What control buttons do I really need?

[Tlos]

I'm new. First post and I'm going to go bald pulling my hair out. So I finally joined hoping for some help.

What buttons do I need on my control panel? I've seen so many options which is a blessing and a curse. I'm building my PC arcade with a Dell Optiplex 9010 Windows 10. I have the Hyperspin-system external hard drive. I plan on doing 4 joy sticks, 2 with 6 buttons and 2 with 4 buttons, a track ball and then I've purchased 4 buttons (1 for each joystick) as a start button. I also have a coin mechanism which I plan on using quarters to start my arcade.

So what other buttons am I missing? I've seen "ESC", "Select" "Enter" and all sorts of other buttons that I'm guessing are going to make navigating around on a PC emulator easier.

And, is there a schematic, control panel dimensions, button layout for something like this?

Thank you for everyone's help.

[PL1]

What buttons do I need on my control panel? I've seen so many options which is a blessing and a curse. I'm building my PC arcade with a Dell Optiplex 9010 Windows 10. I have the Hyperspin-system external hard drive. I plan on doing 4 joy sticks, 2 with 6 buttons and 2 with 4 buttons, a track ball and then I've purchased 4 buttons (1 for each joystick) as a start button. I also have a coin mechanism which I plan on using quarters to start my arcade.

So what other buttons am I missing? I've seen "ESC", "Select" "Enter" and all sorts of other buttons that I'm guessing are going to make navigating around on a PC emulator easier.

There's no one-size-fits-all answer to these questions because they depend on personal preferences.
- Some people like dedicated admin buttons.  Some like "shifted functions".
- Some use P1B1 in place of "Select"/"Enter".
- There are lots of examples in Project Announcements.  Look around and take notes on which ones make sense to you.

The wiki FAQ has some related info here with pros and cons to different approaches.
http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/FAQ#Number_of_admin_buttons

How many slots for your coin mech(s)?  1?  2?  4?
- Many 4-player games assign credits/lives based on which slot the coin is inserted into. i.e. Inserting a coin in the P3 slot sends a "7" keystroke and adds life to P3.
- If you aren't going to have 4 separate coin slots, you can either use coin buttons or "shifted functions" or there are 2-player versions of the games if you come to the conclusion that you, like most people, really don't need a 4-player panel.

And, is there a schematic, control panel dimensions, button layout for something like this?

Once again, there are no one-size-fits-all answers to these, but Slagcoin has some handy layouts that will help you decide which button layout you prefer.
https://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/layout.html

Cardboard/hardboard mockups are your friend and so is the "What type of build meets my needs?" design process.   


Scott

[BadMouth]

I prefer to keep things to a minimum, but don't like combo presses that guests would have to learn.

In addition to what you already have, I would add exit(ESC) and pause.  I don't have a pause button, but sometimes wish I did.

"Enter" or "select" isn't necessary, as it is intuitive to use P1 button 1 for this purpose since you are using that joystick to navigate the menu.

My current cab also has two dedicated buttons to switch gamelists.  The player 2 joystick could be used for this purpose.  On my cab, their main purpose is no longer needed while in game so I mapped them as extra coin inputs.  The novelty of using quarters wore off pretty quick and I only ever use the buttons now.  I still like having the coin door for aesthetics.

On button layouts:
I went with a curved layout using convex buttons because I wanted it to look modern and the curved layout looked more comfortable.  On games with more than 3 buttons, I find myself looking down at my hands to reset them more often because there is nothing for my mind to reference where my fingers are on the button surface.  If I had it to do over again, I'd use old school concave buttons in the "straight six" street fighter layout.  I might space them closer than street fighter though.

[Tlos]

I have a 2 coin mechanism set up. I grew up in an arcade and managed one as a kid for a few years. There’s some thing about hearing the quarters fall. Plus my plan is to have my kids earn quarters for chores to earn playing time on it. Then I get my quarters back.

Bad Mouth
You have an image that shows the right and correct way to place joysticks. Is that preference? I’ve debated on angling P3 and P4.

PL1
Thank you for the links!
With the 2 coin slots, wouldn’t you drop a quarter in and be able to select which player you want to be? Is that possible?

[PL1]

Is that preference? I’ve debated on angling P3 and P4.

Almost all of the original dedicated 4-player cabs had non-angled sticks.
- The very few that did have angled sticks were not popular or well-received.
- That said, some people claim to prefer angled sticks.   
- IIRC several people have re-done their control panel to change from angled to non-angled sticks for P3 and P4.
- I don't remember anyone re-doing their control panel to change from non-angled to angled sticks for P3 and P4.

There's more info in the FAQ.  You have read the whole FAQ, right?   
http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/FAQ#Orientation

With the 2 coin slots, wouldn’t you drop a quarter in and be able to select which player you want to be? Is that possible?

You can select which player you want to be in the 2-player versions of the 4-player games. (tmnt2po, simpsons2p, etc.)

In the 4-player versions of the games your character is determined by the coin slot/player position. (tmnt, simpsons, etc.)
- For example, in The Simpsons P1 = Marge, P2 = Homer, P3 = Bart, and P4 = Lisa.



You can remap the controls for the 4-player games to match the order that they appear on the screen.  Note that Marge's life bar is on the far left where P3 usually stands.
- Map P3 controls to P1 game inputs. (Marge)
- Map P1 controls to P2 game inputs. (Homer)
- Map P2 controls to P3 game inputs. (Bart)
- P4 controls should be fine. (Lisa)



Scott

[BadMouth]

Bad Mouth
You have an image that shows the right and correct way to place joysticks. Is that preference? I’ve debated on angling P3 and P4.

It's the proper way, but the internet is filled with pictures of it done the wrong way.  Mostly from people who discovered a hyperspin torrent and decided to make a commercial business making impressive looking cabs with giant screens and light up buttons while not having any idea how to actually configure individual games to work properly.  There are also the younger DIYers without classic arcade experience who just assumed they should be angled since the player is angled.  One copies another's tutorial when making their own tutorial and then the mistake becomes the standard.

The latter like to argue over it, thinking it's a religious belief of forum regulars rather than a piece of knowledge gained through practical experience.  Some of the old curmudgeons on here actually built their first four player panel with angled sticks and later changed it when they noticed players 3 and 4 becoming bored with games quicker than player 1 and 2.  The owner of this forum even published a book back in the day showing the sticks angled.

Just build a test panel and try it both ways.   Then dowhatchulike.

[KenToad]

I have a 4 player panel with 4 admin buttons, Exit, Save state, Load state, Pause. I use them all regularly. I actually wish that I had a fast forward button or a convenient rewind button, as fast forward is good for games with long boot times and rewind has been my preferred way to learn to play the super difficult shooters like Pulstar or Gradius.

At this point, I'm the only one who plays arcade games regularly on my control panel. If you expect to have kids or slap happy adults, then expect to need to either hide your admin keys out of sight or protect them from being acccidentally triggered by locking them behind an impossible to accidentally hit button combo.

[javeryh]

I’ve debated on angling P3 and P4.

Don't do it or at least make a test panel out of scrap material first.  When you press -> you want your character to move ->.  If you angle the sticks you will be pressing in a different direction relative to the character on the screen and it makes everything so much more frustrating to the point where people will never want to play as P3 or P4 due to a built-in disadvantage.

[ericball]

I'm a big proponent of prototyping and I follow a "think & test first, spend second" mantra.

Start first with the controls each player needs to play the games.  Next you need coin & start buttons, which can either be dedicated or through a shift button.  Then you need some way to exit the game (again, either a dedicated button or through a shift button).  After that it's up to you, although I'd recommend using shift buttons or button combinations rather than adding more dedicated buttons.  Then configure the front end to use those controls & buttons in a logical manner.

For my RetroPie vertical bartop I have an 8 way joystick with 4 buttons (2 on each side of the joystick) along with player 1, 2 & coin buttons on the lower front of the CP.  P2 is a shift button in Libretro with P2+P1 for exit, P2+coin for mute, P2+joystick up/down for volume up/down.  The games I have configured didn't have dedicated P1/P2 coin slots so I only need a single coin button.  (For many games it's possible to configure P2 as coin, so press P2 once to add a coin & P2 twice for a 2 player game - but this doesn't work for all games.)

[Howard_Casto]

^This guy gets it^

You don't need ANY admin buttons really.   Ultimarc and GroovyGameGear encoders support shifted functions.   You'll need to have shifted modes for Escape and Tab and that's about it.   Anything more involved is going to require that you pull out a keyboard anyway.  Some people like to make Escape a dedicated button so that it isn't accidentally pressed during gameplay but it isn't 100% necessary.  To this day I don't have a clue why people put a line of admin buttons on a mame cab... if the real arcade cabinet doesn't need it then you don't either.

[KenToad]

You need admin buttons mainly for the same reason that multi-game cabs like the Neo Geo needed them.

I try to limit shifted functions. They're cumbersome to remember or explain. I barely use them, but I still hit the wrong button combo sometimes.

Some well-placed, self-explanatory admin buttons are perfect for a Mame machine. How many buttons, placement, and what admin functions are definitely down to personal need and preference.

[Malenko]

The only "admin" button I use is a hidden exit button. I used to have hold P1 start + press P2 Start to exit a game, but in a hectic game of Sengoku 3 my buddy and I hit start at almost the same time and exited the game.

I have coin buttons next to the start buttons, but that's it for the panel. Do yourself a favor and ignore wall of text / picture replies.

[RandyT]

I use both Admin buttons and Shifted combos. 

I would recommend a dedicated Shift button for doing the combos, and dedicated Pause buttons.  You don't want to fiddle with combos when pausing or restarting a game, because it can mean screwing up your current game when a you need to take a break.  I'd also be careful with a non-shifted Escape button.  Wherever you put that one, burn it into memory so you don't hit it by accident.

Anything beyond that is preference and some very small labels printed on your overlay for the shifted functions can help.  But try to avoid putting a full keyboard on your panel made out of arcade buttons

[javeryh]

The only "admin" button I use is a hidden exit button. I used to have hold P1 start + press P2 Start to exit a game, but in a hectic game of Sengoku 3 my buddy and I hit start at almost the same time and exited the game.

I am also very light on admin buttons.  I have Exit and Pause mapped to one button (press to Pause and hold for 3 seconds to Exit so you never exit by mistake) and P1 and P2 start.  Coins are wired to the coin door plus the coin returns if you don't want to use quarters (so not on the CP).  The less clutter the better, IMO.

[Vocalitus]

Have all your games that you play on a regular basis on free play.  Add your admin buttons out of sight and you can use the small sub mini momentary buttons that can be hidden quite easily.  I use one to power the PC/Pi.

Gaming wise, it depends on the genre.  I tend to have just the joy and fire buttons for vertical games as I think shields are for kids, but I do have ABXY dotted around the control panel if the game warrants it to add complexity.

I like to mix it up a bit on horizontal games I play so it will depend on what games you intend to play on your cab. 

Typical rule would be a seven button with joy, and a shift able encoder like a KADE variant. 

I would recommend getting a GRS spinner instead the player 2 button.

[Osirus23]

.

[Vocalitus]

No admin buttons. The Ultimarc shift functions do everything I need to. I've never used a pause button, either. Been using MAME since the 90s and I couldn't even tell you which key is Pause. Real arcade games didn't have pause, so it has no place on mine either.

P = Pause.

Now add the button. 

We all need a pause button.

[javeryh]

No admin buttons. The Ultimarc shift functions do everything I need to. I've never used a pause button, either. Been using MAME since the 90s and I couldn't even tell you which key is Pause. Real arcade games didn't have pause, so it has no place on mine either.

P = Pause.

Now add the button. 

We all need a pause button.

LOL yeah - I can barely get through a game without needing to pause due to one of my wiener kids needing something at that exact moment.

[Howard_Casto]

No admin buttons. The Ultimarc shift functions do everything I need to. I've never used a pause button, either. Been using MAME since the 90s and I couldn't even tell you which key is Pause. Real arcade games didn't have pause, so it has no place on mine either.

^This^

[Roboman]

No admin buttons. The Ultimarc shift functions do everything I need to. I've never used a pause button, either. Been using MAME since the 90s and I couldn't even tell you which key is Pause. Real arcade games didn't have pause, so it has no place on mine either.

Yes, but arcade machines weren't in people's homes, they were in commercial premises.
It's a completely different environment.
Pause is very handy for instance if the doorbell goes or you need a piss ;-0

[Howard_Casto]

Well then you aren't replicating the arcade experience now are you?   Doorbell rings they can go away because it's game-o-clock.   If you've gotta pee, well that's what the bottle of dr-pepper is for.

[Mike A]

Your high score doesn't count if you hit pause.

[RandyT]

Your high score doesn't count if you hit pause.

If you are playing on a machine which allows for that function, it doesn't anyway.

Well then you aren't replicating the arcade experience now are you?

Do you have underpants gnomes collecting all of those quarters or something?   

[Vocalitus]

Well then you aren't replicating the arcade experience now are you?   

Yeah, replicating the arcade experience.... I am missing the jocks punching me in the stomach and throwing me off my game as I have been playing it for 20 minutes.

I'm sure the other half can oblige.

[Howard_Casto]

lol was your arcade of choice in Compton or something?

[Vocalitus]

lol was your arcade of choice in Compton or something?

Close guess. Cerritos CA. The Sega Center at the Cerritos Mall. It was called Timeout Arcade after that.

[ericball]

This thread gave me the idea of replacing the RetroPie splash screen (which is shown at boot up) with a how-to for the control buttons:

[romshark]

My cabinets only have a "pause" admin button outside the coin box (the the side of the control panel on my big cabinet, and on the back of my TMNT half-size cab), and this doubles as my "shift" key.

I do have a few buttons [ESC (quit), TAB (config), and reset (F3)] behind the coin door. Keeping the coin door locked will keep guests from getting to them.

I'm surprised nobody brought up the Service (9) and Test (F2) buttons. These are buttons found behind the coin door in some real arcade machines, so you might want to put them in your cabinet. Or at least have them mapped to shift keys.