2021: The year of no new innovation?

[leapinlew]

The original "2018: the year of no new innovation" thread is posted here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,156713.msg1646432. It seems it's locked, or I can't reply to it. If anyone re-reads it - apologies if I sound like a jerk.

2017, I hadn't built any cabs, but this year I've modded a couple Arcade1ups to sell, see the images below. All said and done, the 3 cabinets made $400 in profit. I got the arcade1up's for a good price, so I wanted to see what the market was like. Posted some pics - nothing ground breaking here except that within 4 hours I had a arcade1up cabinet converted to a 60-n-1.

Anyone have any predictions on what 2021 will bring? I was quite the pessimist in 2018, so I'll try to have a more rosey outlook for this next year. Realizing we are nearly halfway through the year, I'm hopeful that the remainder of 2021 see's the release and of the Sinden lightgun (in stock and readily available). This has me hopeful that once and for all, adding a light gun isn't a major side project. In fact, I'd love a ready to go Raspberry Pi image. I'd be very interested in that. I think the Virtual Pinball market is getting saturated with Virtual Pinball options from the lowest end available for $500ish to the high end. To me, the virtual pinball market is interesting because they are basically creating a market. I don't think virtual pinball is a good substitute for the real thing, but people seem to enjoy it and are willing to put it in their gamerooms as a compliment to retro arcades.

Other than that - Star Wars yokes are easy to come by with a variety of options. Anyone still holding out hope for a viable Vector monitor alternative?

[Mike A]

There is tons of innovation in vector monitors.

Arroyo can chime in here on that.

There is no real need for substitutes. It is really impressive stuff.

There are new multigame kits for real PCBs coming out all of the time.

[javeryh]

What kind of innovation are we talking about?  New products or new arcade designs?  If it is the latter, Ond is building a really nice looking cocktail cabinet that is an original design.  I do see where you are coming from though - there's only so much you can do in this hobby and if someone has thought of it, then someone has tried to build it. 

[leapinlew]

My original thread was more of a question about the barriers were left in the hobby. It degenerated into people defending their hobby. That wasn't my intent. Since we are in a hobby that is replicating a 30+ year old fad, it seems we would eventually find a time when we no longer have any major hurdles.

Many of us have similar stories about discovering Mame and marveling about being able to play many arcade games on a single cabinet. When I started Ipacs were becoming main stream and you'd still see a few folks still hacking keyboards. Trackballs and spinners were still expensive. Front ends were complex and rudimentary. Over the years, all those barriers have not only been conquered, but commoditized. Today, we have commercial retailers in the retro space. I'm waiting on light guns, but after that, I've pretty much got everything I need and happy to be playing my machines.

[javeryh]

I would like to see a cheap single board solution that runs a basic, yet customizable front-end and the latest version of MAME.  No reason to have to use a PC with Windows anymore. 

[yotsuya]

I would like to see a cheap single board solution that runs a basic, yet customizable front-end and the latest version of MAME.  No reason to have to use a PC with Windows anymore.

I don’t think that’s going to happen. Most non-MAMErs are happy with the ArPiCade setups and Bitkits, so I don’t foresee anyone going that route to  develop something.


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[javeryh]

I would like to see a cheap single board solution that runs a basic, yet customizable front-end and the latest version of MAME.  No reason to have to use a PC with Windows anymore.

I don’t think that’s going to happen. Most non-MAMErs are happy with the ArPiCade setups and Bitkits, so I don’t foresee anyone going that route to  develop something.


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bbegin is working on it over in the Raspberry pi forum.  Ond is also going to mess around his image and making something too.  Last I looked the ArPiCade and BitKit had some limitations as far as game selection goes but those are great solutions too.

[Ond]

I got all excited about the virtual pinball trend for a while but the more I thought about it the less excited I got.  Maybe because the closer vpins get to simulating a real pinball experience the more you probably miss the real thing. 

Zebidee's GreenAntz transcoder may not be new for 2021 but it is shaping up as a completed product this year. Good VGA to Component transcoder's are rare (or I'm looking in the wrong places).

In general innovation going forward will most likely continue to be around Raspberry Pi tech or very small form factor computing.  Pi is right on the edge of being genuinely usable for arcade emulation.  The flow on into emulation from  Pi development is just a 'side effect' of that technology.  Pi isn't going away any time soon so you can expect further innovation in front end applications as well as emulation engines like RetroArch.

[Arroyo]

Anyone still holding out hope for a viable Vector monitor alternative?

I posted this on another thread where someone asked about the state of vector monitors.  While these technically came out last year or even earlier, it is now possible to build your own legit color vector monitor, and to play games from MAME on them:

1.) Build your own vector monitor: (reproduction Amplifone deflector board and HV cage) with a standard 90 degree CRT tube (read TV). https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=439426
2.) Own FPGA reproduction of original Vector PCB's (cinematronics/Taito/Midway/Atari) through efforts of folks on KLOV. https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=438283 AND https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=430077
3.) Lastly there are efforts to create a USB DVG (USB Pluggable Digital Vector Generator) that will allow you to send Vector based graphics from your MAME PC...AND there is an effort to create the same thing but for the MiSTer project.   https://www.facebook.com/groups/Vectrex.XY.and.Vector.monitors.The.Technical.Side/?fref=nf  (May need to get accepted to the group first).  (THIS WAS RELEASED LAST YEAR).

The last point will allow you to play Vector games on a vector display with a MAME PC rig.  The last will allow you to play the MiSTer FPGA games through a vector display.

All that is to say that the state of Vector games couldn't be more exciting.  A little patience and effort and you could have a very close to original reproduction in your house.

[pbj]

Whines about no innovation, and projects consist solely of slapping 16 year old PCB into Walmart pressboard cabinet.  What happened to you, Lew?

Arroyo - what’s the ballpark cost on a DIY vector monitor?  Assuming you get the TV free.

[Arroyo]

Arroyo - what’s the ballpark cost on a DIY vector monitor?  Assuming you get the TV free.

I think he is selling them for around $350.  Much cheaper than an old one and you get yourself a burn free tube much easier.

[bobbyb13]

Anyone still holding out hope for a viable Vector monitor alternative?

I posted this on another thread where someone asked about the state of vector monitors.  While these technically came out last year or even earlier, it is now possible to build your own legit color vector monitor, and to play games from MAME on them:

1.) Build your own vector monitor: (reproduction Amplifone deflector board and HV cage) with a standard 90 degree CRT tube (read TV). https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=439426
2.) Own FPGA reproduction of original Vector PCB's (cinematronics/Taito/Midway/Atari) through efforts of folks on KLOV. https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=438283 AND https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=430077
3.) Lastly there are efforts to create a USB DVG (USB Pluggable Digital Vector Generator) that will allow you to send Vector based graphics from your MAME PC...AND there is an effort to create the same thing but for the MiSTer project.   https://www.facebook.com/groups/Vectrex.XY.and.Vector.monitors.The.Technical.Side/?fref=nf  (May need to get accepted to the group first).  (THIS WAS RELEASED LAST YEAR).

The last point will allow you to play Vector games on a vector display with a MAME PC rig.  The last will allow you to play the MiSTer FPGA games through a vector display.

All that is to say that the state of Vector games couldn't be more exciting.  A little patience and effort and you could have a very close to original reproduction in your house.

The vector monitor situation is pretty impressive.

I have a usb-dvg board from Fred K heading my way soon I hope and I'm in line for a HV/deflection board kit from Barry S too, so maybe soon I'll be rewinding a yoke and letting everybody know how it goes.

Arroyo - what’s the ballpark cost on a DIY vector monitor?  Assuming you get the TV free.

I think he is selling them for around $350.  Much cheaper than an old one and you get yourself a burn free tube much easier.

If you have a 19 or 25 tube, a spool of magnet wire and a mame pc setup already it's $700 total for the new parts.
The video card and monitor chassis part kit are $350 each.

You can only find those guys through facebook apparently.

[Titchgamer]

2021 is the year of the lightgun.

Between the Sinden and JB's IR gun lightgun gaming is steaming back to life atm

[leapinlew]

Whines about no innovation, and projects consist solely of slapping 16 year old PCB into Walmart pressboard cabinet.  What happened to you, Lew?

Not sure what part you thought was whining in my post, but that wasn't my intent. This particular project was all about side hustle. I resold them to try to make some extra arcade cash. I did find it pretty remarkable how far we've come with arcade machines. This project was pretty painless and for a few hundred bucks and a few hours, I was running a 60-n-1 in a decent enough form factor. I may do a few more and order some Sinden guns. That's the only hole in my home machines.  I don't have any machine left to build.

[Howard_Casto]

I would like to see a cheap single board solution that runs a basic, yet customizable front-end and the latest version of MAME.  No reason to have to use a PC with Windows anymore.

Oh there absolutely is... namely the pc is the easiest platform to program for so hobbyist programmers write all their stuff, be it emulators or support software on the pc.   Also there's raw horsepower.... a single board pc can't run anything past the mid 90's. 

 

[Phreakwars]

I would like to see a cheap single board solution that runs a basic, yet customizable front-end and the latest version of MAME.  No reason to have to use a PC with Windows anymore.

Wait a minute.. What do you call this? An SBC??

I'm working on a couple arcade projects with them.

I discuss them on my YouTube channel as it pertains to putting one in a A1U countercade, which I will be doing a video on later in the month. Why whine about Windows? Is it trendy to do so?

[meyer980]

I'm impressed with the state of both FPGA things (like BitKit and MisTER projects) and also Raspberry Pi development (the RPi4 stuff Jav mentioned running newest MAME).

I have some oddball stuff I'd love to see:
1. Multi-monitor support from non-pc devices. MAME can do some really kickbutt multi-monitor stuff. It's possible some of this translates to the RPi version but I haven't tested. I think it'd be cool if some of the FPGA solutions tackled multi-monitor so something like the dual playchoice ten, punchout, X-Men, some racers) could be drop in solutions.

2. 4x3 high-resolution LCDs. A lot of progress has been with LCD technology, they look better and faster than ever, and high resolution options are better at replicating that CRT look. BUT they're all still widescreen. So, you either have to account for that extra space you might not want/need or use an older LCD that's not as good but is the right aspect ratio and fits.

[Mike A]

So, you either have to account for that extra space you might not want/need or use an older LCD that's not as good but is the right aspect ratio and fits.

You could always just use a CRT. They are the right shape already.

[meyer980]

So, you either have to account for that extra space you might not want/need or use an older LCD that's not as good but is the right aspect ratio and fits.

You could always just use a CRT. They are the right shape already.

Well of course! And I agree that they're preferred. But I think you'd also agree that CRTs aren't exactly something you can just buy new in box anymore. They're still out there but it is sort of a barrier to entry I think.

[Mike A]

It is only a barrier to entry because people are intimidated.

I have 24 arcade machines. Every one of them has a CRT.

In the 6 years I have been doing this I have not had any CRTs fail. Granted it is not a huge time span, but it is a decent sample size.

When one does fail eventually, I will either fix it myself or send the chassis off to be fixed.

You don't have to buy them new because they last for decades and they are very serviceable.

[meyer980]

That's all true and although I haven't serviced as many as you, I am familiar with working on them. But while not the majority, there are some exceptions. For example, every time a neck cracks, that's just "one less tube" out in the world that can't be fixed. I get it, swap the tube and move on. But since they're not being reproduced, in the LONG term it becomes a problem.

The other exception is oddball monitors. I'm restoring a Nintendo Red Tent right now, it uses a very specific size (Sharp 18" XM-1801). Hard to find, expensive to replace compared to others. I had one good one and one with a cracked neck. After researching, found there aren't really any donor tubes compatible and because of the specific cabinet shape and crampness it's the only CRT that properly fits in there (19" too big, 17" too small). You know what does easily fit? A 19" 4x3 LCD.

Luckily, I didn't have to go that route, I spent a pretty penny and drove 6 hours to get a spare from someone on KLOV. I also understand the irony of my story, I'm complaining CRTs are harder to find or use and yet I was able to find/use one! c'est la vie

[Mike A]

Thumbs up for you for spending the time and the money to restore that cab correctly.

[bobbyb13]

Kinda makes one wonder that if Corning hasn't tossed all the tooling to make the things, what the minimum order for a batch of crt tubes would be to make it worth a run of them.

Just dreaming...

[Zebidee]

Kinda makes one wonder that if Corning hasn't tossed all the tooling to make the things, what the minimum order for a batch of crt tubes would be to make it worth a run of them.

Just dreaming...

Unfortunately the answer is "more than it would be worth".

Cost of retooling factories to produce CRTs would be quite high, especially at this late hour. Then the question would be: What CRTs do they produce? Which, of the many types people want, would be in most demand? Where would the expertise come from, now that all the old techs have either retrained for other jobs or retired or died? Who would make the supporting electronics? Who will buy this expensive new (but old) CRT stuff when LCDs and OLEDs are getting better and better all the time? Who's going to be left "holding the baby" with all this investment?

For a long time we only got new CRTs because all the large capital investments in the factories had already been made years ago, sunk costs. So the factories just kept churning out CRTs because the marginal cost (for 1 extra unit) was still low. But once you talk about retooling factories to make CRTs, it is a different cost equation altogether.

If you pull apart a few early 2000's European TV you'll see what I mean. Almost all the different brands have the same Philips tubes in them (with bonded yokes, set and glued down in factory, user can't adjust) . Because Philips was the last Euro manufacturer to finally shut down their last CRT tube manufacturing facility.

Innovation? Eventually OLEDs will be both good and cheap enough that we won't mind not having CRTs so much 

[bobbyb13]

Oh, so true Zebidee...

And then of course doesn't the GreenAntz count as real innovation?!
Although that actually began last year really, hunh?

I only finally got to use mine in 2021
 

[KenToad]

The Mister project is the driver behind the truly innovative work: the effort to analyze and trace physical circuits on microchips. This work has been ongoing for a while, though, and it should be a while longer before we see the full ramifications of flawless FPGA hardware simulation. The link below has a really neat animation of a laser decapping a chip, if you haven't seen it yet.

https://www.retrorgb.com/furrtek-demonstrates-decapping-process.html

[opt2not]

2021: 
1. The year of the MiSter.

2. The year of more ---smurfy--- Arcade 1up de-converts, mods, etc.  Thanks Lew.

[leapinlew]

lol - I think my "Hey, I haven't done anything except these Arcade1up mods" got cross pollinated with my "2021: The year of no new innovation" thoughts. Probably because I put it all in the same post.

1st point: I haven't done crap with arcades in a few years except mod some A1up's. I did think it was pretty cool that for the cost of an old school Trackball, I built a whole 60-n-1 which made me realize how far we've come
2ns point: What's everyone's thoughts about what's coming down the pipe?

You forgot the Sinden lightguns. I'm a light gun fan and they give me hope. I checked on them recently but they aren't readily available and currently impacted by supply chain issues.

[Zebidee]

Oh, so true Zebidee...

And then of course doesn't the GreenAntz count as real innovation?!
Although that actually began last year really, hunh?

I only finally got to use mine in 2021
 

GreenAntz actually began sometime early 2018, though the ideas had been floating around in my head long before that.

Innovation is still progressing in that space for 2021. There are smaller, boxed, SMD versions to develop. There may also be kit versions available if it can be simplified enough.

Specifically thinking of people like you here Bobby - there is more work to be done to make it easier to use GreenAntz directly in arcade cabs and with game PCBs. This is an awkward space to provide guarantees for as every PCB is different. Managing the RGB inputs is easy enough, but managing non-standardised sync input levels is not. I have some ideas, but of course more testing required.

The solution might be a version of GreenAntz designed specifically for use with arcade PCBs, "no soldering required". Standard arcade monitor video input connector, alternative screw terminals for non-standard video and power inputs, onboard pots for tweaking RGB input levels and adjusting circuit sync operating voltages ("sync pot"). Now I've actually put it into words, I think that is the solution.

On FPGA, I think it is the next big thing in arcade and console emulation. There are already many advantages over PC or Pi-based emulation, or a 60-in-one PCB. A MiSTer unit, for example, is like getting a whole bunch of consoles and historic computer systems in one little box. Imagine how convenient that is, no need to dig out your old consoles, no need for video/audio signal switches to manage a dozen different input devices, no need for original game media. The level of accuracy is very high. For the moment upgrades use the same hardware, which is great. Of course FPGA will never replace other kinds of emulation completely, but I think it is a great thing to have in your living room or in a cab.

[dmckean]

I'm surprised no one has brought up Jaybee's awesome GUN4IR and GUN2CRT projects in this thread. Lots of innovation there.

[Zebidee]

I'm surprised no one has brought up Jaybee's awesome GUN4IR and GUN2CRT projects in this thread. Lots of innovation there.

JayBee's work does deserve more time in the spotlight. Lightguns were noted above, but more was said about Sinden. 

[Mike A]

You guys take all of the fun out of classic gaming. 

I like plugging my consoles into the back of my CRT television.

I like digging through the cartridges and using the overlays for my Intellivision controllers.

I don't want my whole childhood condensed into one little box.

[KenToad]

The crazy thing about 2021, besides the pandemic, is that there's a whole new console generation that seems like it will never be released in a way that prevents scalping. Also, that new console generation has no killer app or true innovation.

The new Xbox is so lacking innovation that I don't think the average person could tell the difference between the one that released in 2013 vs. the one that released in 2020.

Maybe the PS5 and the Xbox (2020) will be collectors' items as the lost generation of consoles?

[javeryh]

The crazy thing about 2021, besides the pandemic, is that there's a whole new console generation that seems like it will never be released in a way that prevents scalping. Also, that new console generation has no killer app or true innovation.

The new Xbox is so lacking innovation that I don't think the average person could tell the difference between the one that released in 2013 vs. the one that released in 2020.

Maybe the PS5 and the Xbox (2020) will be collectors' items as the lost generation of consoles?

The more time that passes, the more I realize I don’t need a PS5 or Xbox Series X.  It feels like I’m not missing out on anything at all.  Plus, there are so many great games out there for other consoles and never enough time to play everything.  I do t think I’d ever run out of stuff if no one ever made a new game again.


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[KenToad]

The crazy thing about 2021, besides the pandemic, is that there's a whole new console generation that seems like it will never be released in a way that prevents scalping. Also, that new console generation has no killer app or true innovation.

The new Xbox is so lacking innovation that I don't think the average person could tell the difference between the one that released in 2013 vs. the one that released in 2020.

Maybe the PS5 and the Xbox (2020) will be collectors' items as the lost generation of consoles?

The more time that passes, the more I realize I don’t need a PS5 or Xbox Series X.  It feels like I’m not missing out on anything at all.  Plus, there are so many great games out there for other consoles and never enough time to play everything.  I do t think I’d ever run out of stuff if no one ever made a new game again.


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I feel the same. New consoles rely on rapid hardware distribution to get going. I'll be surprised if this generation ever gets widely adopted. The scalpers nailed the door on any momentum or FOMO there might have been. The PS5 is old news and hardly anyone has one.

[javeryh]

The crazy thing about 2021, besides the pandemic, is that there's a whole new console generation that seems like it will never be released in a way that prevents scalping. Also, that new console generation has no killer app or true innovation.

The new Xbox is so lacking innovation that I don't think the average person could tell the difference between the one that released in 2013 vs. the one that released in 2020.

Maybe the PS5 and the Xbox (2020) will be collectors' items as the lost generation of consoles?

The more time that passes, the more I realize I don’t need a PS5 or Xbox Series X.  It feels like I’m not missing out on anything at all.  Plus, there are so many great games out there for other consoles and never enough time to play everything.  I do t think I’d ever run out of stuff if no one ever made a new game again.


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I feel the same. New consoles rely on rapid hardware distribution to get going. I'll be surprised if this generation ever gets widely adopted. The scalpers nailed the door on any momentum or FOMO there might have been. The PS5 is old news and hardly anyone has one.

Honestly, I'm just waiting to see what Nintendo does next.

[leapinlew]

The crazy thing about 2021, besides the pandemic, is that there's a whole new console generation that seems like it will never be released in a way that prevents scalping. Also, that new console generation has no killer app or true innovation.

The new Xbox is so lacking innovation that I don't think the average person could tell the difference between the one that released in 2013 vs. the one that released in 2020.

Maybe the PS5 and the Xbox (2020) will be collectors' items as the lost generation of consoles?

The more time that passes, the more I realize I don’t need a PS5 or Xbox Series X.  It feels like I’m not missing out on anything at all.  Plus, there are so many great games out there for other consoles and never enough time to play everything.  I do t think I’d ever run out of stuff if no one ever made a new game again.


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I feel the same. New consoles rely on rapid hardware distribution to get going. I'll be surprised if this generation ever gets widely adopted. The scalpers nailed the door on any momentum or FOMO there might have been. The PS5 is old news and hardly anyone has one.

Honestly, I'm just waiting to see what Nintendo does next.

Yes! I went back in time and have been playing the Wii Catalog and Wii-U stuff. Loved all the Mario games, Donkey Kong Country, Zeldas, and Pikmin3. No switch yet.

[javeryh]

Not sure where to ask this but I was looking at single board solutions and came across the ArPiCade and had a question.  Do you need the Raspberry JAMMA harness to make this work or will a keyboard encoder do the trick?  I guess what I'm asking is if you can just put the ArPiCade image on a memory card and boot into Attract Mode and just use an iPac2 to interface with the controls.

[Mike A]

For future projects Javeryh you should just wire your cabs with a JAMMA harness.

That way you can plug and play all of these new solutions.

You could plug in a PC, Pandora's Box, Arpicade, 60 in 1, real arcade PCB.

You would have a lot more options.

I intend to start a thread regarding that soon.

[bigster]

2021: 
1. The year of the MiSter.

2. The year of more ---smurfy--- Arcade 1up de-converts, mods, etc.  Thanks Lew.

Mister for the win.  So many innovations from the jamma board to now front ends.  Perhaps we will reach a day when fpga can replace those cheap 60 in 1s running a 15 year old version of mame.

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[pbj]

Let me know when Amazon will deliver a Mister for $35 in two hours.  I do laugh that the front ends are at least 20 years out of date but people are still excited about them.  Nothing wrong with getting excited about the latest round of 'next best thing' but I've been in this so long I've seen this cycle several times now.  DOS -> Win 98 booting to DOS -> Windows 7 -> 60 in 1s -> Pi -> Mister.

[javeryh]

For future projects Javeryh you should just wire your cabs with a JAMMA harness.

That way you can plug and play all of these new solutions.

You could plug in a PC, Pandora's Box, Arpicade, 60 in 1, real arcade PCB.

You would have a lot more options.

I intend to start a thread regarding that soon.

I'd love some details on this.  I've actually never used a JAMMA harness before and would love that kind of flexibility.  There are actually lots of options out there right now for a multicade set-up - I'm just trying to figure out what works best/easiest.

[Jimbo]

For future projects Javeryh you should just wire your cabs with a JAMMA harness.

That way you can plug and play all of these new solutions.

You could plug in a PC, Pandora's Box, Arpicade, 60 in 1, real arcade PCB.

You would have a lot more options.

I intend to start a thread regarding that soon.

I have to agree.  Gone are the days I'd consider an I-Pac or other keyboard encoder.  These days I wire up for JAMMA and use a J-Pac or similar for MAME, leaving my options open for other uses should the need/want arise. 

[yotsuya]

For future projects Javeryh you should just wire your cabs with a JAMMA harness.

That way you can plug and play all of these new solutions.

You could plug in a PC, Pandora's Box, Arpicade, 60 in 1, real arcade PCB.

You would have a lot more options.

I intend to start a thread regarding that soon.

I have to agree.  Gone are the days I'd consider an I-Pac or other keyboard encoder.  These days I wire up for JAMMA and use a J-Pac or similar for MAME, leaving my options open for other uses should the need/want arise.

^^^This!

Yep, I wire everything for JAMMA and just make my own adaptors. You can get blank JAMMA finger boards easily.


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[Mike A]

I will post a thread about this sometime this weekend.

It will include the use of fingerboards.

[bobbyb13]

For future projects Javeryh you should just wire your cabs with a JAMMA harness.

That way you can plug and play all of these new solutions.

You could plug in a PC, Pandora's Box, Arpicade, 60 in 1, real arcade PCB.

You would have a lot more options.

I intend to start a thread regarding that soon.

I have to agree.  Gone are the days I'd consider an I-Pac or other keyboard encoder.  These days I wire up for JAMMA and use a J-Pac or similar for MAME, leaving my options open for other uses should the need/want arise.

^^^This!

Yep, I wire everything for JAMMA and just make my own adaptors. You can get blank JAMMA finger boards easily.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Leave it to those Japanese guys...

Unless you are going to be using analog controls for something then JAMMA does look to be the only sensible way to go as it stands today.

I'm still new, so looking forward to Mike A's thread.

[KenToad]

I really don't think Mister itself is all that innovative. It's the effort to understand and replicate the original hardware in fpga that's innovative. The Mister project and especially the De-10 nano hardware and accessories are just a shared testing platform. Fpga development definitely feels like an evolution of those exciting early days of Mame and console emulation twenty plus years ago. It's fitting that the mister interface even looks a bit like a text-based email client from the late 90's.

[opt2not]

For future projects Javeryh you should just wire your cabs with a JAMMA harness.

That way you can plug and play all of these new solutions.

You could plug in a PC, Pandora's Box, Arpicade, 60 in 1, real arcade PCB.

You would have a lot more options.

I intend to start a thread regarding that soon.

I have to agree.  Gone are the days I'd consider an I-Pac or other keyboard encoder.  These days I wire up for JAMMA and use a J-Pac or similar for MAME, leaving my options open for other uses should the need/want arise.

^^^This!

Yep, I wire everything for JAMMA and just make my own adaptors. You can get blank JAMMA finger boards easily.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Leave it to those Japanese guys...

Unless you are going to be using analog controls for something then JAMMA does look to be the only sensible way to go as it stands today.

I'm still new, so looking forward to Mike A's thread.

I’ve been telling people to wire their projects to JAMMA for literally years. Happy to see people are finally starting to listen.

As for analog, remember: some analog devices are actually wired through JAMMA. Look at the Taito spinner games, the analog signals for left and right (X and X-) are connect through the joystick directions on the jamma harness. So I wouldn’t worry too much for analog controls since there isn’t really a standard for that stuff.

[Zebidee]

I was just looking up finger boards on ebay and other online marketplaces and I kept seeing tiny skateboards that people use their fingers to play with. Holy crap, they have complete miniature skate parks available to play with. Now I'm expecting to see a Barbie & Ken roll up on their boards.

JAMMA FTW

For future projects Javeryh you should just wire your cabs with a JAMMA harness.

That way you can plug and play all of these new solutions.

You could plug in a PC, Pandora's Box, Arpicade, 60 in 1, real arcade PCB.

You would have a lot more options.

I intend to start a thread regarding that soon.

I have to agree.  Gone are the days I'd consider an I-Pac or other keyboard encoder.  These days I wire up for JAMMA and use a J-Pac or similar for MAME, leaving my options open for other uses should the need/want arise.

^^^This!

Yep, I wire everything for JAMMA and just make my own adaptors. You can get blank JAMMA finger boards easily.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Leave it to those Japanese guys...

Unless you are going to be using analog controls for something then JAMMA does look to be the only sensible way to go as it stands today.

I'm still new, so looking forward to Mike A's thread.

[Howard_Casto]

For future projects Javeryh you should just wire your cabs with a JAMMA harness.

That way you can plug and play all of these new solutions.

You could plug in a PC, Pandora's Box, Arpicade, 60 in 1, real arcade PCB.

You would have a lot more options.

I intend to start a thread regarding that soon.

I have to agree.  Gone are the days I'd consider an I-Pac or other keyboard encoder.  These days I wire up for JAMMA and use a J-Pac or similar for MAME, leaving my options open for other uses should the need/want arise.

^^^This!

Yep, I wire everything for JAMMA and just make my own adaptors. You can get blank JAMMA finger boards easily.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Leave it to those Japanese guys...

Unless you are going to be using analog controls for something then JAMMA does look to be the only sensible way to go as it stands today.

I'm still new, so looking forward to Mike A's thread.

I’ve been telling people to wire their projects to JAMMA for literally years. Happy to see people are finally starting to listen.

As for analog, remember: some analog devices are actually wired through JAMMA. Look at the Taito spinner games, the analog signals for left and right (X and X-) are connect through the joystick directions on the jamma harness. So I wouldn’t worry too much for analog controls since there isn’t really a standard for that stuff.

I get your point but just so we don't confuse the noobs spinners use an all digital signal.  They are two optical gates that send back a signal of on or off depending upon if the chopper wheel has put a wall between the emitter and receiver.  The combination of those two signals, essentially report back like two standard microswitches and the pattern of the current position is compared to the pattern of the previous position to determine if the spinner moved left, right or stayed put.

[Howard_Casto]

The crazy thing about 2021, besides the pandemic, is that there's a whole new console generation that seems like it will never be released in a way that prevents scalping. Also, that new console generation has no killer app or true innovation.

The new Xbox is so lacking innovation that I don't think the average person could tell the difference between the one that released in 2013 vs. the one that released in 2020.

Maybe the PS5 and the Xbox (2020) will be collectors' items as the lost generation of consoles?

If you are looking towards Sony and Microsoft for innovation then you are decidedly looking in the wrong direction.   Nintendo is the only company of the big three that ever tries anything new.   Sony and Microsoft are all about incremental improvements.....  This generation's console has X more processing power than the last ect.   Now that consoles can do 4k graphics we've hit a wall and companies will have to *gasp* focus on making good games and unfortunately Sony and Microsoft are kind of hit and miss in that department.   Regardless it's only a year out.... the games don't really start flowing till halfway through year two or sometimes year three.   

[dmckean]

The crazy thing about 2021, besides the pandemic, is that there's a whole new console generation that seems like it will never be released in a way that prevents scalping. Also, that new console generation has no killer app or true innovation.

The new Xbox is so lacking innovation that I don't think the average person could tell the difference between the one that released in 2013 vs. the one that released in 2020.

Maybe the PS5 and the Xbox (2020) will be collectors' items as the lost generation of consoles?

If you are looking towards Sony and Microsoft for innovation then you are decidedly looking in the wrong direction.   Nintendo is the only company of the big three that ever tries anything new.   Sony and Microsoft are all about incremental improvements.....  This generation's console has X more processing power than the last ect.   Now that consoles can do 4k graphics we've hit a wall and companies will have to *gasp* focus on making good games and unfortunately Sony and Microsoft are kind of hit and miss in that department.   Regardless it's only a year out.... the games don't really start flowing till halfway through year two or sometimes year three.

This.

Large mulit-national companies likes Sony and Microsoft are extremely risk adverse. They just want to milk their existing revenue streams for as long as possible.

[Titchgamer]

I allready mentiond 2021 is the year of the lightgun but another cool thing....

Sinden is working on PS2 as a GCON2 now to

[leapinlew]

I was Jamma Hesitant for years. I had the ipac thing figured out and computers were free at the time, so I didn't see the point. I'm still not into collecting boards, but I do like the simplicity of Jamma after the initial learning curve.