m not worried about Front End.  I’ve done Hyperspin a few times, I have a Big-box based system on a mini-PC (I was one of the early donators/buyers). Right now I’m playing with Android front ends for the Nvidia Shield TV and have Hyperspin working well (gamepads, limited xarcade success) but leaning towards DIG.

And for a new PC build I’m leaning towards CoinOps, in part because of the curating and some existing set-ups for British Fruit Machines. (I grew up in the midst of the whole “coin-op” era and have eclectic tastes - my uncle was a coin-op distributor).

So therein lies the problem a bit, it’s meant to be a “generalist” arcade emulator.  It is part of the central “Entertainment” hub of my garage arcade.  Seating, music / movies / sports watched and some sit down or standup gaming (although I “might” move it and make a stand up pedestal in the end if it’s not used).

On that end of things I am thinking maybe I am hitting too broadly and should have two general systems, one sit-down mainly console and gamepad - which suits the Nvidia Shield TV well, and concentrate on stand-up PC-based for a second system with more area.

So that brings up two current issues for me, one is wrapping my head around whether X-input and Keyboard/Mouse emulators can easily get along (this MUST be an easy plug and play system for visitors, no “switching at the back”).   I’ve had “some” success with Retroarch mapping, but it was bugging me that the tri-mode x-arcade needs to be back switched and I am not even sure it’s x-input supports two player joystick games (or just one big gamepad)?   

And I really need to eliminate wires along the floor.

So pretty much first importance here is Bluetooth controller/encoder hookup.  2nd emulating some gamepad controllers on the modified X-Arcade (I’m experienced and handy in such electronics, but mainly a pinball repair guy so my depth here is shallow), and DO? I need keyboard encoding too?  Mouse/trackball (“Golden Tee” is a group favourite)?

 

[websherpa]

"The Whole Enchilada" rarely works well, unfortunately.  It sounds like you want to build some sort of pedestal cabinet with a 48" monitor hanging on the wall?

OK, I think I’ve figured it out and this advice helped enormously.  I’ll abandon the total “Frankencade”.  The main wall mounted tv / entertainment system will remain same with basic game emulation using wireless gamepads (probably focused around the capabilities of the Nvidia Shield Tv which provides convenience and easy user interface, plus music, sports, tv, ,voices etc.  So… other than tweaking a couple games and adding a couple extra favourites, I’m pretty much there.

After seeing an online a system based around Recroom Masters Xtension Vertical arcade setups I think I am focused on the direction for the next beast, either wall mounted or stand alone tilted vertical 34-48” monitor to serve as a stand-up arcade and Virtual Pinball. It seems exactly like the thing I was looking for including being able to customize bezels and analog controls etc.

[bollwerk]

I literally just finished replacing everything inside my X-Arcade tank stick, rewiring it with a U-HID board. It’s amazing. I have both joysticks, all buttons, trackball and 2 spinners connected and programmed. Just a single USB cord. I added a pass through USB A/B connector to the back, to unplug easily.
I programmed the sticks and buttons to MAME default keyboard keys, since I wasn’t sure you can have 2 gamepads on one USB connection with Windows.
I also have a Shield TV, but haven’t testing this with it yet.
Let me know if you have any questions.

If I get around to having a cabinet or pedestal, I’ll probably use a platform for the controller area, so I can swap controllers based on various games. (e.g. Discs of Tron vs Ikari Warriors vs Millipede, etc…

[websherpa]

I literally just finished replacing everything inside my X-Arcade tank stick, rewiring it with a U-HID board. It’s amazing.

Amazing indeed!  I’ve managed to get a little diverted by the BlueHID output limitation because I want to do some LEDBlinky programming and am thinking about switching to the I-PAC Ultimate now.  I went with the ”Blue” version because my original Nvidia Shield TV version was going to be wireless to the main TV in my game garage.  Since any additional LED controller board would’ve be Bluetooth, without considerable hacks and additional power, I think switching boards will save me some headache.

But after discovering the COINOPS vertical build, I decided that that was really what I had wanted and am going that wireless route for a stand up Pinball / Arcade machine instead so wiring the controls isn’t an issue.

I don’t quite understand the difference between the U-HID and an I-PAC yet, I am still trying to find a description of the technical differences in operation and purpose.

I was just about to go about re-mapping a Hyperspin/Retroarch build for the NSTV (having the typical issue of establishing a “shift” key for escaping AND knowing which button is which on an unlabelled X-Arcade (hence the LED Buttons)) but now it’s not needed, I’ll keep that a NXTV controller (or any controller really) based system for couch playing. (And likely switch to a DIG theme I like better.)

Quick question, did you use the existing button holes for your spinners, or drill new ones?

[PL1]

I don’t quite understand the difference between the U-HID and an I-PAC yet, I am still trying to find a description of the technical differences in operation and purpose.

Both are hybrid encoders that can accept inputs from these types of controls . . .
- Digital (microswitch) i.e. buttons and joysticks
- Optical (mouse) i.e. spinners, trackballs, and 360 degree steering wheels
- 12-way switch on a rotary joystick (requires 4 diodes to output as mouse movement)
. . . and translates them into keystrokes, gamepad button preses, mouse buttons, and/or mouse movements.

The U-HID can also light some LEDs and accept inputs from analog (potentiometer) controls. i.e SW yoke, 270 degree steering wheel, Pong paddle


Scott

[bollwerk]

I literally just finished replacing everything inside my X-Arcade tank stick, rewiring it with a U-HID board. It’s amazing.

Quick question, did you use the existing button holes for your spinners, or drill new ones?

Existing hole. The GGG TurboTwist 2 fits perfectly. However, I had to find a new wiring connector to use with the spinners, as GGG ships the TT2 with it's own board, with the connectors glued to it. I didn't want to cut those, so I found a matching plug with wires and got GGG to tell me which wire does what.

[websherpa]

I literally just finished replacing everything inside my X-Arcade tank stick, rewiring it with a U-HID board. It’s amazing.

Quick question, did you use the existing button holes for your spinners, or drill new ones?

Existing hole. The GGG TurboTwist 2 fits perfectly. However, I had to find a new wiring connector to use with the spinners, as GGG ships the TT2 with it's own board, with the connectors glued to it. I didn't want to cut those, so I found a matching plug with wires and got GGG to tell me which wire does what.

Which hole did you end up choosing?  I am looking at that but can’t decide which works best (although I may just drill another hole).  Thank you!

[bollwerk]

I literally just finished replacing everything inside my X-Arcade tank stick, rewiring it with a U-HID board. It’s amazing.

Quick question, did you use the existing button holes for your spinners, or drill new ones?

Existing hole. The GGG TurboTwist 2 fits perfectly. However, I had to find a new wiring connector to use with the spinners, as GGG ships the TT2 with it's own board, with the connectors glued to it. I didn't want to cut those, so I found a matching plug with wires and got GGG to tell me which wire does what.

Which hole did you end up choosing?  I am looking at that but can’t decide which works best (although I may just drill another hole).  Thank you!

Well, I did technically drill another hole, but now I think it's entirely unnecessary, because I've never used more than 6 buttons for any game. Buttons 7 and 8 for each player are really superfluous, so you can put the spinner in one of those holes.
If you do decide to drill a hole, make sure to put scrap wood on the opposite side, so you don't blow out the edge.

[bollwerk]

FYI - the U-HID does not work with the Shield, for the most part. Nothing encoded as a keyboard key worked, nor did the trackball. Only the 2 spinners worked.