Arcade & Multimedia Briefcase - TwoGuys&TheirSticks

[Sh0t0K4n]

Hello Board,

So here's a quick introduction about our team project (Myself & Lustucruk)

We've been playing arcade in arcade room and through emulation on computer for over about 15 years now. Arcade room are getting less and less popular and numerous in Europe but also in China, probably due to more console, computer and smartphone gaming platforms. So with Lustu we got more into MAME emulation with USB Joysticks to trying replicate the feeling, and it's quite enjoyable to be honest, at right at your fingertips, pretty much anywhere you laptop can be. After few years of playing together, Lustu moved to a different area, then different city, and playing together was less and less likely to happen, when before it was a daily routine. So we've been thinking for a while to get into building a way to build a travelling arcade set, in a suitcase. After some research we've seen that (as always) already been done, in this forum i could see and also over the internet, and one in particular from a swedish guy that got pretty popular around the globe.

After long discussion with Lustucruk we thought that just being an arcade suitcase is kind of a limitation of the possibilities offered by the machine, as it would be mostly for gaming purpose and pretty much a piece that would stay in place in one or another's living room for show off. I wanted to give it a purpose, a piece of interactive, gaming, multimedia piece that you kind of want to always take with you when you travel or meet with friends. So here's a quick basic functions that we want to include in the machine:

- Arcade Gaming with Joystick for 2 players
- Other Video Games (Console Classics for Multiplayers, Mario Kart, Mario Party, Super Smash Bros, Other Fighting Games or Racing Games,...)
- Board Games (Monopoly, Risk, Trivial Pursuit, Chess,...)
- Drinking Games
- Movies
- Music
- Internet Access (Browsing, Email,...)
- Bluetooth Connectivity to play Music from someone's phone
- USB Ports for phone charging, connect extra game controllers, access external storage for music, movies,...
- Long Lasting Battery - Up to 8-12 hours of charge
- LED Touchscreen for convenient navigation

We believe that more versatile the machine will be, the more likely we will want to take it around and use it. So that's how we started our thoughts process when we met at Lustu's home few weeks ago, and moved to the actual "technical" part of it if i can say... And of course, a platform to discuss, share, ask and get feedback was more than necessary, also to track our progress and stay in line. That's how Lustucruk came along http://forum.arcadecontrols.com and here we are... We just had couple days ago a conference call to set up the base and get ready to sign up the forum and open a new Project Thread.

Enough talking, let's show you what we have so far...

Briefcase Simple Diagram:



List of Materials :






What Needs to be Done :

- Basic 3d Model of the Briefcase to arrange the parts in the smallest possible space
- Hardware selection, purchase and setup
- Confirm final dimensions
- Custom made briefcase
- Software
- Testing
- Finishing

Purpose :

"A portable Gaming & Multimedia briefcase, with great amount of details & finish, at a fair price."

-------------------------------------------------

Looking forward to get some feedback, advices and critics along the building of the project. We'll try to update the post every couple days and looking to get it done and working in the coming 2-3 months of time.
If the design and project works as planned, this gaming & multimedia briefcase will be our prototype and we're looking to have a small line production with more options (1 player options, different designs/colors, custom logo/joystick/buttons, custom interface,...)

Cheers All !

Hadoken!

[Lustucruk]

To add to my friend's post:

I wonder if anyone has had experience with a touchscreen on a raspberry pi before ?!

[javeryh]

This is an ambitious project.  For the board games you mean digital versions?  I’ll be following this - good luck!

[Lustucruk]

This is an ambitious project.  For the board games you mean digital versions?  I’ll be following this - good luck!

Yes, digital board game indeed.
Ambitious yes, and we are probably going to learn a lot as we go.

[Sh0t0K4n]

This is an ambitious project.  For the board games you mean digital versions?  I’ll be following this - good luck!

Yes indeed, but in a way I think it is best to have an ambitious project with a high standard design and functionalities.
If we can achieve a 70-80% on the first prototype it would be already great, and as Lustu was saying we will learn a lot from it for sure.
Then we'll be able with this knowledge and "learning through mistakes and problems" process to produce a very high quality Version 2.
I'm very excited about it actually, and it's good to see that you are looking forward to the progress too

Cheers!

Hadoken!

[Sh0t0K4n]

Yet another productive evening with Lustucrux...

We went over the layout of the briefcase with actual size from the material list. Lustu put in the 3d rough model the sizes and it helped us review the layout, and change our opinion about some of the elements... That's roughly how it went :

1 - Monitor (size & type)

We choose after confirming the briefcase minimal size the monitor to be a 21,5" LED touchscreen, cost: $ 55,0




2 - Power Bank (capacity, shape)




50,000mAh | 185Wh Power Bank with USB hub cost : $ 90,0

3 - Speakers (speaker bar? other options?)



We actually changed our mind and went for a 2x5W long speakers placed on both side of the power bank, near the screen still, we will also need an amplifier and a bluetooth connectivity.
2x50W Speakers cost : $ 2,5
Amplifier+bluetooth cost : $  4,0

4 - Volume and Brightness Control

As the amplifier is a bit too powerful for the speakers, we would have to lock it to 50% max, we thought we could mechanically lock it, but then the range would be pretty short, Lustu checked that we can actually just lock it to 50% mechanically and use another controller (dimmer) connected to the raspberry pi (pretty similar to laptop volume and brightness buttons), then we could as well have a dimmer for the screen brightness....

As we kept talking about it we did remember those good old amplifier, mixer tables, and old radios, i guess you all know what i'm talking about. Here's some references to refresh your memory:





So that's what we are aiming for. We decided then to start with the prototype, with maybe other simple dimmers and a rough briefcase to test the functionalities of the machine, and if everything works perfectly we will improve the dimmer design and work on a custom made high quality briefcase that could not only include the volume and brightness dimmers but as well a power charge indicator, power button, bluetooth pairing, headphones output and more...



Our chat actually finished by thinking about some different design option we could provide for the briefcase, 80's soundsystem, futuristic, design minimalistic, natural materials, steampunk, and other possibilities...

And to finish we readjusted the location of the raspberry pi on the 3d model and added a mockup (maybe not at scale) of the dimmers and power buttons...



That's all for today Folks!
We'll keep updating the post and get the 3d model with more details. Still long way to go....

And as always... Hadoken!

[javeryh]

Whatever you do, DO NOT install the joysticks at an angle like you are showing in your mockup. Please.

[yotsuya]

Whatever you do, DO NOT install the joysticks at an angle like you are showing in your mockup. Please.

He’s right. Don’t argue or overthink it, just listen to the man.


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[Sh0t0K4n]

Thank you both for the feedback ! 

Whatever you do, DO NOT install the joysticks at an angle like you are showing in your mockup. Please.

Could you explain why?
We were thinking that two players (shoulders and arms) too close to each one other would affect the gameplay comfort, so instead of pushing the joysticks further apart and add to the length of the briefcase, a slight angle would solve this issue...

He’s right. Don’t argue or overthink it, just listen to the man.

So tell me what didn't we think about? Is angled joystick is affecting the game play? Do you recommend a straight side by side layout? if so, do you know the minimum space between the joysticks for comfortable game play?

Shall we go for something like this instead ?

[dmckean]

You're overthinking it. Up should always be pushing the joystick towards the screen.

The end.

[javeryh]

How would a player know which way was up if not directly towards the screen?  Press the joystick at a 17 degree angle to jump is not how you want to set this up.

[vertexguy]

Interesting concept!

I think you should consider pushing the layout to be more like P3 and P4 on a 4 player cab layout to get you more player space.  That means you encourage players to be angled more to the side than front on when playing.  The stick on the far left would be more above the buttons (picture rotating your P1 controls almost 90 degrees clockwise.. maybe less like 60 degrees...prototype it on cardboard).  Then the same concept on the other side with counter clockwise rotation.  With both players angled like that you might be able to practically fit 2 people in that tight of a proximity and play a relatively unsquished experience.... and yes, you still want to press the stick straight up to the screen for upward movement...not angled.  Good luck playing a game like Street Fighter 2 in 2 player mode with awkwardly angled sticks.

[Sh0t0K4n]

How would a player know which way was up if not directly towards the screen?  Press the joystick at a 17 degree angle to jump is not how you want to set this up.

You're overthinking it. Up should always be pushing the joystick towards the screen.

The end.

Ok I get your point here guys, we'll adjust accordingly and keep it straight then.

I guess we'll try to play with some USB joysticks and try to get as close as possible to each other and see how much space is needed.
Or does anyone has a "close but comfortable" 2 joysticks layout with measurements available ? that might save us some time trying 
I remember Lustucrux did show me a website that reference all kinds of Josticks layout...

Interesting concept!

I think you should consider pushing the layout to be more like P3 and P4 on a 4 player cab layout to get you more player space.  That means you encourage players to be angled more to the side than front on when playing.  The stick on the far left would be more above the buttons (picture rotating your P1 controls almost 90 degrees clockwise).  Then the same concept on the other side with counter clockwise rotation.  With both players angled like that you might be able to practically fit 2 people in that tight of a proximity and play a relatively unsquished experience.... and yes, you still want to press the stick straight up to the screen for upward movement...not angled.  Good luck playing a game like Street Fighter 2 in 2 player mode with awkwardly angled sticks.

Yeah that was the original idea, not to face the screen directly but to have a slight angle (20-30 degrees) so we wouldn't but each others shoulder.




So that could be an option but keeping the joystick facing the screen, we'll really get into this and review the layout.

Anyway, thanks again guys for the input, we'll update this very soon

Hadoken!

[yotsuya]

You're overthinking it. Up should always be pushing the joystick towards the screen.

The end.

^^^ So much this!


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[Sh0t0K4n]

Yes almost all the 2 players joystick are lined up straight, i've seen couple arcade cabinets with angled joystick, or as you said vertexguy, the 4 players P3 & P4 position. After thinking through it, if we go for an angled position for the players, i can't see the joystick "UP" facing straight to the screen...
So here the options...

1 Straight



2 Angled



3 Angled but facing the screen (which i think makes no sense, or i misunderstood something)



Here's a reference of a 4 player joystick, i would set it up as the far right and far left layout (player 3 & 4)



The real question would be :
Players can play in an angled position with straight joystick facing the screen



Players can play in an angled position with angled joystick



Which one would be the most comfortable ?

Because I don't think we want to keep the players facing straight the screen, unless we would have to almost double the length of the briefcase...



Thank you all for the great feedback, we do really appreciate it

[dmckean]

3 Angled but facing the screen (which i think makes no sense, or i misunderstood something)

This works.

Your reference should be The Simpsons or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles control panel. It doesn't matter which way the player's body is facing, up should always be the screen.

[vertexguy]

3 Angled but facing the screen (which i think makes no sense, or i misunderstood something)

This works.

Your reference should be The Simpsons or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles control panel. It doesn't matter which way the player's body is facing, up should always be the screen.

I second this.  This is what I was trying to describe.  The layout is rotated but underneath the joystick stays straight.  Only other idea would be some high tech floating control shelves that extends and maybe even rotates that the controls sit on to basically unfold to a larger play area and transform to fit back in the case.

[PL1]

+1 and obligatory reminder when the subject of angled joysticks comes up.

Green is good.  Red is bad.



http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/FAQ#Orientation

It is important to note that joysticks should always be mounted parallel to the screen since it is intuitive for a player to move the joystick in relation to the action on the screen. This might seem not obvious in 4-player designs, but experience has proved that this holds true even if the player is standing diagonal towards the screen. Therefore it is advised not to angle joysticks for players 3 and 4. P3, P1, and P2 joysticks are shown parallel, while P4 joystick is shown angled.

Scott

[Sh0t0K4n]

+1 and obligatory reminder when the subject of angled joysticks comes up.

Green is good.  Red is bad.



http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/FAQ#Orientation

It is important to note that joysticks should always be mounted parallel to the screen since it is intuitive for a player to move the joystick in relation to the action on the screen. This might seem not obvious in 4-player designs, but experience has proved that this holds true even if the player is standing diagonal towards the screen. Therefore it is advised not to angle joysticks for players 3 and 4. P3, P1, and P2 joysticks are shown parallel, while P4 joystick is shown angled.

Scott

Thank you Scott and to all of you for the great Feedback.
That's exactly why we are here, to receive some input and advices.
Even if it looks weird in the first place, and a common mistake i believe, we learn that experience has proved it, and we will follow the board advice on this one for sure. I guess we shouldn't angle the joystick much either for better experience. 20-30 degrees angle should do.

Thanks you so much to all of you !!!!

Hadoken!

[javeryh]

Yes almost all the 2 players joystick are lined up straight, i've seen couple arcade cabinets with angled joystick, or as you said vertexguy, the 4 players P3 & P4 position.

The ones that you have seen are installed incorrectly.  It is becoming/is a problem because many commercial vendors that charge thousands of dollars for 4P cabinets angle the P3 and P4 sticks and it is wrong.  Then you have all the people who bought them saying it is “personal preference” or whatever to justify their purchase.  No 4P cabinet from back in the day angled the sticks.  If you tried it out you would immediately realize it’s not right.  Almost everything in this hobby is personal preference... but not the angle of the joysticks.

[PL1]

No 4P cabinet from back in the day angled the sticks.

Well . . . that's not 100% accurate.
- There were very few that did, and those titles were not well received.
Related thread: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,87347.msg1301886.html#msg1301886

That said, it would be correct to claim that all of the popular 4P games from back in the day used un-angled P3/P4 sticks.   

There were even some 2-player titles that angled the sticks, specifically Virtua Fighter and Virtua Fighter 2.   
- Offered as proof of that assertion, a picture from the VF2 manual.


This is a case of not everything being 100% monolithic -- some companies did things that stood the test of time and some did things that did not.


Scott

[javeryh]

No 4P cabinet from back in the day angled the sticks.

Well . . . that's not 100% accurate.
- There were very few that did, and those titles were not well received.
Related thread: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,87347.msg1301886.html#msg1301886

That said, it would be correct to claim that all of the popular 4P games from back in the day used un-angled P3/P4 sticks.   

There were even some 2-player titles that angled the sticks, specifically Virtua Fighter and Virtua Fighter 2.   
- Offered as proof of that assertion, a picture from the VF2 manual.


This is a case of not everything being 100% monolithic -- some companies did things that stood the test of time and some did things that did not.


Scott

yeah I should have said no popular/successful game angled the sticks.  I knew about VF and VF2 and some of the others but those are such outliers and so poorly received that it's not worth mentioning.  Most people that have their minds set on angling the sticks will feel validated if they can find one example... whether it works or not.  It's easy enough to test if OP isn't sure.  Just try playing Q*bert with a standard stick but angle your body 45 degrees - it's so silly you can immediately realize that the stick is an extension of the movement on the screen, not an extension of the player.

[Lustucruk]

Valuable feedback around here! 
I can start to understand why angled stick could be a problem. I'll test some games with straight vs angled setup to get a first-hand feel for it.
Cheers

[yotsuya]

Valuable feedback around here! 
I can start to understand why angled stick could be a problem. I'll test some games with straight vs angled setup to get a first-hand feel for it.
Cheers

Test all you want, it doesn’t change anything. Even if you get used to them angled, the first time a guest sits down and plays with it and with a push-up to go up and it doesn’t do what they wanted to do, they’re going to get frustrated and quit.

There’s plenty of first-hand testimony in these forums that show that it is so. You can angle the buttons, but leave the joysticks pointing up.


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[fablog]

I used the Sega layout p1 and the next one for p2 in my cabinet. : https://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/layout.html

I'm happy with this choice because each player play comfortably with an angle.

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