Which Ultimarc board for arcade buttons with 3-wire plugs? *pics included*

[get_nick]

I'm trying to run LEDblinky on my arcade so that I can illuminate only the buttons that are being used. It looks like most of the Ultimarcs that people have posted pictures of use the boards without wiring plugs. My current setup has LED buttons and wiring with 3-wire plugs. Do I need to switch to different buttons and wires or will one of the Ultimarc boards work?

edit: For some reason I can't post the pictures from the Ultimarc. The forum is denying them due to security reasons.

https://www.ultimarc.com/control-interfaces/i-pacs/i-pac-ultimate-i-o/

https://www.ultimarc.com/control-interfaces/mini-pac-en/mini-pac/

[PL1]

I'm trying to run LEDblinky on my arcade so that I can illuminate only the buttons that are being used. It looks like most of the Ultimarcs that people have posted pictures of use the boards without wiring plugs. My current setup has LED buttons and wiring with 3-wire plugs. Do I need to switch to different buttons and wires or will one of the Ultimarc boards work?

Standard LED controllers like the one in the Ultimatc Ult. I/O apply a fixed positive voltage from an external power supply (LED PWR next to USB) to the anode (+) of the LED/current limiting resistor circuit in the LED button.

Brightness of the LED is controlled by varying the resistance between the Red, Green, and/or Blue channel connected to the LED cathode(s) (-) and ground.

To brightly light an RGB LED with red, the Red channel resistance is set to the lowest possible setting (max. current flow) and the Blue and Green channels are set to the highest possible setting. (no current flow)

LED           |                          LED Button                                     |      LED controller
controller
                     |---- Red LED -------Red current limiting resistor ------ Red channel -------variable resistor ---- ground
          5v ----|---- Green LED ----Green current limiting resistor ---- Green channel ---- variable resistor ---- ground
                     |---- Blue LED ------Blue current limiting resistor ------ Blue channel ------ variable resistor ---- ground


As Vocalitus points out in this thread, the three wires for your buttons are:
- Data for the button press encoder input
- 5v for the LED
- Ground for LED and button press

DISCLAIMER: The following is theoretical.  AFAIK this has not been confirmed working with this hardware. (or even tried)

You might be able to use those buttons with the Ult. I/O board.
- Connect the data line to the desired switch input (lower center pins on the board)
- Connect the 5v line to the + of the desired LED #. (pins on the far left column, or far right column)
-- Pin numbering on the left is +, 1, 2, 3, etc. (+ R G B label on bottom of board)
-- Pin numbering on the right is 49, 50, 51, +, etc. (B G R + label on bottom of board)
- Connect the ground to the desired LED channel. (i.e. Blue channel on pin 3 or 49)
- Configure LEDBlinky to light the buttons max. brightness Blue when in use.  This LEDBlinky color must match the color channel that you used in the previous step.
- When the LED lights and you press the button, the voltage applied to the button input will probably be low enough to trigger an output.



You might be able to do something similar with the Mini-Pac, but you'll need a separate LED controller.


Scott

[Vocalitus]

As Vocalitus points out in this thread, the three wires for your buttons are:
- Data for the button press encoder input
- 5v for the LED
- Ground for LED and button press

Depends on the button.  The EZ Starts button has two variants 4 and 3 pin.

4 Pin:





The three pin:

5v
Data
Ground


The SJ@JS Type:

[PL1]

As Vocalitus points out in this thread, the three wires for your buttons are:
- Data for the button press encoder input
- 5v for the LED
- Ground for LED and button press

Depends on the button.  The EZ Starts button has two variants 4 and 3 pin.

4 Pin:

The button picture in the first post looks like the "New Version" 3-pin button in this pic.

In the other thread you said that the encoder that comes with these buttons is an "active low" device -- that's what the wiring theory for connecting these buttons to the Ult. I/O was based on.   

The middle pin (DATA) connects to the lower pin (GND)to operate. so active low devices.

Based on the labels on the SJ@JX button image, that version button doesn't look like it would work the same.


Scott

[get_nick]

I initially tried installing LEDblinky with the generic boards the button kit came with from Amazon. I didn't expect it to work, but I thought I would give it a try anyway.  :

The set came with two generic boards, one for each joystick.

[get_nick]

I'm trying to run LEDblinky on my arcade so that I can illuminate only the buttons that are being used. It looks like most of the Ultimarcs that people have posted pictures of use the boards without wiring plugs. My current setup has LED buttons and wiring with 3-wire plugs. Do I need to switch to different buttons and wires or will one of the Ultimarc boards work?

Standard LED controllers like the one in the Ultimatc Ult. I/O apply a fixed positive voltage from an external power supply (LED PWR next to USB) to the anode (+) of the LED/current limiting resistor circuit in the LED button.

Brightness of the LED is controlled by varying the resistance between the Red, Green, and/or Blue channel connected to the LED cathode(s) (-) and ground.

To brightly light an RGB LED with red, the Red channel resistance is set to the lowest possible setting (max. current flow) and the Blue and Green channels are set to the highest possible setting. (no current flow)

LED           |                          LED Button                                     |      LED controller
controller
                     |---- Red LED -------Red current limiting resistor ------ Red channel -------variable resistor ---- ground
          5v ----|---- Green LED ----Green current limiting resistor ---- Green channel ---- variable resistor ---- ground
                     |---- Blue LED ------Blue current limiting resistor ------ Blue channel ------ variable resistor ---- ground


As Vocalitus points out in this thread, the three wires for your buttons are:
- Data for the button press encoder input
- 5v for the LED
- Ground for LED and button press

DISCLAIMER: The following is theoretical.  AFAIK this has not been confirmed working with this hardware. (or even tried)

You might be able to use those buttons with the Ult. I/O board.
- Connect the data line to the desired switch input (lower center pins on the board)
- Connect the 5v line to the + of the desired LED #. (pins on the far left column, or far right column)
-- Pin numbering on the left is +, 1, 2, 3, etc. (+ R G B label on bottom of board)
-- Pin numbering on the right is 49, 50, 51, +, etc. (B G R + label on bottom of board)
- Connect the ground to the desired LED channel. (i.e. Blue channel on pin 3 or 49)
- Configure LEDBlinky to light the buttons max. brightness Blue when in use.  This LEDBlinky color must match the color channel that you used in the previous step.
- When the LED lights and you press the button, the voltage applied to the button input will probably be low enough to trigger an output.



You might be able to do something similar with the Mini-Pac, but you'll need a separate LED controller.


Scott

Thanks for the detailed reply. This appears to be a solution for buttons that support all colors. Maybe I'm not quite tracking your implementation, but rather than individual colors illuminated from an LED, I'm really just looking for a constant on/off lighting effect. With so many games using 2 or 4 buttons, having all 6 buttons illuminated has been confusing to my guests. So I was trying to just illuminate the ones that are used in each specific game.

[get_nick]

I realize I'm spamming my own thread here, but I'm trying to figure out where things stand as far as a solution.

Should I just buy new buttons and wire them individually to something like the I-PAC2? https://www.ultimarc.com/control-interfaces/i-pacs/i-pac2/

[PL1]

This appears to be a solution for buttons that support all colors. Maybe I'm not quite tracking your implementation, but rather than individual colors illuminated from an LED, I'm really just looking for a constant on/off lighting effect. With so many games using 2 or 4 buttons, having all 6 buttons illuminated has been confusing to my guests. So I was trying to just illuminate the ones that are used in each specific game.

Like almost all LED controllers, the Ultimarc Ult. I/O is designed to work with RGB LED buttons, but it will also work with single-color-only LEDs like the ones in your buttons.



RGB LEDs use the Red, Green, and Blue color channels to control the red, green, and blue LED brightness.
- One button, three LEDs, three channels.
- The brightness of each LED determines the color you see.  i.e. if green is off and red and blue are on, you'll see purple.

For your single-color-only buttons, you can use the Red, Green, or Blue channel to control your LED brightness.
- One button, one LED, one channel.
- I suggested using the Blue channel because the button in the image you posted is blue and it would be easier easier to keep things straight when configuring.
- LEDBlinky doesn't know or care what color your button LEDs are, it only knows to switch each channel to the desired brightness.

For a 2-button game like Moon Patrol, you would want P1B1 (Player 1, Button 1/Fire) and P1B2 (Jump) lit up, but not the others.
- Connect the LED cathodes for P1B1 - P1B6 buttons to the blue channels on pins 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18.
- Configure LEDBlinky to switch on the blue channel for P1B1 (pin 3) and P1B2 (pin 6) for Moon Patrol.
- LEDBlinky should be pre-configured for most games or only need minor adjustments.

Should I just buy new buttons and wire them individually to something like the I-PAC2? https://www.ultimarc.com/control-interfaces/i-pacs/i-pac2/

If you want LED buttons that light up on a per-game basis, you'll need an LED controller like the PacLED64 to go with that IPac2 . . .

or

. . . you can get the IPac Ult I/O and pre-wired plug-and-play RGB buttons like the ClassicRGB LED Pushbuttons or GoldLeaf RGB Illuminated Pushbuttons . . .

or

. . . you can try to save some money by adapting your current buttons to work with an Ult. I/O.  If it doesn't work, you can buy the pre-wired plug-and-play RGB buttons later.


Scott

[BlueGhost]

If you are happy with the encoder and buttons you are currently using, you should be able to make it work with a pac-drive.  You could route the ground wire for the buttons/leds you want to control through the pac-drive.  This is assuming you have 16 or less leds you want to controll, otherwise go for the pac 64 or ultimate IO.

Since the button switch and led share the ground terminal, any button with the led turn off will not function until the led is turned back on.

[PL1]

Good call on the Pac Drive, BlueGhost.   

Forgot about that option.   


Scott

[get_nick]

If you are happy with the encoder and buttons you are currently using, you should be able to make it work with a pac-drive.  You could route the ground wire for the buttons/leds you want to control through the pac-drive.  This is assuming you have 16 or less leds you want to controll, otherwise go for the pac 64 or ultimate IO.

Since the button switch and led share the ground terminal, any button with the led turn off will not function until the led is turned back on.

Awesome, thank you! I'm going to give this a shot and let you know how it turns out.

FWIW, I am using two joysticks, 6 control buttons, 2 coin, and 2 player start buttons.

[websherpa]

Since the button switch and led share the ground terminal, any button with the led turn off will not function until the led is turned back on.

I’m just throwing out a thank you for this incredibly helpful insight.  Turning off an unlit button’s function could actually be a side benefit!

[get_nick]

If you are happy with the encoder and buttons you are currently using, you should be able to make it work with a pac-drive.  You could route the ground wire for the buttons/leds you want to control through the pac-drive.  This is assuming you have 16 or less leds you want to controll, otherwise go for the pac 64 or ultimate IO.

Since the button switch and led share the ground terminal, any button with the led turn off will not function until the led is turned back on.

Ok, so I finally received my pac 64 and I'm still stumped as to how to wire this up.

Right now I have standard 3 wire "ez buttons", two separate harness types, a pac64 LED board, and my encoder board (2 total, 1 for each player).

I read the attached threads, but they just confused me more.

1) Can I use the current wiring I have or do I need to create new harnesses?
2) Do I need another board or is the current generic encoder and PAC64 ok?

[BlueGhost]

You might be able to use the cables with the 3 pin connector at each in.  You can try unpinning the ground on the encoder side and moving it to the PAC 64.  They should share a common ground if they are both running off of usb provided 5V.

[get_nick]

You might be able to use the cables with the 3 pin connector at each in.  You can try unpinning the ground on the encoder side and moving it to the PAC 64.  They should share a common ground if they are both running off of usb provided 5V.

this thread is confusing. I'm not sure if the middle wire of the harness is ground, or the wire that connects to the "bottom row of the encoder". I'll try switching the middle wire and connecting it the PAC64. Thoughts?

EDIT: I just realized that the wire patterns aren't consistent across every harness. Some of the wires have the dotted line in the middle and some on the sides. Ugh 


Do I connect the ground to "LED Power" (#31) or Pin #1?

[Vocalitus]

Just wire the button traditionally and add a common wire to 5v.  Use a multimeter if you are unsure of the pin outs as they are not always the same.

You might want to hack a USB charge cable and plug it I to a 5v wall wart.

I did that due to buttons fading when plugged into USB2.  I think USB 3.1 has 1 amp vs 700ma.  It makes a difference.  And you don't want to damage the encoder.   

[websherpa]

(I don't quite get using a common +5 v here, I have to wrap my head aroung that, lol.  )

I haven't tried this myself yet, and to be honest I am not sure it will work given that the LED AND the Switch share the same ground wire on it's switch PCB so no separating it unless you want to do some soldering at each switch.

(Don't worry about the Zero Delay Encoder's wire markings, they are arbitrary but all of them are wired the same. Pay more attention to the TABS on the wire harness connectors themselves, when you plug those in to the ZDEncoder and the original LED switches you will see the relationship.)

Normally for encoders you have one two wire control wire harness for the LED (and either a separate or daisy chained + wire), and a separate +volt wire and a daisy chained Ground wire for the switches.

But THIS is a bit of a complex equation to get your head around if you're not familiar with electronics (and certainly not plug and play), and I haven't tried this with my Ultimarc encoder yet...

The Zero Delay Encoder (and associated 3 pin LED buttons) use a common ground wire which is the one with a minus sign (usually far right when looking at the button's PCB board). When plugged into the original ZDEncoder the LED is always on (i.e. the LED's +5v is the left most pin (one with a plus) when facing the button's pcb).  The middle pin of the buttons is the switch +, when you press the switch it connects ground to the centre pin activating the key press.

Soooo..... (and I am just guessing here with every expectation to blow something up - maybe someone here can correct me!!!) - in theory you connect the +5v from the iPac to the left + pin of the switch, connect the encoder's centre pin to the switch's centre pin AND connect the ground wire to a single iPac colour pin  (again, don't try this at home - wait for someone here to confirm it or correct me).   The ZDEncoder board doesn't use any daisy chained grounds just to make the hookup easier, but they are all connected on it's board.

So I am thinking, in theory, when LED Blinky turns on the single colour LED, it basically activates the ground wire (which in theory is a ground plane in the computer common to both USB connectors) and turns on the LED, such that when pressing the switch, that grounds the switch to send a signal to the encoder board.  And thus the switch will only work when the LED is turned on.  (For single colour (white) LEDs like these switches you use only one of the RGB pins at 100% intensity to turn on that LED.)

(You couldn't ground the switch's ground pin to the encoder's ground pin too as then all of the LEDs would "try" to light at the same time.

In my particular case I want to try this with these switches using in iPAC Ultimate I/O with is encoder and LED controller all in one so I am wondering if there is potential harm to use multiple LEDs ground wires to ground multiple switches at the same time?

[websherpa]

Found this diagram useful:

[Vocalitus]

Ground is ground.

There is another led button that has two cables.  One for voltage the other for traditional microswitches.

EGSTARTS has them on Amazon for $18 and works on 5v.  Can't link it sorry.

[websherpa]

Sorry, and I am JUST realizing that my Zero Delay Encoder and buttons "may" be a different version again.  Mine are like the diagram I posted above such that the button labelled "SJ@JX "B" has + marked at the Left pin, - marked at the far right pin, and the centre pin is connected only to the ground pin when the switch is pressed.  Thus the LEDs stay lit all the time with my version (they don't light when pressed), when using the original encoder board.

[websherpa]

EGSTARTS alternative switch: https://www.amazon.com/EG-Illuminated-Buttons-Machine-Raspberry/dp/B01N11BDX9?ref_=ast_sto_dp

These have four legs so you can send one set to the ZDEncoder board for the switch and one set to the Ipac LED controller board.  But then you would need a harness that supports this.

[websherpa]

If you are happy with the encoder and buttons you are currently using, you should be able to make it work with a pac-drive.  You could route the ground wire for the buttons/leds you want to control through the pac-drive.  This is assuming you have 16 or less leds you want to controll, otherwise go for the pac 64 or ultimate IO.

Since the button switch and led share the ground terminal, any button with the led turn off will not function until the led is turned back on.

Ok, so I finally received my pac 64 and I'm still stumped as to how to wire this up.

Right now I have standard 3 wire "ez buttons", two separate harness types, a pac64 LED board, and my encoder board (2 total, 1 for each player).

I read the attached threads, but they just confused me more.

1) Can I use the current wiring I have or do I need to create new harnesses?
2) Do I need another board or is the current generic encoder and PAC64 ok?

Going back to this original image, the alternative wiring harness you show is the one that should work (again in theory).   The "white" ones with connectors at both ends would need to be altered with new separate pin connectors to work.

But you would be essentially using that RYBl connector "upside down" to the way it was meant for a different type of switch. (Upside down in relation to which end normally gets plugged into the ZDEncoder / LED Controller boards.)  Before you can plug the loose connectors into the LED controller and ZD Encoder board you are going to have to figure out which colour wire connects to the switched LED 5+ and to the Common ground.

Plug the Red Yellow Black connector into the switch.  If the Red connects to the switches 5v+ for the LED (on my switch it's on the left if the switch is oriented with the connector at the bottom) and the Black goes to the switches common ground (on my switch it's on the right if the switch is oriented with the connector at the bottom) then in theory you could wire it like I describe here below (BUT I am thinking that you would need to actually reverse the connections of Red and Black at the LED Controller and ZDEncoder board in your case because the plug is now upside down).  Hopefully you can determine that, and if it's the case, then just change Black to Red  and Red to black below.  The Yellow middle wire remains the same.

Plug the Loose Black Ground wire only to the LED GND on the iPac board for the LED you want to control.
Plug the Loose Red LED 5+ wire to the LED + on the iPac Board for the LED you want to control (so I believe Red and black would be next to each other on the board, I am not as familiar with this particular board but I think it's not RGB is it (It is RGB, it just uses adjacent channels for each combo of RGB leds)?  And it doesn't use a daisy chain of any sort for the LEDs?)
Plug the Loose Yellow "Data" or Switch + Wire to the Encoder's middle pin for the switch controller you are using.

In "theory" and again I don't want to be the one to test it first... lol, you wouldn't need to connect the other Black Ground daisy chain wire (keeping in mind that if you likely have to reverse Red and Black wires)  to the ZDEncoder as doing so would negate the iPAC's ability to control the LEDs individually.

Clear as mud. Someone check my math.  Is this doable?  Confirming so would help me out too without risking my Ultimate I/O encoder board in an experiment!

[get_nick]

In an attempt to keep things simple, I tried to use the ground from the 3 wire harness and connect it directly to the PAC64. Through trial and error, I was able to figure out which wires would work if connected to the right PAC64 pins. I was able to get LEDBlinky to illuminate all 6 player 1 buttons and pass the configuration and tests. I was having issues with my ROMs while trying to test with Launchbox, so I'm reinstalling a smaller set of around 20 games. Then I'll test to see if they work. I was able to play After Burner II, none of the buttons initially lit up. I reconfigured the game controls for P1 and then buttons 1/2/3 illuminated and 4/5/6 were off. Assuming button 3 is part of After Burner controls, it was a minor win.

TL;DR, LEDblinky works with the loading flashes with audio output. Now to just get the buttons to illuminate for every game.

ps: I'm really surprised that more people haven't run into this issue. I would have thought that people bought buttons on Amazon or Ebay and wanted to run LEDblinky with them.

[websherpa]

In an attempt to keep things simple, I tried to use the ground from the 3 wire harness and connect it directly to the PAC64. Through trial and error, I was able to figure out which wires would work if connected to the right PAC64 pins. I was able to get LEDBlinky to illuminate all 6 player 1 buttons and pass the configuration and tests. I was having issues with my ROMs while trying to test with Launchbox, so I'm reinstalling a smaller set of around 20 games. Then I'll test to see if they work. I was able to play After Burner II, none of the buttons initially lit up. I reconfigured the game controls for P1 and then buttons 1/2/3 illuminated and 4/5/6 were off. Assuming button 3 is part of After Burner controls, it was a minor win.

TL;DR, LEDblinky works with the loading flashes with audio output. Now to just get the buttons to illuminate for every game.

ps: I'm really surprised that more people haven't run into this issue. I would have thought that people bought buttons on Amazon or Ebay and wanted to run LEDblinky with them.

Good on you!  I am thinking people generally buy those buttons/ ZDEncoders for basic RetroPi setups and don't go the extra LEDBlinky step since those cheaper encoders don't support it.  And generally speaking getting the more expensive four connector buttons makes people's life less stressful.

Me on the other hand I have an old X-Arcade Tankstick that I wanted to update with LEDBlinky and LED buttons because I was frustrated trying to figure out which controls for which games AND I cheaped out to try the cheaper Amazon buttons as a test and pretty much got in a trap requiring a modded wiring setup (which I haven't started yet). (I may yet throw more money after better LED buttons and move these on to another non-LEDBlinky arcade build).

As far as setup goes though, for individual games beyond your testing there is a database program called RocketBlinky that is promoted as a third party add on that reportedly generates the necessary controls for each game you have installed: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=150224.0. Not sure if you're already using that.

[get_nick]

I started with a Raspberry Pi4, but then figured, "---fudgesicle--- it, i might as well build it right. i'm already into it $300, what's another $200 for a Dell Optiplex 790 and a PACLED?" lol

So LEDblinky is working. I can select a game, the lights flash, the speak function verbally states what each button does (ex. Bubble Bobble "Bubble" *flash P1B1* "Jump" *flash P1B2*).

Now the fuckery begins. My ROMs aren't playable. They'll launch, illuminate the LED buttons, but then a whole list of errors pops up "a78-17.32 not found. (tried in bublbobl)" . 

Time to troubleshoot Launchbox/BigBox ROMs. (FWIW, everything worked fine before messing with the PAC64. It was just too confusing for guests to play games and know which buttons to use.)

Here's my Arcade1Up cabinet as it stands now. Probably about 85% done. Need to finish the colored side art, swap marquee images with high res, and repaint the monitor and marquee bezels.

[websherpa]

Nice!  I wonder why the ROM addressing messed up, might just be a setting here or there.  Are you able to back up on the software installs to go back to before LED Blinky and have it working?

After build a bunch of Hyperspin, one BigBox and forgetting just about everything I learned, I am starting to appreciate the clean (and curated) experience of CoinOps.  Only problem is that I'm waiting with bated breath for LEDBlinky integration in this RA2 edition that is being worked on (although in theory it should work in MAME regardless).

[PL1]

My ROMs aren't playable. They'll launch, illuminate the LED buttons, but then a whole list of errors pops up "a78-17.32 not found. (tried in bublbobl)" . 

Time to troubleshoot Launchbox/BigBox ROMs. (FWIW, everything worked fine before messing with the PAC64.

Everything worked before, so the problem's not the actual ROMs unless you accidently deleted them.

Sounds like the ROM path isn't set correctly in your front end.


Scott
EDIT: On second thought, I think LEDBlinky can also write to mame.ini so check the path there, too.

[BlueGhost]

Glad to see you got the led wiring figured out.  Hopefully the rom issue are a simple setting somewhere.  Stuff like that usually is, the hard part is finding what to change/reset/update.